Help with Late Era Byzantine Campaign

**gholin** · February 03, 2011, 11:40 AM

Hi guys.

I just installed SS 6.3 and I gotta say it sure is a lot harder than 6.2 and other previous versions! I have Savage AI installed because I wanted AI to war with me, but as the Byzantine Empire, I just can't get ahead even playing normal difficulty. Powerful rebels are all around me and start with the city I thought I should start with: Constantinople! The Turks, Hungarians, and Venetians all seem hostile and have huge armies to start with and I have militia and very little money to raise an army.

Venice just sieged one of my cities with a superior force and through superior tactics, I barely survived (Quite exciting, but a pyrhhric victory, nevertheless). Turkish archers and javileneers on a hill battle easily shredded my superior forces of cavalry and infantry in one battle, and I have large stacks of turks and Hungarians ready to crush me.

How can I stem the tide of limitless armies and forge my empire? I usually try to build my economy when I start, but it's so hard when I'm at constant threat of annihilation. I feel I need a better army. Any ideas on steps I can take to start cash flowing and fighting these rogues back that I might bring glory back to Rome? Maybe I'm just not used to aggressive AI lol. Thanks!

**Mihajlo** · February 03, 2011, 11:53 AM

Cant build your eco. first here. you must build armys fast, hire mercs. Try to get peace with at least one of your enemys: venice, hungarians or turks. Stay off from Constantinople in first few turns, try to take islands first and one or two towns in greece. After this-build your forces and some eco. At the very beginning you dont have gold to spend on buildings, and you dont have time either so building forces in first few turns,and fast conquering something is essential for later success.

**johnny_b_good** · February 03, 2011, 12:10 PM

I tried yesterday and now im playing venice.I think that you must blitz low upkeep settlements near you ...

**k/t** · February 03, 2011, 12:25 PM

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=203634

**DemonLord** · February 03, 2011, 12:31 PM

Wait a few turns buid in your army a bit and some naval units then try and take Athens and corinth. This will give you some economical boost and a good traiing center. but beware cause the latin rebel armies there are strong. i suggest starve them out and weaken them instead of assaulting.Even if someone beats you to Constantinople and gets the city first you can always take itback at a later time. Also try make peace aggremets and allow trade rights to all the nations around you. it will help

**gholin** · February 03, 2011, 02:02 PM

Thank you all for your suggestions! I will try these out! I was thinking my new strategy will be a blitz to eliminate the Turks quickly and take Corinth or Athens before the Venetians lust after my land. I see now that I need to think more during my first turn in each game and see what my situation is before I start my standard economic build up. We can't all start from a position of power, so gotta make one with some nations. Thanks again guys!

**Gnostiko** · February 03, 2011, 02:25 PM

To deter the Venetians, make use of the small fleet you have off the coast of Epiros, positioning it mid-way between Arta and Durazzo, close to the shoreline. It really does help to discourage amphibious assaults from them.

For the Turks, you have to alternate between defensive and aggressive play; in the field, their horse archer armies will decimate the first armies you can conjure up, due to the scarcity of elite troops you have. Turtle up, instead, and allow the Turks to destroy a few of their own stacks trying to assault your settlements. Use spies to keep an eye on understrength garrisons in Anatolia and then pounce with an army led by a family member.

Although Constantinople's rebel garrison is quite strong there are quite a few occasions where, historically accurate and all, the garrison will leave the city for various reasons. Make sure the Rebel stack isn't within retaliation distance of Constantinople and then strike!
Just started a Late campaign last night and managed to recapture Constaninople within 20 turns after I noticed it was only garrisoned by two infantry units, the Latin forces having gone north to pester the Hungarians.

