Public Research - Medieval Balkan Quotes

[thekingsmen]

here is a quote from an turkis historian who lived in bosnia for 30 jears the time period is 1549-1599 his name is Tarihi Aali and this is the quote:

SLAVIC
1."Bez sumnje Bošnjaci, koji se pribrajaju hrvatskom narodu, odlikuju se kao prosti vojnici dobrotom i pobožnosti, kao age i zapovjednici obrazovanošću i vrlinom; ako dođu do časti velikih vezira, u upravi su dobroćudni, ponosni i pravedni, da ih velikaši hvale i odlični umnici slave."

2.Što se tiče plemena Hrvata, koje se pripisuje rijeci Bosni, njihov se značaj odrazuje u veseloj naravi; oni su po Bosni poznati i po tekućoj rijeci prozvati (Bošnjaci). Duša im je čista, a lice svijetlo; većinom su stasiti i prostodušni - njihovi likovi kao značajevi naginju pravednosti

ENG.
1.whithout no doubth bosnians who count under the croatian people characterized as simple soldiers with
goodness and piety,as agas and comanders with level of education and virtue;if they get to the honor of great vezirs in administration they are
benign,proud and just,so the nobelmans praise them and great minds praise them

2.concerning the croatian tribe,attributed to the river of bosnia,their
significance is in a cheerful nature;by bosnia thej are known and by the flowing river they are caled.their soul is pure, and their faces bright;mostly their are
handsome and simpleminded- their caracters tilt to justice.

i could find more if u want?

[Hrobatos]

Im familiar with the text. Please feel free to post more. Can you post a link to a book that contains this quote?

[thekingsmen]

Im familiar with the text. Please feel free to post more. Can you post a link to a book that contains this quote?

the problem is that the original book is in turkish! and the books with eng. or some languge which contain this are copright protected so i cant,but u can find the text on forums,wikipedia and similar!

[Hrobatos]

Its just the thing, I always see people copy paste this text but never links to the original book.

[thekingsmen]

Its just the thing, I always see people copy paste this text but never links to the original book.

well u cant put a link to a book those books need to be payed othervise it is piracy

[b257]

well u cant put a link to a book those books need to be payed othervise it is piracy

not really, legit sites like Google books posts passages and samples from books all the time. Perfectly legal to link them, though one in a million shot the book you have is posted on their site.

[Hrobatos]

Its not illegal to put a link to such a book, its centuries old, its common world historical heritage, its not owned by anyone. Except original version which lies somewhere in Turkey in archives.

I mean writer isnt around anymore to raise case on court against you. If you cannot backup your dont post them.

[thekingsmen]

Its not illegal to put a link to such a book, its centuries old, its common world historical heritage, its not owned by anyone. Except original version which lies somewhere in Turkey in archives.

I mean writer isnt around anymore to raise case on court against you. If you cannot backup your dont post them.

i cant find it in turkish couse i cant turkish,if u want a quote of this in an historyan book then it can be in eng but that book will be modernday history book so it is ilegal!
is wikipedia good enaf for you?

[Bosnian_Guy]

i cant find it in turkish couse i cant turkish,if u want a quote of this in an historyan book then it can be in eng but that book will be modernday history book so it is ilegal!
is wikipedia good enaf for you?

This is outer rubbish. A. Ali just like Evlija Celebi called all inhabitants of the Bosnian Ejalet Bosniaks. The Bosnian self governance during the Ottoman empire covered most of Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro. It was this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

When Evlija Celebi travels through dalmatia and Bosnia and Serbia he explains that there are "Bosniaks Elajeti " who are the inhabitant of the whole Bosnian Ejalet. And "Bosniaks Milleti" who the Turks consider as ethnical Bosnians. Catholics in Bosnia were nothing else than Bosniaks Milleti for the Turks. However the Turks considered Croats and Serbs in Croatia and Serbia (which were part of the Bosnian Ejalet also as Bosniaks.


A. Alija, when travelling from Bihac to split, just like Evlija Celebi, mentioned that those people are Bosniaks (even if they are croats by ethnicity from origins). But that their origins are croatians (hundreds years ago they were not part of the Bosnian self governence before the Turks came).


All the Bosnian kings, Bans, the Popes and other call catholics from Bosnia only with one name: Bosnjani. The Popes even use the term "Nacionen Bossnessis" even if the modern nations come into existence 800 years later.

Explaining catholics from Bosnia as anything else than Bosnians is falsification of history.

[Hrobatos]

Just a post above is my discussion regarding the same issue.
People come here, they wont write even under their own name but then proceede to write all kind of informations and now I am suppossed to forget everything I know believe you ?

I want sources ! I want to see that original book or letter myself. Otherwise I dont care about your claims who said or wrote what.

