the Aztecs?

[2ltben]

The campaign extends from the High Medieval Period to the very early Age of Discovery. The Aztecs are in because of Hernan Cortes. I propose a new acronym for this game, M2RAoD:TW, or Medieval II Renaissance Age of Discovery: Total War. I think this would be too much work to do for a couple dozen turns at the end of the game. Seeing as they already used the Mongols, guess what the expansion's going to be.

I'm far more concerned with why, out of all that is righteous and good in this world, Spain is a single faction.

[VaeVictis]

To be honest, I think Ca just threw us a curve to see how much we would ***** about it..

I sure hope so.

I agree that the addition of the Aztecs is not a very good idea.

At this point, the game will turn into more a historical fantasy.

Might as well give them the incendiary pigs, screeching women, and Eagle Warrior Bombardier Hangliders. :laughing:

Their time frame, new world location and religion just don't seem to fit in with Medieval Europe.

Age of Empires 3 maybe, but not MTW.

I would prefer them work on fine tuning the European campaign and perhaps adding in those factions that the hardcore fans are clamoring for the most.

The game still has a bit to go until it is released so they will have plenty of time to think about it.

[Kscott]

Well, in truth they arent, Ca just doesnt like calling them Castile....

Aragon is a faction aswell...

I think Valencia will be rebel like origonal.

In the beggining I dont think Castile should own Leon, but it is correct for the latter game..

[2ltben]

The addition of the Renaissance and AoD just seems like a small addition to make room for an expansion, they're cutting out most of the time period to make the time for it as well. They at least better have Hastings as a historical battle.

I still long for MTW to have feudalism, by extension given the time period, manorialism. The Crusader Kings system was great, you could choose your level of peerage and actually get to play as a lesser vassal, feuding among your own countrymen.

[Aztecateotl]

Yeah I'm a little worried about the Aztecs being in there as well. An interesting civilization yes but no match for the technology Medieval and Imperial Age nations. I know I'm gonna scream if I have heavily armed spanish infantry being routed by Aztec "Eagle Warriors." Nonethless interesting idea. I'm hoping more for the time period around the crusades with the Normans, English, Holy Roman Empire, Byzantines, Saracens, Turks, Mongols, etc. I hope there is a large part of that in the gameplay.

look up on your aztec history!! hint: Noche Triste meaning sad night was named after the spanish were routed and nearly killed once the aztecs revolted. The only reason they won(spainish) the war is because of diseases and the help of thousands of native who were conquered by aztecs so i cant see why you wouldnt see spanish routed by aztec warriors(when it actually happened in real life).

[Hansa]

As for playing the azteks, I think this could be a realistic scenario. You have a great empire, and you suddenly meet a small group of spanish soldiers. First, you cant fight them until they fight you, because you and your men consider them gods. Second If they have horses and attack your men will flee in panic, ''MONSTERS''. Maybe they will start figthing when there is no possibility of retreat. Possiblity: You kick them (the spanish) the hell out of the americas. What then? Sudenly you get a report. Disaster! unknown diseases, your people are dying like flies. Your civilisation is collapsing. The people have lost their faith in the gods and your rule, they are deserting your cities etc. I consider this scenario far more realistic than the posibility of ever having a chance against the europeans. This is of course if the game is remotely realistic.

[DrunkenMagician]

"New epic campaign. The ambitious single player campaign will span three continents and let players sail across to the Americas to confront the Aztecs on their home soil."

They only included them because it looks interesting on the box. I believe they WILL have a LOTT of FANTASY units. They should leave them out, and add some other interesting european faction. Maybe they can make an expansion called 'American Invasion' and include not only the Aztecs, but also the Maya, the Inca, etc. It would be far more interesting... (but also to big for a expansion i think...)

[Priscus]

Hi everyone!

BTW do any1 have a clue about what sort of units the aztecs are going to have? Or know a site where you can read about the weapons they used? just to get a better inside of how they are going to be in the game.

Here you go...

Something to read

A Gallery

other wise i dont see the challenge , of naked indians using rocks againts armoured europeans . im not an expert in history ,but if im not mistaken the spanish wiped the floor of Aztecs ,Mayas , and others cultures ,all the way to the INCas in south america ,very easily.

The Aztecs didn´t use rocks... But anyway, I would say 50.000 rock throwers against 500 conquistadores is a challenge...
The cause for the fall of the Aztec empire wasn´t the flu or better weapons but politics. The empire was based on oppression of other peoples and Cortéz saw the possibilities...

Noche Triste meaning sad night was named after the spanish were routed and nearly killed once the aztecs revolted.

First of all they weren´t routed. They were under siege in the capital and made an attempt to get out. Most of them died because they didn´t want to abandon the gold inspite of the fact that they had to swim out of Tenochtitlan. Greed killed most of them, not the aztecs


Well, an aztec scenario could be interesting, but I fail to see how they fit in a medieval period of time...

Anyway, my two cents... :original:

[Swe_gamer]

I think it could be an interesting addition and give some flavour to the game instead of making the exact same game with just better graphics etc. I want to see CA create a jungle environment and a new building set (if they don´t seee this as their big chance to include fantasy units).