**Gogolometro** · February 03, 2011, 02:27 PM

My sugestion, versus europeeans use mercenary barraks, recruit schytion, will hurt venetians a lot. You need 2 turns to build and not to much money.
In Durazzo, send reinforcement all the time from Arta. This will be likely the target for a long time. In Durazzo only center square defence will work with contaroi and toxotai. Recruit there at least 1 balista and 1 catapult. Make wonders.
Let hungarians bleed at Macedonia and Thesalia. They will not get to Athena and Corint to early. Are at least 3-4 staks there to keep them very busy. Same for sicilian atacks at Corint.
Smirna is in danger like Durazzo, so send reinforcements, and wait there 2-3 atacks from turks.
Canalkale will be the force to defend Smirna and capture Adrianopole and Rhodos. Build there fast the baracks for scutatoi and archery range for murtadoi. Are very important in this part of campaign.
The Trapezunt is a easy to defend castle. Will get soon fortress, and focus to keep it garisoned, but use the soldiers maded from there to reinforce Nicea. Will be the key strategy there.
Bet on acritae, mounted or no, are excelent units in defence and offence.
The major steps are the Nicea battles. Once you got killed first two sieges of turks (can be just one, spy will tell you more), send a a half stack of heavy cavalry, general, HA, mounted acritae to Constantinople. Time is the key. Do this before turn 6, or you will face not a stack, but one and a half even 2 stacks of crusade rebels. Tactic works, the garison will be killed by you cavalry force, via charge, javelins and arrows shoot behind them.
Once get Constantinople, build imperial barracks, will take 12 turns and after build in 2 turns you can build scolari and siphonatores. This mean security for Constantinople and the rebuilding empire fundation. Next targets must be Adrianople, Iconium and Corint.Adeianople to secure the Thracia. This way hungarians will be less a problem. Iconium because is the turks capital, well developed and is a blow to their Anatholia strategy. This mean a castle and a city endangered by byzantium garison in Iconium.
Corint foir the fortress. Is the source for retake Greece.
If you lose Durazzo, press forward to retake ot, if you dont do this venice-hungary combo will make much harder life in Tessaloniki successfull aquisition.
Dont take Cesarea, and dont press there too fast. Turks are already busy with fatimids, crusaders and mongols. Are your buffer and shield.
Trust casthophilakioi. Their sword are recruited in 4 turns but are a extraordinary militia, what will make you to breathe more easy.
Keep in mind at this part athanoi is very strong offensive cavalry, so use them. Ally with crusades, this cut the teeth of venice, genova,sicily excesive presure. Even pope will not blocade your ports to fast.
Dont worry about economy, is strong and can be maded much stronger if you build in corect order.
I wish you good luck.

**Haraninm** · February 04, 2011, 09:01 AM

I'm playing 6.4, which starts you out at war with the Venitians and Turks. IV on, and VH VH

Messed around with two or three games to get used to 6.4; its been three or four years since I played MTW2 much.

First off, you have an unhistorical scattered empire. At this time, Antolia around Nicaea was it. So concentrate your money and manpower on Asia for the first ten turns. Albania can be sacrificed.

I sell Duranzo to the Hungarians for an allaince. That allows me to ignore the Ventians on the land and concentrate on taking crete, rhodes and defending against the turk.

Strip out the garrisons in Albania to nothing, load them up on the fleet near there and sail to crete. Have Vatatzis load up in the other ships, with the Cannakle garrison, and the horse archer from Nicaea. Dispatch that army with two spies to Rhodes, and then link up with the Albanian army at crete. Emperor uses the rest of the army to hold off the turks. Emperor and Latinkons can be a rapid reaction force cover. You can hold off the Turks for the first ten turns with a bit of skill.

By turn 5 you should have captured Rhodes and Crete. Leave that army, comprising most of your good troops and three generals on Crete with your navy. Use priests, spies and boats to scout out Greece, Thrace and Constantipnoble. When the rebels go meandering around, snatch up unprotected cities, using your two spies to open gates. Use the crete army on boats.

By turn 10 you should have taken at least one if not two locations in greece. When you can, take Cornith. Once you have that, you can replace your profesional army as needed.

Perserve your troops. Avoid the large stacks of rebels until you can replace your losses.

By turn 20 you should have reconquored European Byzantium, including Constantinoble. Save up for the Schoralli barrenks.

Build up an army, and hunt down the rebel stacks and start going on the offensive against the turks.

Merchant guilds everywhere, but one theologician's guild is good. Max out priests, and don't be afraid to over stack the priests. I tend to operate my priests in groups of 4; first priority is to get major production centers to 90% orthodox, then the remainder of my lands, finally offensive targets. If on a roll, and the enemy is weak, just get the religion outside major production centers to 90% and the rest to 50%.

