Consulate of Septimus and Scaeva - 541AVC

[Nota']

Poplicola, you are developing a habit of telling these senators what to think and do. They are all alive and autonomous, even old Canus here.
*The remark is met with laughter from some of the senators, and a disgruntled look from Senator Canus*
Now where to start? Ah yes. Poplicola, you do realise that to make a continous front from Trans-alpine Gaul to Iberia would require teh taking of Massalia, a greek colony, who we happen to be allied with at the moment. I am not suggesting we form this front you speak of. The alps are without doubt a more formidable than these puny streams you speak of.

You do overestimate Macedon, they are relatively weak at the moment, however if we were to attack them many more men could be raised by them in defense of their home. Men who would otherwise never see a Roman in combat, never fashion their farm tools into weapons. Think of Macedon as a hornets nest if you will, if left alone it will send the odd hornet to sting us, we can repel this aptly. If we attack the nest we end up facing a swarm, something much more dangerous than a lone hornet.

You say I want to attack the entire world, hah, I don't know about your geography but the entire world encompasses a little more than some independent celtic tribes in Cisalpian Gaul.

[dragoon47]

So not only does he disrespect the military and the planning behind it, the orders of battle, now he even disrespects our elders?! If he doesn't respect our elders still living how would he respect our ancestors long passed away? He wishes now to upset the enter mos maiorum and see Rome fall to her knees in perpetual warfare against small tribes.

Those tribes can band together as easily as any other. They will unite against their common enemy, dropping their swords in combat with each other to throw sticks, stones and spear upon our men and torches into our cities until we have a second Gallic invasion on our hands with but a single legion to defend ourselves with. filled with lighter troops which are outclassed in every way by the Boii and Belgae.

I would also like to remind this body, that there is land beyond the coast of Massilia that can form the rest of the continuous front I speak of, so maybe it is not my geography that is in question but in Consul Scaeva's analytical skills to see beyond what is in front of his face and see what might become. I will also remind this body that the Alps weren't so formidable when Hannibal conquered them with his elephants and marched across the entirety of Rome afterward without support.

He says I overestimate Macedonia yet every possible counter-argument to helping our allies there is shot down by him because he believes them to be even more powerful than our own legions. Macedonia can crush Greece under her heel, slaughter Sparta, I wonder where this consul gets his intelligence given that we have no agents to see past our own Illyrian border let alone judge troops quality and strength from the few skirmishes we've encountered.

I hope this body now sees consul Scaeva for what he truly is, a shadow of great men who attempts to bask in the glory of others and if he cannot have that he will take it, whatever the cost.

[Tazgrent]

Cassius slowly walks in.
"Senators of Rome! I have recovered from my long wasting illness. It has been years since I have had the pleasure to take my seat amongst this august body. I have been kept informed, however. My good brother Valerius is correct: The armies of Rome should reflect our STRENGTHS!
Cassius lowers his head and stretches forth his hands.
What do you know of our tales, gentlemen? Who but the hunters in our great land can use a bow? Where are our stories of great cavalry charges? But if I were to ask you to say... tell me of the three Horatii, or the stand of young Horatius at Tiber bridge, I am sure that, as they do in me, those tales bring forth pride and patriotic fervor! So it is in our army!"
Cassius raises his voice and begins gesticulating
"We are warriors! We fight man to man, staring our foe in the eyes over the rims of our shields! That is how *I* fight! That is how my ancestors fought, and by the GODS it is how my sons will fight! Our armies should reflect our greatest strength! Men of foot! Leave the horse prancing and bow casting to lesser men, mercenaries or auxiliaries. Leave it to us... us ROMANS... to stand and fight with sword in hand."

[dragoon47]

Lucius' eyes lit up with happiness, finally he had his ally back.

You heard the man, put the motion I placed to vote. If you don't, I don't need to remind you of the consequences.

Lucius stood down from him seat and embraced his friend for a few moments. Good to see you, he whispered and then he returned to his seat.

[Nota']

*Noticing the pause in Senate debate, Spurius takes this moment to update the senate on some current issues*
You will pleased to know that Akragas, Messana, Lilybaeum, Genoa and Pollentia have all recieved Client State status, and there has been no civil unrest in these settlements due to their new status.
There have been multiple riots in Galdir, our newly conquered Spanish settlement. These have turned violent and have caused casulties among the legion stationed there. Needless to say many natives died in the riots too. Martial law should have stopped the riots by now.

As many senators must already know, there are some brigands led by a 'General' Spurius located between the settlements of Tarentum and Crotona. They are raiding land trade routes, causing loss of goods, money and life to our merchants. No doubt you will agree with me that the quicker we deal with these men the better. Their armed force appears to consist of approximately 500 men. I propose we send the partially formed defense legion to the area to 'deal' with the culprits. Do any of you senators oppose me?

