Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 76

Thread: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

  1. #1
    ★Bandiera Rossa☭'s Avatar The Red Menace
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    6,237

    Default Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    I am creating this thread for many reasons: 1. To debunk the myth that Leftist ideas are somehow alien to the United States, and 2. To point out the many successes and failures of Socialist, Anarchist, and communist movements throughout the history of the United States. Obviously this thread will be lacking, but I hope that over time it can be expanded to be more inclusive and precise. I intend to add more on to the thread periodically, so if you find it interesting be sure to check in every once in a while.

    Now to get my biases out of the way: I am a Marxist and Bolshevik-Leninist. I am anti-Stalinist, not the biggest fan of Anarchism, and highly critical of reformism. If you take issue with anything I post, be sure to mention it.


    Section 1: The “Red” People of the Americas
    Obviously any history of communism in the U.S. cannot be started without mentioning the Native Americans – although they have diverse histories and traditions, share a few key similarities: The majority of tribes had no concept of private property, lived in a stateless society, and invested control of most wealth in the community as a whole. Of course, this does not mean that Pre-Colonialism there was a socialist utopia present in what is now the United States. Much of the collectivism of the natives was couples with tribalist beliefs which dehumanized members of other tribes and led to inter-tribal conflicts. Primitive communism was also not capable of sustaining huge populations or considerably raising the standard of living for the average person. It was necessarily linked to the constant search for food in hunter-gather societies, and back-breaking labor for agricultural societies. Although as a Marxist I can find much to criticize in what Is generally termed “primitive communism”, I do recognize the fact that the social structure of the Native Americans was the basis of one of the principle books of Marxist theory: Engel’s “The Origins of the Family, State and Private Property” – which itself inspired Lenin’s famous “The State and Revolution”.

    Section 2: "Puritan Communism"
    When you hear the term “Puritan” you likely think of hard-working pilgrims with funny hats - but there is much in Puritan society which is largely ignored in modern times. Puritans in the Americas were some of the first people in the world to embrace universal suffrage, compulsory education, and republicanism. In the common view Puritans are thought of as simply religious refugees, but a good number of them were also political refugees. During the English Revolution protestant rebels overthrew the monarchy, this revolution was unfortunately for the more radical semi-proletarian protestants hijacked by the upper middle-class Cromwell. During the revolution there were many groups which were openly critical of private property. These political and religious groupings (Such as the Diggers and Levellers) believed that private property was fundamentally at odds with Christian teachings. They interpreted the book of acts as not just a chronicle of the acts of the apostles, but as an example of what it was to be a good Christian. These movements were crushed by Cromwell, and later the restored Monarchy – but many of their ideas lived on in the Puritan refugees who settled in New England. As can be expected, there is still much to criticize about the Puritan’s communism: It was moralistic – something not all that surprising for the time, excluded non-Christians, and put the Puritans in direct conflict with the natives whose land they took over.

    Section 3: Utopian Socialism in the U.S.A
    Owenism: Utopian socialism is generally considered to have its origin in the ideology of Robert Owen - a wealthy Welsh industrialist and later a "Spiritualist" religious leader. In 1825 he attempted to set up Two Utopian communes - one near Glasgow, the other in Indiana. Both of these failed. There were various theories as to why this happened - one as advocated by Josiah Warren (A participant in Owen's American commune) was that the project failed due to a lack of private property and recognition of the individual. He later went on to become one of the original theoreticians of Individualist Anarchism. The second theory - as advocated by Marx and Engels, is that the failure was the result of escapism and class collaboration. The Owenites had isolated themselves from the products of the rests of the world and did not themselves have control over the means of production which were necessary to ensure the long-term viability of the community.

    American Fourierites:

    Brook Farm: In 1841 another band of Utopian socialists founded a community farm known as "Brook Farm". This community based itself on the ideas of Transcendentalism, Unitarianism, and the teachings of Charles Fourier. This community again failed, most likely due to its isolation (Which interestingly created a bureaucracy which can be compared to that which exist(s/ed) in Stalinist countries.

    La Reunion: In 1855 followers of Fourier founded a town on the location of what is now Dallas, Texas. They intended to base their community on the idea that laborers should be rewarded in proportion to the work that they contribute to society - private property was permitted, and there was not necessarily any real equality. The community declined eventually due to the inhospitable weather of the area which did not allow them to easily grow crops, and due to many of the lower-class workers abandoning the project as it became more difficult to join the elite.

