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Thread: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

  1. #1
    mrcrusty's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    Decided to make this thread as there's a little bit of Bottleneck-phobia going around the Shogun II forums recently. I thought about posting this in The Basement, but it would undoubtedly get more views (and do more good) here.

    What is a Bottleneck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    A bottleneck is a phenomenon where the performance or capacity of an entire system is limited by a single or limited number of components or resources. The term bottleneck is taken from the 'assets are water' metaphor. As water is poured out of a bottle, the rate of outflow is limited by the width of the conduit of exit - that is, bottleneck. By increasing the width of the bottleneck one can increase the rate at which the water flows out. Such limiting components of a system are sometimes referred to as bottleneck points.

    What does this mean?

    In simple terms, this refers to a system not being able to optimum levels because one (or more) components are holding it back.

    I like to say that CPU bottleneck is like a roof. The power of your CPU determines how high the roof is.

    What is CPU Bottleneck in games and why does it happen?

    In games, a CPU bottleneck refers to the how the processor holds back the graphics card(s) from rendering more frames each second. The graphics card is not fully utilised and as such, you don't get full performance from your system.

    This happens because in addition to all the visual rendering done by the graphics card, there is plenty of internal processing done by the CPU corresponding to what is going on inside the game. Physics is a particularly noticeable example, which is why PhysX (Nvidia's proprietary GPU-accelerated Physics method) is such a big marketing gimmick.

    Why do people say that CPU Bottleneck is bigger at low resolutions?

    Because it is.

    All of the calculations that the CPU needs to do remain static regardless of the resolution. This is because the internal calculation process that the CPU has to do inside a game is dependent on what goes on in the game, and not how big the screen is.

    As your resolution gets larger, the GPU has to render more pixels which affects performance. Simply put the larger the resolution, the more powerful your GPU needs to be to keep equal framerates with the same settings.

    That means, that as your resolution gets the larger, the less the CPU matters to bottleneck. No matter the resolution, CPU load stays the same, while GPU load increases.

    So, am I affected by CPU Bottleneck?

    Everyone is affected by CPU bottleneck.

    The question is "how badly am I affected by CPU bottleneck?" and "does it noticeably impact on my gameplay experience?"

    I previously said that CPU bottleneck is like a roof. If your CPU is powerful enough, then the roof is high enough for a good and smooth gameplay experience.

    So, is CPU bottlenecking the reason of my low framerates? How do I find out?

    If your CPU is based on the LGA 1155 (2nd gen. Intel Core i3/5/7), LGA 1156 (1st gen. Intel Core i3/5/7), LGA 1366 (1st gen. Intel Core i7) or on the AMD AM3 sockets (Athlon II x3/x4 and Phenom II x2/x3/x4/x6), then CPU bottleneck is unlikely to be the cause of your low framerates.

    If your CPU is older or weaker than the above mentioned CPUs, then test the game at an extremely low resolution. If your framerates improve, then CPU bottleneck is not your issue. If framerates stay the same, then CPU bottleneck could be your issue.

    Note that it takes an incredibly old and/or weak CPU to provide a game crippling bottleneck, and there are plenty of driver or game related issues that could be the cause of your problem. This is particularly true if you are using one of the newer processors I listed above.

    I use more than one GPU, will I encounter a CPU Bottleneck?


    I'm getting a little lazy, but there is a very good (if a little old) analysis that deals with exactly this.

    http://benchmarkextreme.com/Articles...alysis/P1.html

    Summary: You best be overclockin', son.

    So how do I combat CPU Bottleneck?

    Overclocking. That's an entirely different issue altogether and I don't recommend anyone doing it without reading up on it first.

    But overclocking is the primary way, outside of a better CPU to reduce CPU bottleneck in games.

    I have a question and/or comment.

    Feel free to post them here. If I'm not too busy or lazy, I'll try and respond to each query.
    Last edited by mrcrusty; February 25, 2011 at 09:15 PM.


  2. #2
    murder_mayhem's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    Hey, not the greatest with computers so I just posted this from http://www.systemrequirementslab.com and I just wanted to know your opinion on where I should upgrade and possibly any possible suggestions to get the best bang for my buck from tiger direct

    I don't have that much cash on hand as I am currently saving for university so I would say a limit for me would be about $100 +/- a bit.

    CPU
    Recommended: 2nd Generation Intel Core™i5 processor (or greater), or AMD equivalent
    You Have: AMD Phenom(tm) 8400 Triple-Core Processor
    Upgrade Suggested: Unfortunately, your CPU does not meet this requirement. Click here to see some recommendations.

    RAM
    Recommended: 2 GB RAM (XP), 4 GB RAM (Vista / Windows7)
    You Have: 3.0 GB
    Upgrade Suggested: Unfortunately, your RAM does not meet this requirement. Click here to see some recommendations.