[AspisPhalanx90]

An urgent message arrives from Spain

Senators,
I write to you all with great urgency! Our spies have discovered the Heir to the Carthaginian throne just outside of Tingi, across the strait in Africa. I am writing to urgently request to take an expedition from Gadir to sack Tingi and, by the gods, kill the Punic dog. By doing so Senators, we can create a diversion to draw the Punic armies across the deserts to western Africa. Meanwhile, the senate can debate whether or not to strike Carthage itself! Senators, i do not wish to move on Tingi without approval from this noble body. However i urge you all to act quickly. This opportunity is not one i feel we should pass up. Scouting reports are as follows

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I Urge you all senators to make a quick decision on the matter. We can not wait much longer. I await your decision, noble Senate.

Gaius Julius Septimus

[Nota']

Due to the urgency of this request, I shall put it to the vote now. Vote quickly senators, so we can quickly give a response.

[chaplain118]

Scaurus stood up, more enraged at the lack of information than the news of the Punic prince's approach

Since when has our forces penetrated through all of Carthage's holdings in Hispania? Why was the Senate not consulted about such matters? Why have the individual commanders taken their own private thoughts and put them to actions. What, have they no value of our laws, of our customs? The expansions are illegal. We have no knowledge of what happened in those far away lands. Here I thought our forces were still beleaguered in Hispania on all sides by hostile Punic forces, but it is clear that we have not only beaten back the assault but have now become the role of the aggressor.

What, shall we endeavor ourselves to become the belligerent party and utterly destroy the enemy? We did not even do that with the defeated Italian cities. And what of the fates of the captured Carthaginian territories. Have we entered as conquerers in rape and pillage or as liberators of a cruel regime? Have we come into those cities to terrorize their citizenry or to free them from the yokes of oppression?

I will not let this illegal war continue any further. I call upon the rest of the Senate to act against the wars in Spain and prohibits any further belligerency abroad in the West. We should send forth an envoy and sue for peace, demand reparations from Carthage, and show restraint to the world, proving that we are better men, civilized men.

[dragoon47]

Now not only does he not respect our customs, our elders or our allies, now he wants to be the aggressor in this war against Carthage and lastly pushes through a bill that is unsupported by none but himself? At least when I was praetor I had the guts to proclaim martial law before taking over the government. This is what happens senators when the consuls are friends. They will no doubt work together to subvert the state and use it to their own ends.

I propose that the motion for a raid on Tingi to be canceled and as an optional addition to the motion that consul Scaeva step down from the office of consul and that a suffectus be voted in for the remainder of his term. We cannot stand idle while these men destroy the very fabric of this republic in the public eye and make other states view us as barbarian aggressors. Furthermore, I move that peace envoys be sent to Carthage and that we send men to map the areas of Spain we have already taken and make a census of the local tribes.

I also propose that consul Septimus be withdrawn from Spain for illegal warfare. His consular imperium ended when we took the metal mines of Cathargo Nova, he had no orders from this senate to penetrate deep into Spain without further orders so we are duty-bound to recall him to Rome with his men he left with. That is every Roman and allied cohort, including ones used for garrison duties being recalled the Rome. The client states there can form their own defense force without our help.

Make the correct decision senators, the world is watching.

[AspisPhalanx90]

a new face spoke up from the back of the Curia
Tell me, dear Censor, why should we offer peace terms to the Carthaginian dogs? Did they offer peace when they were in the heart of Italia? no i do not believe they did. They wanted us to be their protectorates! Bah! Peace for those dogs? they will never accept, nor will they listen. why waste an envoy on those fools? This is war senators, how are we to win a war with legal rabble restrict our commanders from effeciently waging war? So we took Carthago Nova. What then? we left Gadir and Tingi and the armies around them to regroup and return? You know full well that Carthage will not sit by while we reap the benefits of the Iberian mines. If we are to send an envoy, send it to the Iberian tribes! Other states will view us as barbarian aggressors you say? Who might i ask? Carthaginians? They are no better than the gauls. They invade our lands, burn our crops, and wish nothing more than our destruction. The Macedonians? They themselves see us as feeble Italics who do not understand true world power. Tell me, Censor, did any of the glorious empires of the past sit around and make peace with all their neighbors? Look at Sparta, a prime example. They sit idly by, content within their own boundaries, and yet now they are weak and broken. We must at least eliminate the Carthaginian armies in Iberia and the regions around it. But what would i know, i am but a lowley senator, adopted by a patrician family with no credentials or luxuries.