    The Shakers: The Shakers were a splinter group of the Quakers that believed in socio-economic equality, equality of the sexes, but oddest of all - full abstention from sexual activity. They created many communities and were one of the most successful Utopian socialist groups in American history. Unlike other Utopian communities, they did not fail for economic reasons - they had wide support and contributions kept them afloat, but they were forbidden to have sex. This eventually led to dwindling numbers and the eventual extinction or desertion of those that remained.




    To be continued....
    Last edited by ★Bandiera Rossa☭; February 26, 2011 at 04:31 AM.


  2. #2

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    Ugh....really?
    "Mors Certa, Hora Incerta."

    "We are a brave people of a warrior race, descendants of the illustrious Romans, who made the world tremor. And in this way we will make it known to the whole world that we are true Romans and their descendants, and our name will never die and we will make proud the memories of our parents." ~ Despot Voda 1561

    "The emperor Trajan, after conquering this country, divided it among his soldiers and made it into a Roman colony, so that these Romanians are descendants, as it is said, of these ancient colonists, and they preserve the name of the Romans." ~ 1532, Francesco della Valle Secretary of Aloisio Gritti, a natural son to Doge

  3. #3
    ★Bandiera Rossa☭'s Avatar The Red Menace
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    6,237

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    Quote Originally Posted by Carpathian Wolf View Post
    Ugh....really?

    Care to be more exact about what you dislike?


  4. #4

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    Quote Originally Posted by ★Bandiera Rossa☭ View Post
    Primitive communism was also not capable of sustaining huge populations or considerably raising the standard of living for the average person.
    Please note that I'm not familiar with this topic at all, just talking.

    Aren't there multiple examples of large urban centers in the pre-European era? There are several in North America, and of course in the more famous locations of Mexico, Central America, and Peru. I think I even saw a show on a huge, networked society living in the Amazon that supported populations exponentially higher than anything previously thought possible.

    What were the purposes of these societies than to raise the standard of living? And by what method did they do this? Trade? I think trade implies some sort of commerce, of getting more than what you paid for.

    But again, I really have no background in this area of history at all.
    The great armies, accumulated to provide security and preserve the peace, carried the nations to war by their own weight. - A.J.P. Taylor

    The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants. - Albert Camus

    This signature was last edited by intel, Today at 2:37PM

  5. #5

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    Quote Originally Posted by ★Bandiera Rossa☭ View Post
    Care to be more exact about what you dislike?
    The whole noble savage bs that indians in america had no concept of owning property. That's utter hog wash. Just to begin with.
    "Mors Certa, Hora Incerta."

    "We are a brave people of a warrior race, descendants of the illustrious Romans, who made the world tremor. And in this way we will make it known to the whole world that we are true Romans and their descendants, and our name will never die and we will make proud the memories of our parents." ~ Despot Voda 1561

    "The emperor Trajan, after conquering this country, divided it among his soldiers and made it into a Roman colony, so that these Romanians are descendants, as it is said, of these ancient colonists, and they preserve the name of the Romans." ~ 1532, Francesco della Valle Secretary of Aloisio Gritti, a natural son to Doge

  6. #6
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    The Hell called Conscription
    Posts
    35,615

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    I don't remember Aztec was stateless...
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  7. #7
    Blatta Optima Maxima's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Free Democratic People's Republic of Latvia
    Posts
    10,738

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    He means the North American natives.

  8. #8
    dogukan's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Middle freaking east
    Posts
    7,777

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    Nice thread, waiting for more
    Quote Originally Posted by Carpathian Wolf View Post
    The whole noble savage bs that indians in america had no concept of owning property. That's utter hog wash. Just to begin with.
    Of course they "owned" stuff, it is just not on paper in the capitalistic sense.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  9. #9

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    "The majority of tribes had no concept of private property, lived in a stateless society, "

    Bull .
    "Mors Certa, Hora Incerta."