Heavily armoured knights will be at an advantage in this climate, meaning that the invaders will have to focus on less armour as they had to do in real life and thereby evening the odds somewhat. You would also not be able to transport mass amounts of canons/troops etc thanks to the distance/costs associated or start full production right away. Don´t for a second believe that a few hundred spaniards defeated the massive Aztec population, a society heavily geared towards war (around 15 million people). The Aztec capital was destroyed on August 31, 1521. The final attack of Tenochtitlan (Mexico City) was led by the Spaniards who had 400 men with 150,000 native allies. I sure would have liked to see those 400 spaniards try that on their own .

I wonder how they are going to implement this bit though; will you be able to go on this quest when you have conquered Europe/achieved your victory conditions or will you be able to launch an invasion during the campaign and thereby drawing resources away from your main campaign? Will more than one faction contend for this area, with huge goldmines/slaves etc being the lure? I assume you can be able to use local tribes/mercenaries upon arrival as you probably will be heavily outnumbered.

With regards to revealing the map; all maps in the TW series have had straight boarders except STW thereby only focusing on a portion of a geographical area just like they would have to do in this case, really don´t see the difference.

Seeing forward to this part!

[DasBoot]

I think that a lot of the criticism of the inclusion of an aztec faction fails to recognise just how fortunate the Spanish were in Mexico. Cortes was very nearly killed early on in the expedition, and if he had died it would probably have ended right there. The Aztecs had an advanced civilization, and their defeat was certainly not inevitable. The fact that this did happen within the game's specified timeframe leaves me confused as to why people seem to think it doesn't belong in the period. It may not sound right, but it did actually happen, lets not pretend that it didn't. I think that it's a bold move of CA to go this way, and if handled correctly it could be a great advancement. To say that they should have just added another european faction is to miss the point, they're trying to expand the game a bit, I seriously doubt that there were a bunch of developers in a room deciding to drop Kiev or Bulgaria in order to accomodate the Aztecs, they're an extra which will probably not be a major part of the game.

[roman_crusader]

Maybe u don't have to go send an expedition urself. columbus might happen as a historical event. the americas are then mapped, and u send a ship or two to conquer it.

although this might be rather stupid.......

frankly, i'd rather they expand eastwards, and bring medieval and shogun together, as they should be.....

imagine, Eurasia: Total War. be the europeans, destroy the chinese or the other way round.

that would be lovely.......

[Aztecateotl]

First of all they weren´t routed. They were under siege in the capital and made an attempt to get out. Most of them died because they didn´t want to abandon the gold inspite of the fact that they had to swim out of Tenochtitlan. Greed killed most of them, not the aztecs

I've never seen greed kill anyone believe me i should know. I think if you throw a spear at someone is killing am i right? yeah it was the aztecs and i'm sorry for your pathectic explanation...lmao
and lets go back before they got to Tenochtitlan do you think they would have defeated the aztecs in the scorching dessert with the spaniards equiped with metal armour etc... they would have fainted, or in the densely jungle where guns would not make much of a difference... remenber aztecs thought they were gods thats the only way they got to Tenochtitlan(infecting thousands of people with diaseases)

[Swe_gamer]

I've never seen greed kill anyone believe me i should know. I think if you throw a spear at someone is killing am i right? yeah it was the aztecs and i'm sorry for your pathectic explanation...lmao

That is a bit harsh and if you don´t think greed has killed anyone in history I think you are the only one on this planet who has that conception, although "you should know" (what do you mean by that btw?). You are saying that it´s the bullet that kills, not the person pulling the trigger.

[Joar]

You don't seriously think that the Aztecs will be a playable faction? Has it not already been stated that a bonus map will be locked up?

I would be extremely surprised if the Aztecs and the Papal states were playable factions. And please don't say that CA already said they were going to be playable, because they haven't. They haven't decided on the playable factions yet, only announced which factions are in the game.

[KingOfTheIsles]

Is Aragon actually a faction? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

[Ringeck]

Whooops.

[KingOfTheIsles]

It is listed as one of the 21 playable factions in the MTW2 press release. If playing them is going to be any fun (I'm not waiting 15-500 years for coming into contact with any other faction!) they are going to have to limit them to a spesific scenario or essentially create a parallel game in the America, with more amerindian factions. God, let's hope they don't do that. Talk about diluting the concept of the game.

Are you talking about the Aztecs or Aragon?

[Ringeck]

Are you talking about the Aztecs or Aragon?

I'm blind! I'm blind!

[The Dane]

No the factions are: England, France, Scotland, Holy Roman Empire, Denmark, Spain, Portugal, Milan, Venice, Papal States, Sicily, Poland, Russia, Hungary, Byzantium, The Turks, Egypt, The Moors, The Mongols, The Tumurids, The Aztecs.

It's not known what factions are playable.

You can read it at:

http://pc.ign.com/articles/682/682437p1.html

http://pc.ign.com/articles/682/682409p1.html

[Kscott]

I have to admit I am extremely upset that Aragon isnt in, but the Aztecs are..