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Thread: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

  1. #161
    Locky's Avatar Suguchi
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    Quote Originally Posted by HopliteGlory
    Very bright insight Snev, interesting way to put Sparta and Athens into perspective.
    Yeah. Also one most remeber, that Sparta had basically lost what little power it had left, by 100BC, whilst Athens was still held as Acedamic strong point in Greece, having Economic and strong social standing under the Romans. Although Sparta did prosper and did countinue thier old laws, they were a "tourist attraction" to Rome, the Romans did not understand thier way of life at all. Both cities had thier place, though. Just looking at the Pelopenessian wars, Athens had a larger "empire", a incredibly strong naval influence, a respectable well standing army, and competent commanders(for the most part). It was financially superior to all other Greek city states, and held hemogeny over it's "allies".

    Sparta on the other hand is another slice of cake. It had a small "empire", that consisted of "allies", and subjectated Greek cities, in Lacedaemonia. All Spartan ciyizens recived agoge, traiing, which basically made them fully professional soldiers, leaving all other aspects of Spartas managment to dwellers about, and helots. Sparta held an incredibly powerful military pressence on land, been nothing short of unbeatable, had respectable leadership, and an average navy, financially, it was secure(during the course of the wars, did Spartan govenors have certain obsessions with wealth).

    During the course of the war, both sides, belt the crap out've each other, to put it bluntly, finally after a sneak attack destroyed Athens navy, did the war tilt into the balance of Sparta. Athens was forced to surrender lost all it's land holdings, etc. However Spartans really lacked the ability to manage a large empire, with such wealth, they had inherrited. Spartans made for poor managers for governing Greek cities, that had different goverment established, which conflicted with thier own, people revotled, soon Thebes came to rise, and Sparta lost it's grip on Hellas. Both Athens and Sparta had thier ultimate strong points, in all regards, they were quite powerful by themselfs. But one thing they both wanted, which neither could attain, which was power. Sparta wanted to be master of Hellas, as did the Atheniens. However in the process of the war, both sides had effectively destroyed each other. The fact remains, Sparta and Athens, would've been far graeter if they worked together, in fact, they couldn't really function without each other, and after Sparta won the Pelopenessian wars, and threw Hellas into a mess. It was the end of Greece's glory, and it wasn't the war that had destroyed them. It was their greed, both wanted something that wasn't theirs to take, and in the process, of trying to attain it, they both destroyed themselfs.

    See, if they worked together, who knows how history could've unfolded. They both thier own strong points, if were combined, it would make for an interesting empire.

    I agree with Snev. They were both very different, but quite similer in an odd way.

  2. #162
    Shqiponja_Hayabusa's Avatar Sōkō no yari
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    Is it true that the spartiate number never reached more than 2000 at least during the peleponesean war?


    xhaxhi Skenderbeu

  3. #163
    Locky's Avatar Suguchi
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    Quote Originally Posted by Shqiponja_Hayabusa
    Is it true that the spartiate number never reached more than 2000 at least during the peleponesean war?
    It reached 8000 at it's glory, by the Peloponessian wars, there was about a couple of thousand, by 300BC barely 700, by 200BC holding onto 300.

  4. #164
    Lavastein's Avatar Akaboshi
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    so will the city of sparta lack the population boom that most cities achieve? what will their population look like in game?
    Without a sign, his sword the brave man draws, and asks no omen but his country's cause

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  5. #165
    Locky's Avatar Suguchi
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    Quote Originally Posted by Lavastein
    so will the city of sparta lack the population boom that most cities achieve? what will their population look like in game?
    They had over 200000 Helots, and about 20000 Perikorio.

  6. #166
    Snevets's Avatar Chinen
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    Quote Originally Posted by Locky
    They had over 200000 Helots, and about 20000 Perikorio.
    Within the city Sparta itself??? Try 3000-4000 altogether.


    Believe in Hegemonia... Or the Megarian will get you.

  7. #167
    Lavastein's Avatar Akaboshi
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    so in game they will have 3000 persons?
    Without a sign, his sword the brave man draws, and asks no omen but his country's cause

    Liberalism is a mental disorder


  8. #168
    Snevets's Avatar Chinen
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    Where other capitals will start as a small city sparta will start as a large town. The exact population it will have, I don't yet know.


    Believe in Hegemonia... Or the Megarian will get you.

  9. #169
    Phaylanx's Avatar Yoshihara
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    i was wondering(if this hasnt been asked because im too lazy to read each thread) will the spartan symbol on the sheild for the royal guard be changed to the /\? because me and that face on the sheild dont see eye to eye sorry if this has been asked and 1 more question will they all be barefoot? :hmmm:

  10. #170
    Racer X's Avatar Suguchi
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    will the spartan symbol on the sheild for the royal guard be changed to the /\?
    No, because it is historically inaccurate.

