Facts & Features

[Resurrection]

will lithuania have historical family?

Hardly considering 1080 is some 120 years before recorded history in Lithuania. On the other hand what it will have will be the best possible educated guess. We have a dedicated Lithuanian guy working on that so it should be good.

[Admiral Piett]

I just thought of something weird as I've actually never seen this happen before.

Say if the Holy Roman Emperor captured Constantinople. He'd be like "Emperor of the Romans" and "Emperor of Constantinople" or "Emperor of the Two Empires" or something.

[Hengest]

no titles will be faction or culture specific, although we still need coders for titles all you'll have none at all

[RaduAlexandru]

Well I am not impressed - sorry to say so. For me a game, a mod, not featuring Genoa but featuring Armenia and Georgia isn't worth playing. I respect your guy's work but I think that when choices have to be made western states such as Genoa were far more important and had far far more impact on history than those small eastern kingdoms which did nothing other than struggle for existence for some centuries. Genoa as Genoa but KoJ or the Teutons .. yes yes it's a bit a-historical but then again your whole mod is completely a-historical if you come to think about it and not because of you guys but because of the limitations of the game engine. Agreed mtw2 or for that matter any CA game will never ever compare to EU in terms of representing history ... but then again I think you guys should consider that those who will play your mod [which will last for about 1 year cause by the end of 2012 I and many others expect a MTW3 from CA] will do so to have fun - and fun means small western factions with a tons of unique units [such as the teutons koj or heh.. genoa..] ... As for including Syria in this well the quite only reason such a faction should be included as playable would be in conjunction with KoJ otherwise some upped rebels could play its historical role ...

Otherwise good job and I hope to play your mod soon - I do hope it will be fun

[WinsingtonIII]

and fun means small western factions with a tons of unique units [such as the teutons koj or heh.. genoa..]

"Fun" is completely subjective, clearly you only have fun playing Western European factions (of which there will be many), but you must remember that others will have much more fun playing eastern or Middle Eastern factions (which can also have tons of unique units... In fact, there will probably be more unit diversity between Syria, Cilician Armenia, and Georgia than there will be between the North Italic factions, of which there are two others already). You cannot expect every mod to cater to your personal tastes and only put in the factions that you most enjoy to play. If that's what you want, make your own mod in which all of your favorite factions are represented.

EDIT: Plus, as others have mentioned, and I can't believe I forgot to mention this, Genoa is in the mod as the "Communi Liberi."

[Horatius Flaccus]

Well I am not impressed - sorry to say so. For me a game, a mod, not featuring Genoa but featuring Armenia and Georgia isn't worth playing. I respect your guy's work but I think that when choices have to be made western states such as Genoa were far more important and had far far more impact on history than those small eastern kingdoms which did nothing other than struggle for existence for some centuries. Genoa as Genoa but KoJ or the Teutons .. yes yes it's a bit a-historical but then again your whole mod is completely a-historical if you come to think about it and not because of you guys but because of the limitations of the game engine. Agreed mtw2 or for that matter any CA game will never ever compare to EU in terms of representing history ... but then again I think you guys should consider that those who will play your mod [which will last for about 1 year cause by the end of 2012 I and many others expect a MTW3 from CA] will do so to have fun - and fun means small western factions with a tons of unique units [such as the teutons koj or heh.. genoa..] ... As for including Syria in this well the quite only reason such a faction should be included as playable would be in conjunction with KoJ otherwise some upped rebels could play its historical role ...

Otherwise good job and I hope to play your mod soon - I do hope it will be fun

The irony: you said "I respect you guys work" and then only criticise it. Without even backing up any of you statements? At least read the topic you posted on:

Genoa is represented as: "Comuni Liberi (Free Communes: Milan, Genoa)"

KoJ (non-existent at the start date!) is represented by the Papal faction, and I hope you know Salahuddin was a Syrian noble, right?

And please, please, don't post your opinions as if they are facts. The thing about MedIII is just ridiculous.

Edited by Meneth: Please be a bit less aggressive in your posting.

[mynameisowen]

Well I am not impressed - sorry to say so. For me a game, a mod, not featuring Genoa but featuring Armenia and Georgia isn't worth playing. I respect your guy's work but I think that when choices have to be made western states such as Genoa were far more important and had far far more impact on history than those small eastern kingdoms which did nothing other than struggle for existence for some centuries. Genoa as Genoa but KoJ or the Teutons .. yes yes it's a bit a-historical but then again your whole mod is completely a-historical if you come to think about it and not because of you guys but because of the limitations of the game engine. Agreed mtw2 or for that matter any CA game will never ever compare to EU in terms of representing history ... but then again I think you guys should consider that those who will play your mod [which will last for about 1 year cause by the end of 2012 I and many others expect a MTW3 from CA] will do so to have fun - and fun means small western factions with a tons of unique units [such as the teutons koj or heh.. genoa..] ... As for including Syria in this well the quite only reason such a faction should be included as playable would be in conjunction with KoJ otherwise some upped rebels could play its historical role ...

