Public Research - Medieval Balkan Music

[Son of Serbia]

Could this work for one of western factions?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Kl94vVdDBo

[SpyrosM91]

I was wondering if modern (or post-mod timeframe, anyway) ethnic music that's performed on traditional instruments can be considered or not? I.e. something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPjOvB2Djjo

Thanks for the songs.
About the last song - I really dont know (I have doubts about the instrument ). Spyros will decide.

as a matter of fact, i also have a difficulty in deciding.... the music is very good.... but the instrument in the background is a bit modern... well, i suppose we could use it somewhere....

Hopefuly moderators wouldn't get too angry at me.

well, if you bribe us.... it's Balkans here.....

Hm... The Serbs standing idle, I'm setting up the battle. Clicking "start", and sellecting my spearmen, who eagerly await my orders, trusting their lives to my command. "Units, march!" - then, as their march begins to unfold, ground shaking under their feet, the first 35 seconds of this tune is what I hear:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dv8V...eature=related
(in other words - march music )
Huh?

35 secs is too small....

church music will be use for special moments like merrige or coronation .For other will be used medieval folk music -Isihiq,Ban Kulin,Irfan and others . Thanks for your support

Are you sure of that? Since the first post, by Tzar, church music is being posted here for selecting... Plus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7Zq3XsZUjw
Go to 0:20-ish. Is it just me, or does one hear Христос воскресе sung in Greek? That's monastic, that is, church music. Or was it triggered by reunification?

yeas i am . After all i am part of the team and have acces to other topics

KK, no hard feelings. I just noticed how the things went in this specific thread (topic). What about the preview? Was that music triggered by reunification?

yes, it's the "Christos Anesti", which is the greek equivalent of the "Христос воскресе".... but it was triggered by reunification event.... by this time, i haven't yet inserted background music to the game... it's 2Shy's job (give him some rep for that...) to download them and categorize them, so that later we can decide for the use of each song...

yes, chruch music can be used as ordinary music for background.... that time, religion had a great effect to the people.... simple chants can be mixed with folk music in order to break the monotony.... and more "pompous" church music like doxologies or sth could be used for special (or not.... eg. battle results) events.... or "sad sounding" chants of the "Great Week" (i don't know the right english word.... but it's the week before Easter....) could be used for losses, or deaths of important persons.....etc. etc.

all in all, chuch music will be used in both ways.... according to the style and sounding of each church song....

>IF< modern instruments are coming into consideration, what about using some soundtracks from Knights of Honor game? The composer is Bulgarian if I remember it right. Yeah, I do. (Though tracks are probably © ). One of them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URmrY...eature=related

yes we will might use some tracks for KoH (i love that game!!)... but only some of them... some of them cannot be used, because of their modern style or instruments... as for the copyright, firstly we will certainly give credits, and secondly our game is NOT commercial... also, for example, i wouldn't have a problem if some guys (and some of them are of the same country also) promoted my work...

As implied before in my posts, during the mod timeframe, everything was (or atleast was supposed to be) subordinated to religion. Before going into battles, Orthodox warriors used to recieve the Communion. For example, prince Lazar had his army recieve the Communion in Samodrezha church before going to Kosovo polje. Communion hymn, Тјело Христово:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-QXaKiq34Q

Next: I think I've got a perfect soundtrack for campaign map for Serbs (dissent is allowed of course , and this is where The Dudes come in). I'd found it sometime ago on YouTube, but the video seems to have been deleted. Luckily, I have it in my MP4 , so I'd uploaded the .mp3 file. Here goes (click the "play triangle" under "Listen to mp3:" note ):
http://kiwi6.com/file/k7a99uiva4
Hotlink (direct DL):
http://k003.kiwi6.com/hotlink/k7a99u...thno_music.mp3