    OS
    Recommended: Windows 7 / Vista / XP
    You Have: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition Service Pack 2 (build 6002), 32-bit
    PASS

    Video Card
    Recommended: AMD Radeon HD 5000 and 6000 series graphics cards or equivalent DirectX 11 compatible graphics card
    You Have: ATI Radeon HD 2400 PRO
    Upgrade Suggested: Unfortunately, your Video Card does not meet this requirement. Click here to see some recommendations.
    Features: Recommended attributes of your Video Card

    Required:
    Video RAM 512 MB
    Hardware T&L Yes
    Pixel Shader version 3.0
    Vertex Shader version 3.0

    You Have:
    Video RAM 1.5 GB
    Hardware T&L Yes
    Pixel Shader version 4.0
    Vertex Shader version 4.0

    Free Disk Space
    Recommended: 20 GB
    You Have: 170.2 GB
    PASS

    And thanks in advance, these were taken under the recommended section by the way
    Quote Originally Posted by Central Asian Qaghan View Post
    My condolences to any Muslims hurt in this attack.

  3. #3
    mrcrusty's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    What resolution will you be playing at?

    Still, I don't think that's enough money.

    Here is a very good stop gap solution.

    It should provide good framerates and settings at lower resolutions, provided your CPU doesn't bottleneck it too much.

    However, I would recommend saving up your money for a more substantial upgrade down the line.

    What power supply do you have?

    Just open up your case and give me the details on the side of the power supply.

    Like this:



    But obviously not upside down.

    Quote Originally Posted by CtrlAltDe1337 View Post
    Nice post, somewhat off topic though: is there an ingame command to check FPS or do I need something like fraps to do that?
    Some games have it, but none of the TW games do as far as I know. Just use Fraps.

    You don't need to buy it, the free version allows you to monitor FPS.
    Last edited by mrcrusty; February 25, 2011 at 11:13 PM.


  4. #4
    CtrlAltDe1337's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    Nice post, somewhat off topic though: is there an ingame command to check FPS or do I need something like fraps to do that?


  5. #5

    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    Thanks for this mrcrusty! I have certainly been displaying traits of "bottleneck-phobia" lately, so this post is very appreciated here. My CPU is a 1st gen. core i7 based on the LGA 1366 so per your comment above, I am unlikely to be experiencing a CPU bottleneck. (even though I just made a major gpu upgrade from 2x 9800GTs to 2x HD6870s?)

    However you also mentioned that if you are using 2 GPUs, you need to be overclocking... I will have to read up on this before I go and do it, but everything I have read so far says overclocking the i7 shouldn't be that tough.

    Anyway, I'm still wondering what my issue is with very low framerates on ultra settings. Is the TWS2 demo that intense on my machine? Did drivercleaner.net not do a good job clearing out my old Nvidia drivers? So many possibilities for issues...

    Anyway, thanks for the info, will read into your post in more detail and hopefully sort it all out.

  6. #6
    mrcrusty's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Lotz View Post
    Thanks for this mrcrusty! I have certainly been displaying traits of "bottleneck-phobia" lately, so this post is very appreciated here. My CPU is a 1st gen. core i7 based on the LGA 1366 so per your comment above, I am unlikely to be experiencing a CPU bottleneck. (even though I just made a major gpu upgrade from 2x 9800GTs to 2x HD6870s?)

    However you also mentioned that if you are using 2 GPUs, you need to be overclocking... I will have to read up on this before I go and do it, but everything I have read so far says overclocking the i7 shouldn't be that tough.

    Anyway, I'm still wondering what my issue is with very low framerates on ultra settings. Is the TWS2 demo that intense on my machine? Did drivercleaner.net not do a good job clearing out my old Nvidia drivers? So many possibilities for issues...

    Anyway, thanks for the info, will read into your post in more detail and hopefully sort it all out.
    TBH I just think you're unlucky. Does it happen with other games too.


  7. #7

    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    ALIENWARE!
    Who likes Quitters????
    Vote now at: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=425721




    Steam ID: Niccolo' Machiavelli

  8. #8
    Dynamo11's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    No bottleneck for me! Got Phenom II x4 Oc'd to 3.8 gHz and ATi Radeon HD 5770


  9. #9

    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo11 View Post
    No bottleneck for me! Got Phenom II x4 Oc'd to 3.8 gHz and ATi Radeon HD 5770
    correct! now is a 580 + 920 @4ghz a bottleneck @1920x1200?

    +rep for the OP. great stuff and you got my backing for an informative and helpfull post.

  10. #10
    Chopy's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Totalheadache View Post
    correct! now is a 580 + 920 @4ghz a bottleneck @1920x1200?
    U kidding ? ofc not

    Testing cpu bottleneck is simple if lowering your resolution doesn't give noticeable improvement in fps than your cpu is bottlenecking gpu

  11. #11

    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    Ok guys i really need some help from u.
    The demo of shogun 2 works flaweleslly except when i zoom in on large blobs of units fighting...which drops my framerate at 5-20( like the big arm ies fighting in the historical battle)
    Now im really afraid my cpu is bottlenecking me but i have a strange widescreen monitor that works well only on it s native resolution......1400x900...which is also the highest.
    Anything lower it messes things up in all games.

