TWC Modding Awards Winners 2010

[Okmin]

Trying to give out awards to all members of dozens of teams is a logistical nightmare.
Giving almost anyone an award is pointless.
We already have a system to award individual modders.

These are my three major points against giving out team awards. Feel free to prove me wrong.

Completely agree, which is why I think the award should be given to the mod's thread/forum. Like what shokh suggested:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I think there are more problems when each teammember of an winning mod get an badge.
Some teams are really big and have about 10 member or more. If we only count 5 members in each team it will be a very high amount of given badges each year.
You can say half of all modders who are in a hosted mod team, without to score their personal effort and quality of their work in this mod, will get automatically an award each year.
And then we have many who helped out an mod with an intro/promo-video or research etc. It´s very difficult to say then he is getting an award and he not.

You should not forget that every of this members have also the chance to win an award outside of the mod-votings.

So what i think is that it would be the best to simple give the mods himself the award (not each member), maybe with an prefix in the mod title.

For example:

[Meneth]

I don't think that's possible, but I'm not sure.
I recommend mod teams that want to show their mod's awards put it in their release thread or similar.

[Okmin]

Ask the tech staff if it's possible?

['Gunny]

It is definitely NOT possible, you need a whole new skin to do that

[shokh]

Is it really that important for many that when a mod won an award that every member have under his avatar the small symbol?
Is the award then more worthy as when the team can post it into their forum?

I don´t think it is. But when this is that important i will not wear one anymore.

The deserved tribute for the teams work is granted with the actual system, everyone can present this shiny award in a showcase, in his mod reviews/previews.

To give all teammember an own award is, as stated out more times now, never fair handled and make in most cases the "single person" awards pointless if not the whole award system.

[Okmin]

Is it really that important for many that when a mod won an award that every member have under his avatar the small symbol?
Is the award then more worthy as when the team can post it into their forum?

I don´t think it is. But when this is that important i will not wear one anymore.

The deserved tribute for the teams work is granted with the actual system, everyone can present this shiny award in a showcase, in his mod reviews/previews.

To give all teammember an own award is, as stated out more times now, never fair handled and make in most cases the "single person" awards pointless if not the whole award system.

Well said...

[Killerbee]

No, please don't give awards to team members. Imagine if RS or TATW had to do that, half TWC would be a winner. + all the arguments about friends, who contributed enough, ...

Please, please don't.

[ToonTotalWar]

Orlets say toons all in one won (or dmuc)... Quite justifyibly you would be handing out around 50 awards...

Not neccesarily, lets use my "All In One" mod as an example, this mod was put together by me from scratch, then I drafted Gary as research member, MorganH and Airborne Guy as forum administrators, thats only 4 members.

The mod itself as you know uses many other members work and you are correct at stating that there are probably 30 other members work included in mod, but they dont have any actual involvement on the day to day running of the All In One mod as I created the mod and spent many hours and days making the mod happen so the community gets to enjoy it!
I do however include and agree that credit should be given where it is due and I always include every members contribution within the credits. To give them also an award I disagree.

I understand that all the mods I use within AIO mod are accessable within many areas of each forum and the members have there own choices to also vote for the 30 or so mods on an individual basis via there own forums etc.. so they also get a fair chance to win there own awards!, correct??

So with this in mind the contributors of members providing mods would not receive an award as I understand the awards are given to mods on there own individual merit (as mentioned above, and TWC members can vote if they wish on which mod they like) and the awards be given to the specific team members who are activley involved on a day to day basis only.

Its really simple and the above would work 100% in my opinion.

No, please don't give awards to team members. Imagine if RS or TATW had to do that, half TWC would be a winner. + all the arguments about friends, who contributed enough, ...

Please, please don't.

I disagree, if you look at the current TWC members overall there are 104,221 members, I think if the teams got there own awards with all there members you would only be scratching the surface of say 1,000-2,000 active mod members?? my figures may be wrong here of course.