Otherwise good job and I hope to play your mod soon - I do hope it will be fun

I dont expect you to find many people agreeing with you on this.

Popular culture depicts the medieval age as being the weastern-eruropean-age it wasn't. So much was going down everywhere and the conflicts fought on the eastern front of christianity, in those very lands your talking about, where at the forefront of the muslim, turkic and mongol invasions that engulfed the region.

[Los San Patricios]

Besides, even if M3TW will be released (though Rome 2 is far more likely) 'soon' it doesn't mean DotS won't be played anymore.
It's naive to think that a rushed vanilla TW will better than DotS even if it has some flashy new features. Also, future TW games most likely won't be very modable so the release M3TW won't make DotS worthless. In the 'best' case because DotS will still be the most historical accurate, but most likely also because it simply has far more depth.

[sumskilz]

Well I am not impressed - sorry to say so. For me a game, a mod, not featuring Genoa but featuring Armenia and Georgia isn't worth playing. I respect your guy's work but I think that when choices have to be made western states such as Genoa were far more important and had far far more impact on history than those small eastern kingdoms which did nothing other than struggle for existence for some centuries. Genoa as Genoa but KoJ or the Teutons .. yes yes it's a bit a-historical but then again your whole mod is completely a-historical if you come to think about it and not because of you guys but because of the limitations of the game engine. Agreed mtw2 or for that matter any CA game will never ever compare to EU in terms of representing history ... but then again I think you guys should consider that those who will play your mod [which will last for about 1 year cause by the end of 2012 I and many others expect a MTW3 from CA] will do so to have fun - and fun means small western factions with a tons of unique units [such as the teutons koj or heh.. genoa..] ... As for including Syria in this well the quite only reason such a faction should be included as playable would be in conjunction with KoJ otherwise some upped rebels could play its historical role ...

Otherwise good job and I hope to play your mod soon - I do hope it will be fun

lol

[Walkman810i]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well I am not impressed - sorry to say so. For me a game, a mod, not featuring Genoa but featuring Armenia and Georgia isn't worth playing. I respect your guy's work but I think that when choices have to be made western states such as Genoa were far more important and had far far more impact on history than those small eastern kingdoms which did nothing other than struggle for existence for some centuries. Genoa as Genoa but KoJ or the Teutons .. yes yes it's a bit a-historical but then again your whole mod is completely a-historical if you come to think about it and not because of you guys but because of the limitations of the game engine. Agreed mtw2 or for that matter any CA game will never ever compare to EU in terms of representing history ... but then again I think you guys should consider that those who will play your mod [which will last for about 1 year cause by the end of 2012 I and many others expect a MTW3 from CA] will do so to have fun - and fun means small western factions with a tons of unique units [such as the teutons koj or heh.. genoa..] ... As for including Syria in this well the quite only reason such a faction should be included as playable would be in conjunction with KoJ otherwise some upped rebels could play its historical role ...

Otherwise good job and I hope to play your mod soon - I do hope it will be fun

Epic rant! lol

[Jimmy-j]

Besides, even if M3TW will be released (though Rome 2 is far more likely) 'soon' it doesn't mean DotS won't be played anymore.
It's naive to think that a rushed vanilla TW will better than DotS even if it has some flashy new features. Also, future TW games most likely won't be very modable so the release M3TW won't make DotS worthless. In the 'best' case because DotS will still be the most historical accurate, but most likely also because it simply has far more depth.

True, I am still playing Rome and Medieval 2, simply because they have better mods than Empire and Napoleon, and vanilla is plain boring.

[Rilder]

Besides, even if M3TW will be released (though Rome 2 is far more likely) 'soon' it doesn't mean DotS won't be played anymore.
It's naive to think that a rushed vanilla TW will better than DotS even if it has some flashy new features. Also, future TW games most likely won't be very modable so the release M3TW won't make DotS worthless. In the 'best' case because DotS will still be the most historical accurate, but most likely also because it simply has far more depth.

Yeah this, M2:TW and RTW is will continue to be the crowning Jewels of CA, simply because moddability. Unless CA can actually start allowing modding again then they will never be able to top M2:TW and its plethora of awesome mods.

[VINC.XXIII]

well, sorry if I nourish the polemic, but how is come this concept to make Milan and Genua in the same faction?
I would say, this is really accurate before 975 AD, after not. Under the reserv then one feudal house was enough powerfull to resist against the communal pressure from the Genoese commune both of the pressure from Milan.
oh also..., my wish isn't to see Genua as separate playable faction, why not a rebel faction, with proper name?(not an emergeant one, just preplaced rebels at the start, helped with strong garrison)

[Resurrection]

well, sorry if I nourish the polemic, but how is come this concept to make Milan and Genua in the same faction?
I would say, this is really accurate before 975 AD, after not. Under the reserv then one feudal house was enough powerfull to resist against the communal pressure from the Genoese commune both of the pressure from Milan.
oh also..., my wish isn't to see Genua as separate playable faction, why not a rebel faction, with proper name?(not an emergeant one, just preplaced rebels at the start, helped with strong garrison)

It has been mentioned many times already. Having the two in one faction at the start != they are in the same faction. It basically means that we have put two factions into one slot and it's up to player's choice which one he will choose AFTER he starts the game. For the historicity sake we include one choice already in place (I think Milan is the capital in case of Comuni Liberi). That means that unless you change your mind in the first few turns the Genoa will rebel. If you ever wish to play as Genoa you simply conquer the city and move your capital there. Needless to say the Milan will rebel in that occasion. Both choices will have its unique features and emphasize. We also consider the model where the other city won't actual rebel but will be limited to colony level (basically no player control). If it was ever developed beyond that it will rebel unless made capital...

The same model applies for Comuni Toscani.

The reason for this is obviously the faction limit and that we really wanted to feature the Northern Italy as fragmented as it historically was but simply could not spend 5 or more factions slots there... In our opinion this is quite elegant solution to the problem and it actually has historical grounds.

[VINC.XXIII]

thanks for the umpteeth explanation in this case.
Yes I understood fully about the engine's limitation, no problem.
Neverthless, I still thinking its a stake against Genua, I see around the power of Genua isn't valued to his exact proportion.
If the Dots team have a preference for Milan(in despite of your new system), as I said you should simply make Genua rebel since the starting.

as last question, the name of the faction will change after the "putch"/rebellion...etc?

[Hengest]

It seems to me that yours is a personal thing, there are many factions that could be argued in this way. We have had people arguing for everything from Bosnia to Wales--- and that isn't to belittle their arguments. You could just as easily argue against Syria, Sweden, Portugal etc. But all our choices is based on the arguments of hundreds of 'expert' researcher members for over three years, and all the settlements and factions were finally decided based on a survival of the fittest through all our arguments. So theoretically this was the best outcome we could acheive as a large project.

Genoa was not an important faction in 1080, Pisa was. Florence was not. Milan became an important faction before Genoa. With two slots we have had to make decisions, by including all four I think we did good Daddy. Making Genoa rebel would mean that Milan would have to conquer Genoa to activate it into the campaign. Genoa under Milan is not a good representation. Having them in some form of duumvirate using the settlement 'lockdown' script and the use of rival generals from the other city state means we can give power to these complex politics. I hope this doesn't seem like another umpteenth explanation...

It's not possible to change a faction's name in game as yet, we think we have a way to do it but it's really not important yet and will not be in the first release.

[VINC.XXIII]

no Hross, I wouldn't debate about the importance of Syria and others mentionned.
Otherwise the importance of Milan, Pisa and Genua can be debated ad vitam aeternam, too, but I wouldn't waste my time and the yours.
"Genoa under Milan is not a good representation", true, and the contrary is also an ignorance of the physic's laws.
An exploded italian map is quite enjoyable for me. I'm not really partisan to see one strictly italian faction with the full lordship in Italia.
anyway I wait to test your excellent mod, thanks to everyone for the explanations
good continuation

[WinsingtonIII]

So I take it that if you control Genoa as the Communi Liberi and have Milan as your capital, Genoa rebels? Does this mean it will never be possible to conquer Genoa as Milan? Or is this only something that happens in the first few turns and after that you can conquer the other?

[betto]

All units generals Making all units generals with traits, loyalty and other stats, strengths and weaknesses

that mean that all units will regen ?

[Hengest]

Not all units will be generals, only the ones of lower nobility and upwards. Basically any unit from a class that could produce a notable leader- so even professional units and mercenaries would fall under that category. Yes they would regnerate, I haven't discussed it with the EDU coders but I think it's possible to change that, if we wanted to.