    "We are a brave people of a warrior race, descendants of the illustrious Romans, who made the world tremor. And in this way we will make it known to the whole world that we are true Romans and their descendants, and our name will never die and we will make proud the memories of our parents." ~ Despot Voda 1561

    "The emperor Trajan, after conquering this country, divided it among his soldiers and made it into a Roman colony, so that these Romanians are descendants, as it is said, of these ancient colonists, and they preserve the name of the Romans." ~ 1532, Francesco della Valle Secretary of Aloisio Gritti, a natural son to Doge

  10. #10

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    They didn't live in a stateless society, as the tribes were, you know, tribes and states in their own right.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen,
    Oud ben maar nog niet verrot.
    Zoals oude bomen zingen,
    Voor Jan Lul of voor hun god.
    Ook een oude boom wil reizen,
    Bij een bries of bij een storm.
    Zelfs al zit zijn kruin vol luizen,
    Zelfs al zit zijn voet vol worm.
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

    Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
    A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
    Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
    Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,
    Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,
    'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

    Jajem ssoref is m'n korew
    E goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtomp
    Wer niks is, hot kawsones

  11. #11
    ★Bandiera Rossa☭'s Avatar The Red Menace
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    6,237

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Croccer View Post
    They didn't live in a stateless society, as the tribes were, you know, tribes and states in their own right.
    States and associations are not the same thing - if they were, Anarchists would be statists.

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    I don't remember Aztec was stateless...
    They weren't, but most of the North American and many of the South American tribes were. The social structure of various tribes depended on their mode of production. Mass agriculturists developed states and oligarchy to safeguard their excess wealth, while hunter-gatherers and small-scale agriculturists maintained egalitarian societies.
    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    Of course they "owned" stuff, it is just not on paper in the capitalistic sense.
    Obviously they had personal property (Which communists aren't against anyway) but there was no private property. No individuals "owned" land or the means of production (which were mostly non-existent)
    Last edited by ★Bandiera Rossa☭; February 19, 2011 at 04:29 PM.


  12. #12

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    Quote Originally Posted by ★Bandiera Rossa☭ View Post
    States and associations are not the same thing - if they were, Anarchists would be statists.
    A state is a tribe grown big. The Iroquois, Mongols, Gauls, etc were cultures and people with their laws, leaders and form of government. Anarchists aren't tribals because they don't advocate close and near-unbreakable bonds of kinship.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen,
    Oud ben maar nog niet verrot.
    Zoals oude bomen zingen,
    Voor Jan Lul of voor hun god.
    Ook een oude boom wil reizen,
    Bij een bries of bij een storm.
    Zelfs al zit zijn kruin vol luizen,
    Zelfs al zit zijn voet vol worm.
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

    Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
    A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
    Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
    Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,
    Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,
    'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

    Jajem ssoref is m'n korew
    E goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtomp
    Wer niks is, hot kawsones

  13. #13
    ★Bandiera Rossa☭'s Avatar The Red Menace
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    6,237

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Croccer View Post
    A state is a tribe grown big. The Iroquois, Mongols, Gauls, etc were cultures and people with their laws, leaders and form of government. Anarchists aren't tribals because they don't advocate close and near-unbreakable bonds of kinship.
    1. I never said anarchists were Tribalists.
    2. The Iroquois league had what can be described as a government, but not a developed state. There was no centralized "coercive force", nor was there private property.


  14. #14

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    Quote Originally Posted by ★Bandiera Rossa☭ View Post
    2. The Iroquois league had what can be described as a government, but not a developed state. There was no centralized "coercive force", nor was there private property.
    ''Coercive force''? For 's sake, you're a Communist, there's no need to use obtuse Liberal terminology. What do you mean with ''coercive force''?

    Private property, in the sense of personal landownership for the sake of extracting raw resources, didn't exist. However slavery did and many of the intertribal conflicts were most likely about disputes over land.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen,
    Oud ben maar nog niet verrot.
    Zoals oude bomen zingen,
    Voor Jan Lul of voor hun god.
    Ook een oude boom wil reizen,
    Bij een bries of bij een storm.
    Zelfs al zit zijn kruin vol luizen,
    Zelfs al zit zijn voet vol worm.
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

    Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
    A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
    Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
    Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,
    Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,
    'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

    Jajem ssoref is m'n korew
    E goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtomp
    Wer niks is, hot kawsones

  15. #15

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    This is about as retarded as Ceausescu telling us about the "communist Dacian people" and all his bull . What is it with you communists?
    "Mors Certa, Hora Incerta."