Or, you've got a friend who did a little work on some descriptions (with an emphasis on "little"), and give him an award just because he's your friend.

Well that's down to each Mod leader to establish, if that person is worth the award so be it!

Giving out awards to all members of a mod, as Hedge Knight's example shows, works badly even when not abused.
It is, therefore, not a good system.

And to reiterate: We already have a system in place for awarding individual modders.

hmm..I think not..there is a time for change and that time is now

No doubt you will be surprised to learn that I disagree.

How can you "cheapen" an award by giving it to people who deserve it. A team award should be exactly that, not something given to an individual, and it is rare, but not unknown, for a mod to be completed by one person. Furthermore, an award is not currency, merely recognition that one has made a contribution to modding and the TWC community as a whole. So what does it matter if one or one hundred win it?

"Furthermore, an award is not currency, merely recognition that one has made a contribution to modding and the TWC community as a whole. So what does it matter if one or one hundred win it?"
You took the words out of my mouth mate!!

Trying to give out awards to all members of dozens of teams is a logistical nightmare.
Giving almost anyone an award is pointless.
We already have a system to award individual modders.

These are my three major points against giving out team awards. Feel free to prove me wrong.

I dont see it a logistical nightmare??, as I explained in earlier post the decision is made my the mod leader and the awards are distributed accordingly? The Mod leader would PM an admin and then that award will be given to that member, whats so difficult in that system? simple really

Is it really that important for many that when a mod won an award that every member have under his avatar the small symbol?
Is the award then more worthy as when the team can post it into their forum?

I don´t think it is. But when this is that important i will not wear one anymore.

The deserved tribute for the teams work is granted with the actual system, everyone can present this shiny award in a showcase, in his mod reviews/previews.

To give all teammember an own award is, as stated out more times now, never fair handled and make in most cases the "single person" awards pointless if not the whole award system.

Mod leader makes the decision on who gets an award, this is a fair and easy assumption to make from each mod leader and this will ensure that all members who have involvement in any mod gets there recognition

...as Tony83 stated: "Furthermore, an award is not currency, merely recognition that one has made a contribution to modding and the TWC community as a whole. So what does it matter if one or one hundred win it?"

[Tony83]

Regardless of the naysayers (think "positive waves" guys, it's much more fun living in a "Can do" world ), I think that this idea should go forward and be implented. However, this is probably not the thread to achieve this, but if I am in any way involved in next year's awards I shall be most certainly be advocating its adoption. The work our modders do enhances and prolongs our enjoyment, long past what the vanilla offerings are able to do, and they are therefore, in my opinion, deserving of any recognition and encouragement that we, as grateful players, can provide.

[Meneth]

I understand that all the mods I use within AIO mod are accessable within many areas of each forum and the members have there own choices to also vote for the 30 or so mods on an individual basis via there own forums etc.. so they also get a fair chance to win there own awards!, correct??

I understand that all members contribution to the AIO mod are accessible within many areas of each forum and the members have their own choices to also vote for the 4 or so modders on an individual basis via their own profiles etc.. so they also get a fair chance to win their own awards!, correct??

Well that's down to each Mod leader to establish, if that person is worth the award so be it!

The moment people who've done next to nothing start getting modding awards, is the moment I PM an admin asking him to remove my award.

I dont see it a logistical nightmare??, as I explained in earlier post the decision is made my the mod leader and the awards are distributed accordingly? The Mod leader would PM an admin and then that award will be given to that member, whats so difficult in that system? simple really

Did you see how long it took to award 30-40 members their awards? Now multiply that by 30-40 teams.

[Tony83]

... Did you see how long it took to award 30-40 members their awards? Now multiply that by 30-40 teams.

And how long do you think it takes to get a ruddy mod together? What you're moaning about is just an administrative issue. If more help is need then get the bodies to do it - and then give them an award for being bloody admin heroes!