Hammering the Turks hard and being carful as allowed me to conquror all of greece, thrace, and antolia over the past 30 turns. I just need to finish off three rebel stacks inside greece/thrace.

The key is to concentrate on the critical and let one front burn if you have to. You must reconquror constantipnoble as soon as practical, and cornith. The Islands are key, as a small investment in a navy garentees their protection such that they can provide a decent income stream.

Don't be afraid to sell land on a hostile border to an ally. Let them bear the costs of defense. After you get your economy humming along, you have an quality army and spare cash, you can always buy back the land... with AI funded improvements and growth

**Jambat** · February 04, 2011, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Haraninm

I'm playing 6.4, which starts you out at war with the Venitians and Turks. IV on, and VH VH

I would rep you but it seems I already have recently. This is a pretty much rock solid how-to that will help any Late Roman keep ticking at the start. Good job.

**gholin** · March 01, 2011, 06:23 PM

Wow, those are great tactics, Gogolometro and Haraninm. Thank you so much! I actually started over from my first game as I was starting to get massacred by focusing on economy first and being spread too thin. On my new campaign, I am currently battering the Turks and taking them down one province at a time, and the Venetians have yet to assault me. I'm taking all your advice, however, and I am now preparing for an assualt on Rhodes and Crete. If an enemy army seems to be interested in Durazzo, I'll quickly sell it to an ally and fall back a bit so I can take the rebels down, letting my ally deal with the vile foe. I'm also watching Constantinople, the stack of Latin rebels has moved a few times but it hasn't returned and seems to have moved northwest, so I'm about to zip in there and take it. Thanks for the advice guys!

**Ichon** · March 01, 2011, 10:41 PM

I also usually find Durazzo the easiest to ignore. Not much profit there and so out of the way from reinforcements. I usually divide my army first turn and use smallest portion with Emperor to take the islands as the Emperors BG by itself can nearly win most battles. Use the majority to go on the offensive in Anatolia. The Turks first few turns are disorganized and have few forces west. Grabbing what you can and smashing it(raze all military buildings but not econ) slows them down a bit. Then by the time that is done the islands should be secured and you can combine the armies back together to start retaking best areas. I find waiting for the Latin rebels to abandon a city sometimes takes awhile and your combined army should be able to handle a fight with one of their armies. They aren't weak however so don't do this if you can't get good terrain and all your somewhat veteran armies together in one spot. I prefer to take Corinth or Constantinople first as those are the most important early on. You'll lose between 1/2 to 1/4 your army probably in that battle but shouldn't lose any important units completely and can soon retrain them. This adds a new region quickly and reduces your army upkeep a bit. Hold with that captured region to build a bit of cash and use spy to see what Turks are doing. By this time they have retaken the parts of Anatolia you captured and likely be on the way to Nicea and Symara. I usually make a tough defense at Symara but if Turks come in strength its ok to lose it. Better the Turks go there then to Nicea. Constantinople and Nicea are vital for the economy. Castles are important but there are many in the region so any particular one isn't that important. By turn 10 I've usually got the islands, still holding Albania, parts of Anatolia, and Constantinople or Corinth. The issue with taking Corinth early is that usually leads the Latin rebels to sit in Athens but sometimes they move to your border leaving Athens undefended. However either result removes an obstacle to the Hungarians and opens a flank to potential Sicilian attack. I prefer Constantinople for many reasons but the garrisons there are strong and occasionally Turks, Sicily, and Venice come all at once which makes some touch choices necessary as you likely can't defend everywhere. I enjoy fighting Turks as Byzantines natural enemies most and also Anatolia is easier to defend than Greece initially so concentrate mostly there.

After turn 10 it can play out lots differently so hard to give advice. Every single game Venice comes at Durazzo at some point so... I usually hold it until see them approach and either give it too them for peace and trade or sell it to Hungarians to cause some fighting that bleeds both. Arta is then alone so I favor giving it to Genoa or Sicily to get more italians interested in fighting each other. Focus on securing Thrace and western Anatolia. Peace with Hungary early is a blessing but not always possible. With Gracul AI any peace is temporary anyway but in the first 25 turns it can make a big difference.