    As for the barefeet, I'm not sure and noone is 100% sure that they fought barefoot anyway.

  11. #171
    spirit_of_rob's Avatar The force is my ally
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    The new ones have a different symbol but it is not been changed to the Lambda no,

    erm yeah they are barefooted i think
    Former Skinner/Modeller for EB Former Skinner/Modeller for Hegemonia


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  13. #173
    Racer X's Avatar Suguchi
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    Do they still have bell cuirasses, or does at least one of them have a tighter fighting muscle cuirass?

  14. #174
    Phaylanx's Avatar Yoshihara
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    hey one more question will the royal guard send fear to their enemies? you know scare them or strike fear into their hearts? also i dont think they should be barefoot because why would you go into battle wearing nothing to protect your feet? what if you step on pointy rock?=ouch and their are more lethal things on a battle field that you can step on spear heads arrow heads etc and in the heat of battle one wrong step could mean death or youll be fighting with a ackward limp. o yeah and i think the royal guard should have the ripped armor! and sandals

  15. #175
    El Muerte's Avatar Chinen
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    Quote Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
    No, because it is historically inaccurate.

    As for the barefeet, I'm not sure and noone is 100% sure that they fought barefoot anyway.
    What do you mean it's historically inaccurate?!?
    Every book or link i read, says Spartans had /\ written on aspis.They are first among all Hellas who had uniforms.All traces of individuality were stripped, same goes for familly symbols on their shields.
    I would like very much to see your sources 'cos this is totaly new for me.
    And they didn't fight barefoot btw.They trained that way but they weared shoes (sandals) made from tick bull's leather wich allowed them to march even over the fire.look it this way...if they fought barefoot then the enemy would surely exploit that by setting ground on fire.....

    Anyway guys i totaly don't understand why there is no /\ on Spartans shields...
    It's symbol of their ancient town Lacedaemon, (Greek Λακεδαίμων).
    If you found something wich no doubtedly proofs different...i would be very interested to see it...
    Last edited by El Muerte; November 21, 2006 at 08:34 AM.
    [URL=http://imageshack.us]

  16. #176
    spirit_of_rob's Avatar The force is my ally
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    The uniform lambda was introduced in the mid 5th Century prior to this they had individual blazons and dont ask me for the evidence not my department i just know thats right as this has been asked on no small number of occasions.

    As for the sandals i dont know but if the ground was on fire in a country as dry as Greece i wouldnt have thought sandals would have done you much good lol
    Former Skinner/Modeller for EB Former Skinner/Modeller for Hegemonia


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  17. #177
    El Muerte's Avatar Chinen
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    LoL they didnt stayed in fire They just run over it quickly
    You say 5th century BC right? Thats in time of Peleponesian Wars, so that means they had /\ on their shields.Thats time period in the game right? So why familly insignias? And don't forget that bunch of heads on shields look rather dull, while pattern of /\ looks very nice and powerful.Think about it.
    Don't get offended mate i don't mean to teach you guys how to do your job, i just say all this as average player what I would like to see.I think others will agree with me on this one.

    All this talk about symbols reminded me to this story:

    There was young Spartan soldier, he drew a fly - his familly isignia, but he drew it in its natural size
    When all the other fellow soldiers mocked him, making jokes, that they can't see it properly not to mention that the enemy wont see it from a distance,
    the young Spartan replied that he's planning to get so close to the enemy, that to them little fly will be big as lion
    Last edited by El Muerte; November 21, 2006 at 01:21 PM.
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  18. #178
    malibu.stacey's Avatar Yoshihara
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    And don't forget that bunch of heads on shields look rather dull, while pattern of /\ looks very nice and powerful.Think about it.

    Bunch of heads, he? Compare the scorpions and bulls on the shields with a /\ and then tell me what looks powerfull and what looks rather dull.


    DONT REPLACE THE SCORPIONS PLEASE!


    btw, nice story, muerte

  19. #179
    spirit_of_rob's Avatar The force is my ally
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    yes the mid 5th century they changed to the lambda we chose to depict the Spartans as they fought at Thermoplae and the rest of the Persian Wars therefore no lambda
    Former Skinner/Modeller for EB Former Skinner/Modeller for Hegemonia


    Patrician Opifex under the patronage of Basileos Leandros I and patron of the Opifex Tone

  20. #180
    Phaylanx's Avatar Yoshihara
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    Default Re: Faction Preview No 7: Sparta

    so they do wear sandals? will you guys change it now? so they wont be barefoot instead they'll have sandals! if so YAY! if not awwwww and i like the lambda better then the head and i agree with murete it is kinda dull no offense please dont blam me

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