    "We are a brave people of a warrior race, descendants of the illustrious Romans, who made the world tremor. And in this way we will make it known to the whole world that we are true Romans and their descendants, and our name will never die and we will make proud the memories of our parents." ~ Despot Voda 1561

    "The emperor Trajan, after conquering this country, divided it among his soldiers and made it into a Roman colony, so that these Romanians are descendants, as it is said, of these ancient colonists, and they preserve the name of the Romans." ~ 1532, Francesco della Valle Secretary of Aloisio Gritti, a natural son to Doge

  16. #16
    dogukan's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Middle freaking east
    Posts
    7,777

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    Quote Originally Posted by Carpathian Wolf View Post
    What is it with you communists?
    what?
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  17. #17
    Fight!'s Avatar Question Everything.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    7,820

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    I concur with the above post...
    Roll over the names for quotes

    Aristotle || Buddha || Musashi


    Under the proud patronage of Saint Nicholas
    Proud patron of ★Bandiera Rossa☭

  18. #18

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    The constant bsing of history.
    "Mors Certa, Hora Incerta."

    "We are a brave people of a warrior race, descendants of the illustrious Romans, who made the world tremor. And in this way we will make it known to the whole world that we are true Romans and their descendants, and our name will never die and we will make proud the memories of our parents." ~ Despot Voda 1561

    "The emperor Trajan, after conquering this country, divided it among his soldiers and made it into a Roman colony, so that these Romanians are descendants, as it is said, of these ancient colonists, and they preserve the name of the Romans." ~ 1532, Francesco della Valle Secretary of Aloisio Gritti, a natural son to Doge

  19. #19
    Fight!'s Avatar Question Everything.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    7,820

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    lulzwut?

    You like to stereotype don't you?
    Roll over the names for quotes

    Aristotle || Buddha || Musashi


    Under the proud patronage of Saint Nicholas
    Proud patron of ★Bandiera Rossa☭

  20. #20

    Default Re: Leftism in the USA - a critical history

    Interesting Thread please continue...
    For the record, "comunism" realy works in small societies, i seen it before, even lived it. And it is among us for a long time, i know that In my country Portugal there are still villages specialy more isolated villages, that were self suficient, and have their on ways of surving economicaly since the time of the celts. The fields, and flok werent onwed by anyone, instead it was somewhat village proprety, and families using a rotating system to work on then, the products that they wont need they after would trade with other comon goods that the vilagers need. And as i said before this system survived since Celtic times, until very recently, and there is still cases of this comunitary villages as we call then. I remember one in Particular " Rio de Honor" a village that is half Spanish and half Portuguese, but in practise was neither it was just sitting in the midle of a border map. Just a few years back EU state the first european village ;P very interesting.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Binational Village Wants to Be Simply ‘European’
    By Mario de Queiroz

    RIO DE ONOR, Portugal, Jun 20 , 2007 (IPS) - This tiny village of 109 people straddles the border between Portugal and Spain. On one side are the 50 houses of Rio de Onor de Braganza and on the other are the 20 houses of Ríohonor de Castilla. But the locals feel they are one community, and they want their hometown to be declared the first simply "European" village.

    The mayor of Portugal’s Rio de Onor, Antonio José Preto, tells IPS that the idea emerged two years ago "in an assembly in which both the Spanish and Portuguese villagers took part. We unanimously decided to ask to become the first European Village, something that does not exist yet, even as a concept."

    Preto says the formal request was sent to European Union (EU) headquarters in Brussels with the signatures of all of the villagers from both sides of the border. But the 74 Portuguese villagers and 35 Spaniards who want their village to be renamed Río Honor de Europa have become disillusioned with EU red tape.

    In the two years since the village assembly was held, they have received no response whatsoever to their petition. "Europe would seem to be farther and farther away," is the most common complaint heard in the village tavern when the subject comes up.

    The Portuguese villagers lash out at the president of the European Commission, the EU executive arm, José Manuel Durão Barroso: "He's Portuguese, he could have helped us," complains one.

    While they wait for news from the bureaucracy in Brussels, life as a unified community goes on.

    "We have always been united, and have always considered ourselves one village, one people, who plant and harvest together on common land and have a jointly owned village flock," says Preto. "We are the product of many mixed marriages, between people from both sides of the river."