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

PS: A little hint for The Dudes; Nothing much, but we all want this mod to be flawless, and I'm no exception... Inspired by your work here, I tried to pull of something - creating a mod of my own, for RTW BI (Note: I'm not trying to brag). Simple modifications - changing .txt docs to add units, buildings, change the names, editing textures with Gimp, downloading some user-created content (models), adding settlements and such. I'd converted the Slavs to Serbs, changed the symbols, territory and clothing collor from cream/yellow and blue to (can you guess? ) >red< and white, and Roxolani to Croats, whom I'd made emergent faction. I'd translated around 60% (or maybe less) of text to Serbian (cyrilic script) so far, so that has to be finished, as well as loading screens and intro. The mod is completely unhistorical and fictious, but I'm making it for fun, for myself, that is. Not much of modding - at least not the things you lack the staff for (mapping, scripting, skinning, modeling etc.), plus I've got a lot of studying for faculty (due to which I would only slow you down), and modding RTW and MTW2 differs a lot from what I've seen, so I wouldn't have been of much help; otherwise I'd gladly volounteer to help you with some "heavier" stuff than suggesting soundtracks and expressing oppinions about the great work you'd made so far. Now, to the point: I'd implemented custom music into it aswell. What I wanted you to pay the heed to is that tracks you get from YouTube are usually a bit loud compared to the SFX of the game (at least I'd experienced it to be as such - in RTW, that is), so you'd probably want to lower the volume of them a bit when converting the videos. Then, again, as I've said, it's just a trifle, and players can adjust music volume in-game. But we want it to be flawless. Alternatively, you can throw them in the way they are and check if they're too loud. If they are, you can edit the preferences .txt file (there is one in MTW2 aswell, is there?) and fix the problem that way. Good luck and sorry for giving advice uninvited (I know you'd probably have fixed it by yourself had the problem arised, but still), as well as for flooding the thread, but it's all with the best intentions.

Cheers.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Edit: for sake of accuracy, it's M2TW, not the way I'd typed it.

1. liked both of the songs....
2. thanks for the info about the music volume.... i haven't yet noticed it, because i haven't yet added much music inside the game....
3. bravo for your "mod"... very nice work!! (+rep)

[Son of Serbia]

Here's the man we were waiting for!

First of all, thanks for the elaborate reply, and sorry about consuming a considerable ammount of time of yours. I'll try to be short, but it is not my stronger side.

as a matter of fact, i also have a difficulty in deciding.... the music is very good.... but the instrument in the background is a bit modern... well, i suppose we could use it somewhere....

Yeah, I quite like the tune - it somehow grasps all the tragedy of Serbian people (and any Balkan people in general) in it - simply bursting with emotions. As I pointed out several times, you're the judges, though.

well, if you bribe us

Shhh...! Take this! Quickly, we're being watched!

35 secs is too small....

Indeed. I had some tunes that were around half a minute long in that small modification of mine - for marching soundtracks in particular. I tought it wouldn't show - but it does, it comes short. What do you think about the tune, though? Is it suitable for a march track? If so, I might try to tinker a bit and try to somehow prolong it.

yes, it's the "Christos Anesti", which is the greek equivalent of the "Христос воскресе".... but it was triggered by reunification event

Yeah, I know it was Χριστός Ανέστη , the question was rather rethorical. But I wasn't sure if it was triggered by the event, so thanks for making that clear.

yes, chruch music can be used as ordinary music for background....

Thanks, good to know. This particular piece of info can come in handy for Bagatyr aswell.

yes we will might use some tracks for KoH (i love that game!!)... but only some of them...

I love it too! And yeah, some of them are simply not adequate (orchestra ones).

as for the copyright, firstly we will certainly give credits, and secondly our game is NOT commercial... also, for example, i wouldn't have a problem if some guys (and some of them are of the same country also) promoted my work...

I wouldn't mind myself, and I guess people from "Black Sea" wouldn't either I just wanted to draw your atention to the fact they are probably copyrighted, since the last thing I want to achieve here is to become a reason of some third party suing the team. Although there were more sugestions after that one that were copyrighted, but I didn't point that out again, since I'm starting to bore myself with repeating the same stuff - I can only imagine how much it bores you.

1. liked both of the songs....
2. thanks for the info about the music volume.... i haven't yet noticed it, because i haven't yet added much music inside the game....
3. bravo for your "mod"... very nice work!! (+rep)

1. Glad you liked them. Btw, it seems that .mp3 file was removed. Can you guys still hear it, or do I need to reupload it?
2. You're welcome, of course, althoug it wasn't much of help.
3. My humble and sincere thanks. If I happen to get some more free time, I'll take it to go through some M2TW modding tutorials. If I get anny success, I'll let the team know I'm available for hire, if my services are needed. But if that free time doesn't come resonably soon, I sincerely wish you not to get in need of my help, that is, I wish the mod to be finished.

Eh, short, was it?

Cheers.

Edit: Notify me if I should slow it down a bit in this thread, because I literaly flooded it. Knowing myself, I'll continue posting links to any good and suitable tracks IMO that come to mind.

[NikeBG]

I wouldn't mind myself, and I guess people from "Black Sea" wouldn't either I just wanted to draw your atention to the fact they are probably copyrighted, since the last thing I want to achieve here is to become a reason of some third party suing the team.

As I somewhat recently posted in the TGC thread on a similar topic, I think it wouldn't be too much of a problem - KoH tracks have been officially used in at least one other mod (Prophesy of Pendor, for M&B/WB) and I think even in the official Paradox retail release of M&B. So if the team contacts Bobby "Glorian", I think he wouldn't mind giving permission. I can't be so certain about other copyrighted tracks mentioned before, like Isihia, Irfan, Anastasia, Ban Kulin etc. And the tricky part with them is that if they're contacted and they deny us permission, we wouldn't be able to use their (or anyone else's, who hasn't given permission) tracks even unofficially. And considering all bands/groups/performers usually have producers and stuff who hold the rights, it's more likely they wouldn't give permission, except for maybe 1-2 tracks at best.

1. Glad you liked them. Btw, it seems that .mp3 file was removed. Can you guys still hear it, or do I need to reupload it?

The one at the kiwi6 site is active and I can hear it (and download it).

[Son of Serbia]

As I somewhat recently posted in the TGC thread on a similar topic, I think it wouldn't be too much of a problem - KoH tracks have been officially used in at least one other mod (Prophesy of Pendor, for M&B/WB) and I think even in the official Paradox retail release of M&B. So if the team contacts Bobby "Glorian", I think he wouldn't mind giving permission. I can't be so certain about other copyrighted tracks mentioned before, like Isihia, Irfan, Anastasia, Ban Kulin etc. And the tricky part with them is that if they're contacted and they deny us permission, we wouldn't be able to use their (or anyone else's, who hasn't given permission) tracks even unofficially. And considering all bands/groups/performers usually have producers and stuff who hold the rights, it's more likely they wouldn't give permission, except for maybe 1-2 tracks at best.

Thanks for the info. I haven't been following TGC, so pardon me - I've never seen the thread you'd linked. Concerning the copyright in general, I've already stated I'd felt it was my obligation to draw the team's atention to the fact some of my sugestions are under it, and they'll come up with a decision on what to do about it, as well as if suggestions themselves would be included. Furthermore, Spyros already said it shouldn't be much of a problem even if they do include them w/o permission (non-comercial use, giving credits, etc.)

The one at the kiwi6 site is active and I can hear it (and download it).

Yeah, that's the one. Thanks. The problem was apparently related to my computer.

Cheers.

[Son of Serbia]

will be used medieval folk music -Isihiq,Ban Kulin,Irfan and others

Bagey, I don't want to pick on you, I just need to come up with a point, so I chose to quote this. These groups have some songs that actually contain the lyrics, which are, I suppose (and rightfully, dare I say ) in modern Bulgarian and post - mod timeframe Serbian (there are other songs sung in modern languages (not counting those posted just for fun, with no intention to help the mod) posted previously, but I just took these bands as an example).

What I wanted to ask is:
@ The Dudes (I'm seriously starting to tink about changing that nick to The Tsars ): are such songs valid for posting, that is, suggesting, or are they out of bounds? If they are "legal", I have some awesome suggestions of medieval and other traditional style music from Serbia, thus I'd appreciate your answer, so I know should I post them or not.

@ the Bulgar fellows, just in case I was mistaken - to quote myself:

in modern Bulgarian

Was I?

Cheers.

[Son of Serbia]

Oh, boy! How could I've forgoten this one?! I think you'll find yourself badly wanting to let it slip for this one when it comes to modern instruments. I present you the Stara baśń. Kiedy słońce było bogiem movie soundtrack: Pogrzeb Wisza, a.k.a future TTW lost battle soundtrack. Too confident? Hear the tune! (Joking, of course; would like to hear some oppinions)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The track seems to be cut and the ending is not smooth, so I sugest fading the last... Hm... 5? seconds via Grab Tube (which you can also use for DL-ing and converting the videos to .mp3 files simultaneously, rather than using YouTube Downloader (assuming you do it that way) and doing these two operations successively:
http://www.grab-tube.com/fade-out-mp3

Edit: if you decide to include it, of course.

[Bagatyr]

[Bagatyr]

Bagey, I don't want to pick on you, I just need to come up with a point, so I chose to quote this. These groups have some songs that actually contain the lyrics, which are, I suppose (and rightfully, dare I say ) in modern Bulgarian and post - mod timeframe Serbian (there are other songs sung in modern languages (not counting those posted just for fun, with no intention to help the mod) posted previously, but I just took these bands as an example).

in this songs of the groops they sing in medieval bulgarian

[2Shy]

I think you mean old church slavonic (old bulgarian) .

[Son of Serbia]

in this songs of the groops they sing in medieval bulgarian

I think you mean old church slavonic (old bulgarian)

Yeah, that's certainly what he meant (that would be old Serbian, too ). So, to summarize: the songs by these or any other performers that contain lyrics in any post - mod timeframe language form (which would, for Slavic factions, be anything but Old Slavic and Church Slavonic) will not be included. Thanks, bros.

[Bagatyr]

Yeah, that's certainly what he meant (that would be old Serbian, too ). So, to summarize: the songs by these or any other performers that contain lyrics in any post - mod timeframe language form (which would, for Slavic factions, be anything but Old Slavic and Church Slavonic) will not be included. Thanks, bros.

yes the same

[Son of Serbia]

VICTORY!

[NikeBG]

These groups have some songs that actually contain the lyrics, which are, I suppose (and rightfully, dare I say ) in modern Bulgarian and post - mod timeframe Serbian

Irfan... well, they sing on Latin and whatnot, but, yeah, I think they have some modern Bulgarian there. As for Isihia - most of their songs are on Old or Middle Bulgarian (can't really make the difference myself) or in the worst case - archaic Bulgarian (unless I've forgotten some of their tracks). One of my favourite tracks of theirs - Chernomen (which, for the non-Bulgarians, is how we call the battle of Maritsa, 1371) is most certainly not modern Bulgarian (which is why I love it so much). The Macedonian band Anastasia have some tracks on Old/Middle Bulgarian/OCS as well, though I think not all of them indeed. I don't remember if Kayno Yesno Slonce have any singing, so...

As for the Stara Basn track - it's a bit long for a lost battle track, but that's no problem - it can easily be cut a bit with Audacity at the beginning and the end. Otherwise, it's very nice indeed. Gotta watch the movie again.

[Son of Serbia]

Yeah, the cutting is the easiest part. About the movie - yeah, for a low-budget project, it's an excelent achivement. I liked it very much. Since I forgot to recommend it for watching (although the song draws one's curiosity by default ) - I do recomend it. I have Serbian subtitles dug somewhere, and I think they can easily be found on the net. I suppose it's the same when it comes to other languages.

Edit: I remember listening a certain Bulgarian duo - Elitsa and Stoyan a while back - she is a vocalist and he is a percussionist. Their songs sound pretty attractive, her voice in particular. All the pieces I've heared performed by them, were, however, some kind of ethno-techno mix, if I remember it right, so I don't know if there are any songs adequate for the mod soundtracks, but this is where Bulgarians (and anyone else who has been listening to their music a bit more than me) come in. Hm?

[Bagatyr]

Edit: I remember listening a certain Bulgarian duo - Elitsa and Stoyan a while back - she is a vocalist and he is a percussionist. Their songs sound pretty attractive, her voice in particular. All the pieces I've heared performed by them, were, however, some kind of ethno-techno mix, if I remember it right, so I don't know if there are any songs adequate for the mod soundtracks, but this is where Bulgarians (and anyone else who has been listening to their music a bit more than me) come in. Hm?

I remember their song for Eurovizion 2007 it was nice back then but in such a contest win the states that have been in a union with somebody like former ygo or soviets or oriental states like Turkey or Azerbaidjan (i can't understand why the hell they are in eurovizion since they are not europeans ) that have meny population in western europe ...

[Son of Serbia]

Turkey or Azerbaidjan (i can't understand why the hell they are in eurovizion since they are not europeans )

What about the Turkish submission of candidature for entering EU?
I'm not usually thrilled by songs on Eurovision. As you somewhat pointed out - too many times the crappy songs win... I forgot "Watter" was on Eurovision 2007... Nice one, but that's a perfect example of a ethno-techno mix I spoke of earlier. I wonder if there are any songs without the modern background sounds...

No, I guess, since it's their style...

[NikeBG]

Yeah, it's their style. They have some songs with a bit more "ethno" feeling, but the "techno" is always there, even when they sing proper folk songs (compare with these performances of the second song). Unlike the Mystery of the Bulgarian Voices/Le Mystere des Voix Bulgares (check their albums here), who use "techno" elements quite well, but have some rather pure "ethno" albums, too.
Unfortunately (or not - depends on what you need it for) many of our modern famous performers also use some more modern styles to their folk singing or playing. F.e. Theodosii Spassov is certainly one of our best kaval players, but he's often kinda too... jazzy or I don't know how exactly to call it.

[Son of Serbia]

Yeah, so no E&S in TTW.

[Bagatyr]