[Hengest]

Surely the Team Leader can nominate which of his team members should get the award and just as in the case of patronising a citizen some paragraph of info saying what the guy has done should be enough. It could even be restricted to say 5 members who represent the main team members. There are a number of ways that would work democratically

Admins are the only ones who can give out awards.
Giving anyone else the power would be easily abused.

If an individual member is deserving of an award, (s)he will win the member part of the Modding Awards. Individual members are thus covered already.
If your mod has won an award, do what many other teams did:
Put it in the mod's (release) thread, and mention it in your next promotional video.

[Meneth]

And that's the sort of thing that has the potential to tear a team apart.

[shokh]

Mod leader makes the decision on who gets an award, this is a fair and easy assumption to make from each mod leader and this will ensure that all members who have involvement in any mod gets there recognition

Maybe not in your or my team, but i can predict this will cause controversial, nepotism and cheating.
Also i prefer that my mod get the award and not i or member xy. I prefer 10 times more an compliment from my modleader then an virtual award under my avatar when i´ve done my part for this mod.
And as stated out many times, if this teammember for example do an overall excellent job in skinning he will get his award for his work in the category for single-modders.

Be sure i don´t say this because i have got one. But i cant agree with such an system.
What i would support is to add a few more single awards.

[.Mitch.]

I would be one of those people who would quite happily call any of my friends here 'mod members' so they could get a little shiny award.

There are reasons why this hasn't been done, and won't be done.

[♔Old Dragoon♔]

Cleared up.

Now that all the congrats are over, I would just like to have a few things cleared up before the next years awards.

1: Advertising of mods, this year it wasn't clear as to the rules regarding this until half way through the process, until admin (Squid) stepped in and said that advertising wasn't allowed, so anyone who might have "mistakenly" advertised their mods, may have had a distinct advantage over other modders, at least until half way through the awards voting?
However going by previous modding awards, it seems advertising used to be common place? so who can be blamed for thinking it was allowed?
Speaking from recent experience, advertising certainly is not allowed and one can lose their award over it.

2: The categories this year, new categories were added, but what about categories in previous years such a best Music mod, there is some excellent modders who should be recognized for making their own music, piano pieces etc.regardless music was left out this year.

3:Recipients: As has been discussed about mod team members, it would be a logistic nightmare, however as Toon mentioned the team leader receiving the award? I dont agree with that, if the mod has been worked on by other members formerly in any capacity, then why shouldn't all team member receive the same award, if its a logistic problem... as Tony83 rightly said, more volunteers next year and planned at least a month or more ahead?

Personally speaking I didn't get involved this year with the modding awards, because of a situation I found myself in (great timing) I almost asked for my award to be removed at one point, but going forward hopefully some of the concerns I mentioned could be cleared up before next years awards.

Good points my good man! These should not be neglected lads...Everyone wants a fair and decent competition and all that. And these suggestions simply are designed to help in that cause. Good effort indeed!

[ToonTotalWar]

I understand that all members contribution to the AIO mod are accessible within many areas of each forum and the members have their own choices to also vote for the 4 or so modders on an individual basis via their own profiles etc.. so they also get a fair chance to win their own awards!, correct??


The moment people who've done next to nothing start getting modding awards, is the moment I PM an admin asking him to remove my award.


Did you see how long it took to award 30-40 members their awards? Now multiply that by 30-40 teams.

In answer to your three points:

1. Yes thats correct but I am not discussing the "All In One" mod, I used that as an example. If we must discuss the mod in question then it is my TAR mod that received an "award" and myself and team cannot have a shiny pixel for all our hard work and effort!!!! this is what really has got my back up and I am disappointed that the team do not get any recognition for there hard work! the least we should get is a tiny pixel under our names for our contribution to TWC, simple as that.

2, Thats your opinion and if you had noticed what I stated earlier that the responsible mod leader for there mod nominates each team member to have the award, it is down to that person and not an admins resonsibility. So if there was any complications on who should deserve the reward it would be decided by the individual mod leader! this is turn would take any problems from yourselves as admins etc..