    So the question is do u think theoretically i should have this problem with my computer or is it demo optimization related?
    My specs are:
    Core 2 Duo E8650 at 3 Ghz
    4 GB RAM
    Nvidia 460 GTX 1 GB ddr5
    Windows 7

    Edit: I run everything on ultra btw as this was the default setup anyways and i get superb performance from all other games


    Thanks in advance

  12. #12
    Chopy's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaliku View Post
    Ok guys i really need some help from u.
    The demo of shogun 2 works flaweleslly except when i zoom in on large blobs of units fighting...which drops my framerate at 5-20( like the big arm ies fighting in the historical battle)
    Now im really afraid my cpu is bottlenecking me but i have a strange widescreen monitor that works well only on it s native resolution......1400x900...which is also the highest.
    Anything lower it messes things up in all games.

    So the question is do u think theoretically i should have this problem with my computer or is it demo optimization related?
    My specs are:
    Core 2 Duo E8650 at 3 Ghz
    4 GB RAM
    Nvidia 460 GTX 1 GB ddr5
    Windows 7

    Edit: I run everything on ultra btw as this was the default setup anyways and i get superb performance from all other games


    Thanks in advance
    As we know Demo utilizes only 2 cores (after update) it used only 1 prior that.
    So it shouldn't bottleneck your gpu theoretically , but at the same time gtx460 should perform marvelously at such resolution. Most likely it's unoptimized demo versions fault , but if it is not than your cpu's.If full version will take advantage of quad cores than your cpu will be bottlenecking.

  13. #13
    GasMask's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    No problems on my laptop all high settings my FPS is around 32-63.

  14. #14
    Chopy's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    So i tested game on 1280x720 and 1920x1080.I have quad-core amd phenom2 945 on 3.6ghz , performance was exactly the same.So game bottlenecks itself by only using 2 cores , if full version will utilize quad cores most of us quadcore users will see noticeable improvement in framerate.

  15. #15

    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harunobu View Post
    U kidding ? ofc not

    Testing cpu bottleneck is simple if lowering your resolution doesn't give noticeable improvement in fps than your cpu is bottlenecking gpu
    actually am sure if i pushed 4.2ghz i'd get a few more fps. hence there is still a bottleneck or for use of a different anology my perf will improve (in certain games).

    bottlenecking is rather mis-used and i think thats why people get confused by it.

  16. #16
    Chopy's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    Here is something from official forum

    DX11: You can expect a major leap in graphical quality and performance. DX11 allows tessalation which will be applied to character models allowing a massive increase in geometry detail with less performance hit. This could and may also be used on terrain in and outside of the battle map. It also allows direct compute and physics enabling complex particle interaction such as volumetric clouds and fog that swirls when a horse runs through it for example, banners that ripple and move realistically when carried or when there is a wind along with particle effects such as dust and smoke, water effects such as dynamic interactive splashing when a soldier walks through a puddle/river. You can also expect substantially better quality shading/lighting with less performance hit, more light sources (like lanterns the troops hold and how the light interacts with the models geometry) and much improved performance for visuals with CPU's with more then 2 cores.


    This makes me optimistic , apparently as far as i understand dx9 and dx10 will use 2 cores , but dx11 will use 3-4

  17. #17

    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harunobu View Post
    So i tested game on 1280x720 and 1920x1080.I have quad-core amd phenom2 945 on 3.6ghz , performance was exactly the same.So game bottlenecks itself by only using 2 cores , if full version will utilize quad cores most of us quadcore users will see noticeable improvement in framerate.
    right now try raising your cpu speed or lowering your cpu speed and testing again. what happens to your fps?

    up or down?

  18. #18
    GasMask's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    Just a question DX11 is not in the demo right ?

  19. #19
    Chopy's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    Quote Originally Posted by ♔MASK OF GAS♔ View Post
    Just a question DX11 is not in the demo right ?
    yep only dx9

    Quote Originally Posted by Totalheadache View Post
    right now try raising your cpu speed or lowering your cpu speed and testing again. what happens to your fps?

    up or down?
    i will try a bit later today and report

  20. #20
    Dragooon's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: CPU Bottleneck - What is it, and how it affects your games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harunobu View Post
    This makes me optimistic , apparently as far as i understand dx9 and dx10 will use 2 cores , but dx11 will use 3-4
    DX11 should not affect CPU, its only related to GPU.

    I got a Q9550 3.57Ghz + HD5850, no bottleneck for me! To be honest, this is a game that eats both CPU and GPU equally, it is a very hungry game!

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