    The river marks the border in one part of the village, while a street marks the frontier in another. A chain used to divide Rio de Onor from Ríohonor, but it was finally removed because of the inconvenience it caused: cars actually had to make a 60-kilometre detour to cross from one side to the other.

    Lying across the border is a community garden worked by both Spanish and Portuguese villagers. There are families whose members live on both sides of the border, and many own land in both countries.

    They also share their own dialect, "Riodonorés", which is basically "Portuñol" - a mixture of Spanish and Portuguese.

    The immense majority of the blond and blue-eyed villagers, descendants of the Celts who long ago populated northern Portugal and northwestern Spain, also share a last name, although those born on the Portuguese side spell it Preto and those on the Spanish side Prieto.

    In fact, because of marriages between people of different nationalities, many families are Prieto Preto or Preto Prieto (both the maternal and paternal surnames are used in Spanish and Portuguese).

    The Portuguese part of the village is in the Tras-os-Montes region in northeastern Portugal, 25 kilometres from the regional capital Braganza.

    The Spanish portion of the village is in the northwestern Spanish province of Castilla y León.

    As part of the effort to become the first "European village’’, one of the first steps was to ask the University of Salamanca to carry out a study on the joint infrastructure that would need to be built and services that would have to be established, for which the villagers hope to obtain EU financing.

    "We hope to get a health centre and a pharmacy, create a bilingual school to replace the one that closed 15 years ago because we had no children left, improve the roads, and found a retirement home," says Preto.

    A school without children? "Yes, because that way we could get young couples, who leave now because there is no school for their children, to stay. Besides, educating people isn't just for kids; it also helps improve the cultural level of adults and fights functional illiteracy," he says.

    The villagers feel isolated because of the lack of a frequent transport service. On the Portuguese side, the bus comes only on weekdays, and on the Spanish side the bus comes through only on Mondays and Thursdays, complains Beatriz dos Anjos, who lives in Ríohonor.

    She says it is absolutely essential to have a car, and adds that "whoever doesn't have one has to rent one."

    Dos Anjos has no doubt that people live better in Spain. "If I get sick, I don't want them to take me to the other side. Even though I'm Portuguese, the reality is that medicines here are cheaper and if you have a problem, the doctor comes quickly" from Sanabria, a nearby town, she says.

    Everyone knows that medical attention in Spain is of higher quality and free, and that wages are better as well. Furthermore, prices are lower, especially in the case of electricity, cooking and heating gas, many food items, and gasoline, which is 22 percent cheaper than in Portugal, where the only things that are less expensive are coffee, beer or a cup of wine.

    But although "Spain provides the drinking water, sanitation is in the hands of Portugal," says dos Anjos.

    And while "there is still much to be done," roads have improved immensely in the last few years, she adds.

    In a village where everyone knows everyone else, Spanish villager Miguel Prieto approaches a group made up of the mayor, two photographers and a journalist. Even before anyone asks him anything, he says he is "very sad and (doesn't) feel much like talking."

    He has his reasons: "My Portuguese girlfriend of several years just left me."

    Unlike the Portuguese villager who praised life in Spain, this Spanish resident defends Portugal outside the tavern, loud enough so that everyone can hear.

    "When I want to know something about the world, I read the Portuguese newspapers, which arrive every day, compared to the Spanish papers, which you can only get twice a week. And as far as television goes, all you can get here are the Portuguese stations; the Spanish signals aren't even picked up here," he says.

    One of his fellow countrymen believes that he discerns a hidden agenda in the villager’s praise for the country that lies across the street. "It's a conciliatory message aimed at the girl who left him," he ventures.

    This tiny spot forgotten by modern-day Europe "is also a marginalised frontier for Spain," geologist and environmentalist Valentín Cabero tells IPS.

    Cabero is a professor from the University of Salamanca who is on a visit to Tras-os-Montes province with a group of Spanish, Portuguese, Brazilian, Mexican and Peruvian students.

    "I hope the European Village project takes concrete shape, it's a pioneering initiative," he adds. "But I also hope that it wouldn't translate into the loss of identity of this region which is so rich in terms of the environment, culture and traditions." (END)



    http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=38249
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; February 19, 2011 at 10:16 PM.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •