Haradrim Empire

[Tuskin4]

About expanding the Umbar troop tree i have a few ideas and pictures to give a concept.
Umbar Nobles mounted and dismounted(descendents of Umbar rebels and the Castmiri)


Umbar Guard Archers
Corsair crossbowmen

Umbar militia or Umbar levies

[CountMRVHS]

Aversion to crossbows is one thing this mod shares with Oblivion.

No crossbows in Tolkien. I'll admit the heavy cav / elite corsair unit idea is intriguing. But Scarlet Shields and Serpent Black seem to fill the "heavy" role quite well (and the AI *loves* to spam SS!).

Look at an AI Harad stack - there will be the usual rabble of low-quality footmen, but the one thing that makes Harad dangerous is its cav, which it trains in abundance.

[Aradan]

The role of Umbar nobles is played by the Umbar Guard; as for horsemen, Gondor was never big on horsemen and the Corsairs are sea-based, so I think the Umbarian lords would be influenced by the Haradrim in that regard, slowly joining the ranks of the Scarlet Shields (which are haradrim nobles), rather than forming their own heavy cav (a tradition they never really had).

[Tuskin4]

The role of Umbar nobles is played by the Umbar Guard; as for horsemen, Gondor was never big on horsemen and the Corsairs are sea-based, so I think the Umbarian lords would be influenced by the Haradrim in that regard, slowly joining the ranks of the Scarlet Shields (which are haradrim nobles), rather than forming their own heavy cav (a tradition they never really had).

I was thinking more variety in the Haradrim calvery. Also the Umbar people are very proud and woudnt join the empire 100% they like others(Far Harad, Harnen, Harondor, Khand, and other Haradrim tribes) would keep a sort of autonomy. The Umbar Nobles would just be basicly Knights and Knights need horses just like Gondor but they also fight on foot. As for tradition while the Corsairs fought at sea it was the but the Nobles(whom the Crosairs were subordinates to them) had to defend the land side of the country. They would of adopted calvery in order to fight Haradrim(before the rise of the Empire)

[Thangaror]

The role of Umbar nobles is played by the Umbar Guard; as for horsemen, Gondor was never big on horsemen and the Corsairs are sea-based, so I think the Umbarian lords would be influenced by the Haradrim in that regard, slowly joining the ranks of the Scarlet Shields (which are haradrim nobles), rather than forming their own heavy cav (a tradition they never really had).

I agree that Harad doesn't need any more cav! For Count is right, the AI spams SS which can become really annoying.

But I disagree that the Umbarian Lords would assimilate to the Haradrim. Remember who they were: They (mainly) were the descendants of Castamir the Usurper, a racist who revolted against his king because he married a woman of the Rhovanion people; a people far more worthy than the Haradrim.
Anyway I think, Umbar IS somewhat different from other realms in Harad, so, besides Umbar Guards, there maybe should be a stronger umbarian accent in the Haradrim army.

Actually I simply like the idea of "Black Númenóreans" ingame; ME:TW had them and they were awesome.

No crossbows in Tolkien. I'll admit the heavy cav / elite corsair unit idea is intriguing. But Scarlet Shields and Serpent Black seem to fill the "heavy" role quite well (and the AI *loves* to spam SS!).

Look at an AI Harad stack - there will be the usual rabble of low-quality footmen, but the one thing that makes Harad dangerous is its cav, which it trains in abundance.

Screw the AI!!! May Morgoth take it!

Darn, now I miss that "Eye of Sauron" smiley from ModRealms! We need a Dark Lord smiley here.

[Revelo]

I agree that Harad doesn't need any more cav! For Count is right, the AI spams SS which can become really annoying.

But I disagree that the Umbarian Lords would assimilate to the Haradrim. Remember who they were: They (mainly) were the descendants of Castamir the Usurper, a racist who revolted against his king because he married a woman of the Rhovanion people; a people far more worthy than the Haradrim.
Anyway I think, Umbar IS somewhat different from other realms in Harad, so, besides Umbar Guards, there maybe should be a stronger umbarian accent in the Haradrim army.

Actually I simply like the idea of "Black Númenóreans" ingame; ME:TW had them and they were awesome.



Screw the AI!!! May Morgoth take it!

Darn, now I miss that "Eye of Sauron" smiley from ModRealms! We need a Dark Lord smiley here.

I'm surprised no-one has done a macro of Morgoth or Sauron with a Trollface going "Problem, Middle-earth?" considering the amount of grief they caused the free peoples.