However, Poplicola, you say these men, our consuls, are destroying the fabric of the Republic? Why then did you dismantle the office of Tribune? Why then did you wish to strip all its power? Because you were beaten by Gracchus, the last Tribune who abused power? So you feel you can simply play on this body's fears and remove the office? Tribune Gerges is from what i have seen a noble man, and deserves to wield the power of Tribune. It is a sacred office that has always existed, and by essentially nullifying it, it is YOU who is destroying the fabric of this republic. Therefore, i propose a full reinstatement of Tribunal power immediatley. If this is done, i assure you Consul Septimus shall step down and return the legions to Garrison at Carthago Nova.

What say you senators? what say you Poplicola? can you swallow your pride for the good of this Republic?

[dragoon47]

Maybe you should learn a little history or check the scrolls once in a while. That law you speak of never got a majority vote and therefore failed. If you are going to threaten me boy I suggest you come with something to threaten me with. Now in a single first-impression I can say you're young, arrogant and quick to judge, not to mention ignorant of the truth around you.

You say your brother will only capitulate if the senate does what he wants? Since when does this senate take orders from a consul of Rome? Consul Septimus will step down when the senate says he does, not when he gets his way like a child. He will bring his legions back to Rome, not Cathargo Nova or he will face the consequences.

Tribunal power is untouched, technically it still has the same powers, it's not this senate's fault that the people no longer trust the position enough to let the wielder of it gallivant around Rome like a tyrant. Then you say you are but a lowly senator, adopted by a patrician and that you have no luxuries. Are you mad?

You are his brother, regardless of adoption you now share his blood, you are a patrician, therefore you share in those luxuries. Do not try to tell this senate statements full of lies when we all know the way our system has worked for a very long time.

Lucius turns to the rest of the senate.

To finish it, he has just called us, the senate, the ruling class a rabble. He has said that peace is useless and somehow he even seems to know every little thought that the Macedonians are thinking yet he is not privy to our laws, customs or anything of import. You're lucky I don't view you as a spy.

Lucius turned back to Constantinus.

Is there anything else I must prove you wrong on? Good, consider yourself censured for your lack of vision. No young boy can come into this Curia and spread lies without suffering the consequences and since you seem unable to put together a convincing argument with even a shred of truth within it and instead choose to lie to, threaten and insult this senate with your first words here you've earned your censure, pray you don't get ejected from the Curia next time you want a fulfilling outburst.

I hope you can swallow the hit your reputation just took Flavius, assuming you had one before you entered these halls.

[Nota']

*Spurius chuckled*
And you were never one to insult the senate were you Poplicola. In fact I recall you once saying the senate lacked 'common sense'. I'm sure one could find more examples if one were to consult with the scribe here.

*Spurius whispers to some nearby freinds in the senate*
And here we see Poplicola beggining to flex the powers of Censor, ready to abuse them, just you wait.

[dragoon47]

Big words coming from a supporter of illegal warfare. At least when I "insult" as you say, probably not the word that best describes it, I spoke the truth. Unlike others in these halls such as yourself.

[Nota']

So you admit that you think these senators have no common sense? You say it is the truth? And you chastise me for insulting the elders? You insult every man in these halls and get away with it, yet fling accusations and threats at anyone who does anything remotely similar!

[RebelCub]

Varro stands, the terrible wound on his arm from Cannae no longer tucked into his cloak, but exposed for effect.

Comrades, you know me. It is likely there are few among you that have more hatred for these Punic babykillers than I. However, I will not support this proposition to attack across the waters into Africa. For one thing, this Senate has little to no information about our own troop strength. I can imagine conquering such large stretches of Spain has our forces already stretched thin.

Lastly, I submit that attacking into Africa is a terribly risky operation and should only be done with great planning. What if our transport fleet is destroyed and our men suffer a defeat on land? Where will they retreat to? Into the desert?

Gods above, we have seen too many thousands of good and noble Romans die because of inept leadership at the hands of the Punics. This has the makings of another such disaster.

I vote NO!

Varro sits.

[dragoon47]

Lucius smiled and tucked it into his hand.

So consul, do you dare to put the motion to a vote? by voting no this man supports my proposal or would you rather wait for someone to support the addition?.

[Nota']

In my eyes Senator, he has just placed his vote, giving reasons for his decision. Because of this 'confusion' I ask you, Varro, to please confirm this, or state your support plainly so it is not open to misinterpretation.
If there is support I will gladly put it to the vote. *Spurius puts emphasis on the word 'gladly'*

[dragoon47]

Yes please senator, I don't think you would propose your vote so openly without other motives such as ceasing this bill altogether would you? To me it makes no sense to think otherwise.

[chaplain118]

I support the motion put forth by Poplicola. Move it to a vote, Consul.

[dragoon47]

With support for certain sections of the motion I shall now formalize it.

I. The motion concerning a raid on Tingi shall be canceled.

II. Consul Septimus is to be recalled to Rome to face charges of Illegal Warfare.

Possible Amendments:

III. Consul Scaeva is to be removed from office and if possible be replaced with a suffectus.

Which part do you support Scaurus, the first or both?