3. No excuse!!! there is more than enough admins to get through each mod and give the rewards to each member. As Tony83 stated it takes a lot longer to make a mod than send a simple PM to let a member know they have received an award.

Maybe not in your or my team, but i can predict this will cause controversial, nepotism and cheating.
Also i prefer that my mod get the award and not i or member xy. I prefer 10 times more an compliment from my modleader then an virtual award under my avatar when i´ve done my part for this mod.
And as stated out many times, if this teammember for example do an overall excellent job in skinning he will get his award for his work in the category for single-modders.

Be sure i don´t say this because i have got one. But i cant agree with such an system.
What i would support is to add a few more single awards.

Good point mate, my stance is the same as before if you have good team members and if they get recognized on there own merits thats fine! but if they are part of a team on a mod they should be recognized even more not just for there individual efforts they should be also recognized for there part of a "team" effort. So be it they get two awards thats even better!!
I run two mods and this to me would not be any logistical problem, I know who is part of my team and who is not.

Edit by Meneth: Don't double post. Further double posts will be merged or deleted.

[T.C.]

I know who is part of my team and who is not.

But what gives you the right to decide what contributors are worthy of an award or not?

[Meneth]

@Toon:
First things first:
The image isn't "a tiny pixel". It's an image compromised of several pixels, 1295 to be exact. So please stop calling it "a pixel"
1. Just put the award in the mod's thread. There's your recognition.

2. Which, in my opinion, devalues the awards and as I stated, if people started getting official modding awards for doing little to nothing, I would ask to have my own award removed as it would just be a bunch of completely meaningless pixels. Also, I'm not an admin (note the lack of a hex badge under my name). I'm only one of the people on the modding awards team (if you're wondering, I got on here by volunteering)

3. I'm a modder. I know how much work goes into making a mod. The amount of work that goes into a mod is not a good argument for giving out huge amounts of awards. Also, to my knowledge, for an admin to give an award is far from as simple as "send a simple PM to let a member know they have received an award".

And please stop double-posting.

[ToonTotalWar]

But what gives you the right to decide what contributors are worthy of an award or not?

If I am mod leader, I make the decison on who gets the awards!, I have a very hands on approach and I am fair on my assumptions and I would quite easily make the decisions in a realistic timeframe. Is there anything wrong with that?

@Toon:
First things first:
The image isn't "a tiny pixel". It's an image compromised of several pixels, 1295 to be exact. So please stop calling it "a pixel"
1. Just put the award in the mod's thread. There's your recognition.

2. Which, in my opinion, devalues the awards and as I stated, if people started getting official modding awards for doing little to nothing, I would ask to have my own award removed as it would just be a bunch of completely meaningless pixels. Also, I'm not an admin (note the lack of a hex badge under my name). I'm only one of the people on the modding awards team (if you're wondering, I got on here by volunteering)

3. I'm a modder. I know how much work goes into making a mod. The amount of work that goes into a mod is not a good argument for giving out huge amounts of awards. Also, to my knowledge, for an admin to give an award is far from as simple as "send a simple PM to let a member know they have received an award".

And please stop double-posting.

Lol!! sorry for double post

1. that has been done, I am only defending the rest of the team who seem to get no recognition as there are many modders who work in background and it would be nice to give them some recognition!

2. "Shiny pixel" is just a term I have seen used on this forum a lot, if we want to rename it to "Award Crest" thats fine by me.

3, Ok so your a modder as well so you know the time and effort that goes into mod making! do you think it would take six months to give everyone an award that deserves one? I think not. As mentioned before, if you give this responsibility to the Mod Leader for example: (Darth Vader -Darth Mod, King Kong - TATW) these mod leaders will know who deserves the "Award Crest" from there contribution, modding, research or whatever the individuals responsibility has been on that mod. it is very simple process and the members who do not receive an award, this will make them more hungry next time to work harder on there mod contribution to get there reward!!