The BIG problem with NTW...Absurd unit formations

[RaZor HeaD]

Unit formations during the Napoleonic era were a function of linear geometry. That is to say, the shape of units was very! important at this time. And units like Regiments and Battalions were by necessity almost always configured into column shapes.

There were two reasons for this.
1) The musket was wildly inaccurate, and therefore the only way to make it useful in a combat situation was to fire it en-mass from a group of soldiers. In fact, there was no such thing as "ready, aim, fire" during this period. The order given was actually "ready, present arms, fire." Why? Because to aim at anything with this weapon was a complete waste of time, and so instead - you presented it, or in other words, simply pointed it at your enemy.
2) An amorphous mass of soldiers firing inaccurate muskets doesn't have much combat power (and would also tend to fire into their own ranks). Therefore, commanders of the time were forced to assemble their men into lines. A line, however, is not only a very unwieldy thing to maneuver around a battle field, it's also a difficult thing to retain command over and keep in order. Additionally, a line is also easily penetrated by a charging force because it lacks any depth.

Because of the above, most countries formed their units into easily commanded columns that could be quickly organized, swiftly maneuvered, and had the mass to either absorb a charge or deliver one. Britain and France were the only two notable exceptions. England, with her exceptional army discipline, was able to maintain and control a 2 deep line, something which no other country in the world would even attempt. Napoleon favored what he called the Mixed Order (Orde de Mix). This was a 5 deep line with a standard column on either side anchoring the flanks. But even these two nations would utilize the basic column formation a significant fraction of the time.

Unfortunately, NTW doesn't model this at all, and you'll commonly see countries like Spain (whose units had notoriously bad discipline) fielding entire armies in 2 deep line formations...Preposterous!
And most ridiculous of all, even if you take a column (with its' inherent huge mass and momentum) and charge one of these comical 2 deep lines, not only don't you break through the 2 deep enemy line, but you'll actually get enveloped by it!...Absurd!

[Adjudant-Major]

Hello,

generally you are correct, and this game is not about the napoleonic wars ; the essential points of the infantry, cavalry or artillery tactics are not there at all, maybe the game engine would not even allow them, but I would rather say the creators were just lazy and/or did not ask for advice. So... instead of open columns, correct skirmish chains, echelons, massed columns, changements de front, deployment of massed columns... that do not exist in the game, we do have grenadiers throwing grenades or cavalry is "diamond" formation... what the hell. A 5 year old child might come up with this kind of ideas...

You would not be correct about the british infantry being the only one to maneuver in 2 ranks ; 2 ranks appear already in the french instruction of 1788, and it actually was (and is) easier to maneuver in 2 ranks. That's why the french national guard battalions, dressed according to the instruction "de M. de Noaille" (1st january 1791) - a simplified variant of the 1776 ordonnance, were formed in 2 ranks. In october 1813, Napoleon issued an order to his infantry regiments to form in 2 ranks only. There were more reasons for that, but the main one, unofficial but the most true, was to appear stronger. Etc. Austrian infantry, for example, and prussian as well, took skirmishers from the 3rd rank, the other two ranks stayed in... 2 ranks

The difference between the formation in 2 and 3 ranks has been widely discussed mainly in the 1820's, 1830's and 1840's in France... there were many different points of view, important arguments for 2 ranks, but important arguments for 3 ranks as well. The french infantry formed in 3 ranks as late as in 1858, the austrian infantry passed definetly to 2 ranks in 1860's, etc. The things are not so easy, and mainly - this question is important, but not decisive, as tactics and art of war may never be reduced to simple mathematics, there are much more elements that influence the outcome of combat.

It also would not be true that Napoleon favored mixed order in 5 lines (?). The idea of mixed order was there, of course, but you would not see it at Austerlitz, at Jena, at Wagram... I mean the classical basic represenation of 3 battalions, the center one in line, with two in columns. We should rather talk about flexibility and formation of the troops according to the terrain, ennemy position and battle plan. At the moment N. begun to form his army in rigid formations, ceased to maneuver and favoured the frontal attacks, his cause was lost.

The problem of N:TW is that these amazing questions are totally left behind. There is nothing positive I might say about this game. There are errors and mistakes and absurdities everywhere... uniforms, formations, sound... is it really so difficult, today, to find what were the real basic commands used in the respective armies ? I really hate to hear "c'est sa cervelle, nétoyez moi ça" every 30 seconds or "mettez-vous à couvert, imbéciles"... ??? WHY ??? would an infantry officer EVER say that in real napoleonic action ? How would his "imbéciles" execute such "order" ??? )

What is "état-major des généraux, monsieur" ??? ) I can understand this kind of unit in Rome Total War... what the hell is that doing in here ?

The infantry fire is ridiculous, the cavalry fire is even worse. The uniforms... would you imagine a Star Wars game with incorrect stormtrooper equipement ? The fans would refuse it... in "historical" games, everything is possible.

No, this game is awful...

[cinco]

I sometimes wonder what goes on in their research department. This information is freely available. It's not controversial, as in every source says the same thing, yet in the game it's completely ignored. instead we have fantasy systems.

I'm really quite puzzled to be honest.

[RaZor HeaD]

@ Adjudant-Major.
Great points all!
Unfortunately, my Napoleonic history stems from days long gone playing 16mm painted lead miniatures and reading through the books of that time to get the Regimental colors right on the units. I do seem to remember that British units were the only regular line units allowed to form in 2 deep ranks, but I'm sure that you're correct in that there were some general exceptions.

And I wholeheartily agree with your assessment that, "The problem of (NTW) is that these amazing questions are totally left behind." That's the point of my rant. I've always felt that the most interesting aspect of warfare at that time was the use of geometric order, shape and formulas on the battle field (including siege warfare). The age of shapeless masses of men pounding into each other was completely over, and the time of cover and concealment had hardly begun. Geometric precission was the rule of war and this can only be rarely found in other forms of warfare, but alas, NTW turns a blind eye to this. It's like creating a game about super heroes where all of the characters have no super powers.

Additionally, I had always operated under the assumption that the ordre de mixed was the preferred unit organization for Napoleon in the latter stages of his career.

@ cinco.
That's the thing that's amazed me about this game too.
They have entire staffs of people specifically trained in a wide variety of skills. As well as years of practice making their product. And here I am, a complete modding novice, whose only resources are browsing the internet for historical references and TWC.net modding tutorials. And I can put out a provinces mod for MTW2 that puts their finished and supposedly polished product to shame. That shouldn't even be possible! Should it?!