[PavleSubich]

This is outer rubbish. A. Ali just like Evlija Celebi called all inhabitants of the Bosnian Ejalet Bosniaks. The Bosnian self governance during the Ottoman empire covered most of Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro. It was this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

When Evlija Celebi travels through dalmatia and Bosnia and Serbia he explains that there are "Bosniaks Elajeti " who are the inhabitant of the whole Bosnian Ejalet. And "Bosniaks Milleti" who the Turks consider as ethnical Bosnians. Catholics in Bosnia were nothing else than Bosniaks Milleti for the Turks. However the Turks considered Croats and Serbs in Croatia and Serbia (which were part of the Bosnian Ejalet also as Bosniaks.


A. Alija, when travelling from Bihac to split, just like Evlija Celebi, mentioned that those people are Bosniaks (even if they are croats by ethnicity from origins). But that their origins are croatians (hundreds years ago they were not part of the Bosnian self governence before the Turks came).


All the Bosnian kings, Bans, the Popes and other call catholics from Bosnia only with one name: Bosnjani. The Popes even use the term "Nacionen Bossnessis" even if the modern nations come into existence 800 years later.

Explaining catholics from Bosnia as anything else than Bosnians is falsification of history.

LOL! How can it be a falsification if only the academics from Sarajevo are claiming that bosniani are an etnicity and all the scientific comunities all aroun the world write the history of bosnia in their ovn enciklopedias with the begining: In the 7. century croats and serbs settled the area of todays bosnia???

Outside the mater of etnicity what we know about bosnia for sure is that it vas sparsely inhabited,it didnt even had one single rojal city,nor anything that would count as metropola of its age,not a single famous person that vasnt a ruler.

Bosnia in medieval time vas so sparsley inhabited and such a remote spot that it is hard to explain to someone from the west and find a teritoty that they know today and that u can compare to bosnia.

Il try it never the less.
So bosnia in the medieval time vas like transnistria today.It didnt even had a big city,it did not had a cultural center,a religiouse center,economic center.

Bosnia in midle age vas technically dalmatian hinterland
Bosnia vas under the churchal jurisdiction of Split and later Dubrovnik/Ragusa,Tvrtkos golden coins were made by the ragusans,the "bosnian" clergy vas literaly one and the same as the dalmatian clergy.Bishops and priests from dalmatia held masses in dalmatia and then the other week they would hold a mass in bosnia and so on.
In bosnia there is not a single book,script,bible that isnt originaly from dalmatia and writen from the dalmatian cleriks or writen by people of that school of toughts.Even the so called bosancica vas first writen in coastal croatia/dalmatia.

The nobility of dalmatia and bosnia (wich is like 1000 people) if you would bring them to one single place and point out who is related to whom and in wich matter but not knowing that they are nobiliy u would think that it is an hercegovinian wedding

In hercegovina wedings betven 2 familiys can have more than 1000 guests and yes they are all related,we have big familys.

Even more important is that in medieval times the identity of the nobility is the identity of the land.The comon people uses their etnic identity.Yes in bosnia the kotromanics use the term bosniani wich is a regional term derived from a river valley like missisipian or similar.
But the clergy,turkish writers,venetian writers tend to call the inhabitans croats and the land as belonging to croatia.


BACK TO ETNICITY
Now the crucial fact to determine the cultural affiliation is language and the language of the medieval bosnia is schakavian(stokavian alsov) dialect-ikavian ptronunciation!
Gues where thah is spoken ?

DALMATIA!!!

BTW
The most oldest bosnian historyan from the 16. century who wrote history of bosnia back durin the ottoman rule alsov claimed that his(theirs) history begins with the setteling of croats in that area in the 7th century.

The oldest bosnian gramar literature from the same century (i think) claims to be of the croatian jazik(language,people)
The autor literaly states that he wrote this book for the bosnian children of the croatian jazik/language.
The word jazik is an old slavic word that has 3 meanings-language,people(tribe) and letter.

Poems
The oldest poems are from like the 1600 s and they speak about the sad death of the bosnian king and how croats weapt all of bosnia with their tears cuz of that and similar.

To say that the croatian origins of the bosnians is falsified is lunacy cuz even to this day it is only the bosnian croats who have custom,culture,dialects,surnames that are "medieval bosnian".

When i say bosnian custom,culture,dialects,surnames i just want to point the fact that all of those are the same as in dalmatia wich is the cultural source and center of that culture and even that biological substance (cuz geneticly dlmatians,hercegovinians and bosnian croats are undistinguishable).

[PavleSubich]

Its not illegal to put a link to such a book, its centuries old, its common world historical heritage, its not owned by anyone. Except original version which lies somewhere in Turkey in archives.

I mean writer isnt around anymore to raise case on court against you. If you cannot backup your dont post them.

The centuries old book is writen in the arabic letters and in the turkish language.Yes i have it,do you read arabic,turkish?

Books that qoute it in english would be modern,dont u think that?

[PavleSubich]

Here is a transcript from Mustafa Ali, Kunh' ul-ahbar, vol 5, site 5. 1861-1867, Istanbul (Darutttıbaatil amire).
Red marks "croatian tribe",green marks "river bosnia",blue marks "tilt to justice"





This is a translation from Dr.Basagic National Museum of Bosnia and Herzegovina 1912.6-7.