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

Why are the haradrim... white? I mean, by race. They looked (when I last played their campaign) pretty white (many of them) to me. IIRC they were the Tolkien's version of Africa.

[Stark1]

Tolkien's version of North Africa, to be precise. And there aren't many black people there. Men of Far Harad are described with much darker skintone and they probably equal subsaharan Africans.

[Thangaror]

Well, the Haradrians mostly cover they faces.
Serpent Spears, Scarlet Shields, all wear a scarf or a mail curtain. But they do have a darker skin than the Dúnedain. Also, the Dúnedain of Gondor were not of purely númenórean, or "hadorian" and "beorian", blood but had a lot of the "middle men" mingled among them.

[Guedes]

No crossbows in Tolkien.

I just saw the "Two Towers" again and the orcs on Helms Deep were using some crossbows... tought i dont know if it was only on the movies or it was on the books too.

[Aradan]

Peter Jackson's movies, though great (imho), are not exactly faithful to Tolkien's lore.

[Serech]

Ach, leaving stuff out is alright, minor changes are alright too, but changing major plot elements!
I haven't been very bothered about it really, just stopped watching for a bit when the bettle of Minas Tirith was going on.....

[Tuskin4]

I liked the movies they had plenty of the lore from the books.

[Guedes]

IMO Lotr movies is one of THE best book adaptations ever made in the history of cinema.

The great majority of book adaptations fail hard!

But i dont want to go off-topic here, so back to topic, i have no complain about haradrim unit on TNS, i think that they are just as it should

[Thangaror]

PJ SUCKS!

There are great scenes thanks to the amazing work of WETA and the awesome landscape of NZ. That's also the reason why FotR is the best part of the trilogy.
But I for one cannot watch the movies without going mad, seeing so many many great and stupid fails (all I say is: Skull avalange!).

[Revelo]

I liked the movies they had plenty of the lore from the books.

The base movies only alluded or hinted at most of the lore in Middle-earth. They had to strip down a lot to make them fit the timeframe. The extended editions do rectify this somewhat but there is still a lot lacking.

[Tuskin4]

The base movies only alluded or hinted at most of the lore in Middle-earth. They had to strip down a lot to make them fit the timeframe. The extended editions do rectify this somewhat but there is still a lot lacking.

The exdented editions were much better.

Besides there are worse Lord of the Rings movies then Peter Jacksons.

[Revelo]

The exdented editions were much better.

Besides there are worse Lord of the Rings movies then Peter Jacksons.

Just imagine if George Lucas had directed the movies, we would have had gems like:
- Emo Frodo yelling about how he misses Bilbo and The Shire
- Arwen in the Fellowship and thinking Aragorn is scum before falling for him.
- Aragorn battling Sauron with an army of Hobbits at the Black Gate.
- Classic lines like: "May the Valar be with you." or Denethor yelling: "It's a trap!" during the seige of Minas Tirith
- Eagles used as a big plot device, ending with a trench run style climax where Frodo has to throw the ring into Mount Doom from above and Gandalf saying: "Your all clear kid, now lets blow this thing and go home!"

And many more I can't list

[CountMRVHS]

Aragorn *is* a nerf herder...

Edit: oh yeah, the topic!

I think Harad is one of the more interesting factions in the 4th age. They have some potential to be more than just 2-dimensional "bad guys" here: they have claim to some (minor, and admittedly "bad") Numenorean descent; they were on decent terms with Gondor after the War of the Ring; and they could certainly have built up an impressive civilization with lots of diversity and the benefits of Numenorean-style military and technology.

At least, whenever I play one of the "bad" factions, that's how I justify my massive conquests.

[Tuskin4]

Just imagine if George Lucas had directed the movies, we would have had gems like:
- Emo Frodo yelling about how he misses Bilbo and The Shire
- Arwen in the Fellowship and thinking Aragorn is scum before falling for him.
- Aragorn battling Sauron with an army of Hobbits at the Black Gate.
- Classic lines like: "May the Valar be with you." or Denethor yelling: "It's a trap!" during the seige of Minas Tirith
- Eagles used as a big plot device, ending with a trench run style climax where Frodo has to throw the ring into Mount Doom from above and Gandalf saying: "Your all clear kid, now lets blow this thing and go home!"

And many more I can't list

heres one
Sauron:Aragorn im your father
Aragorn:NO!!!