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Thread: the Aztecs?

  1. #1

    Default the Aztecs?

    you have got to be kidding me!

  2. #2

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    hope they well be playable for the campaign map this game is going to be the best yet for the pc!

  3. #3
    smoke's Avatar Positively positive
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    Yes strange choice indeed.
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  4. #4

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    im curious as to how they are going to be implemented..

    maybe a "ceasar in gual" type campaign? I don't think they'd put mesoamerica on the campaign map, how would it fit..? what type of cartogrophy would they use..? unless they just make a world map and have everything rebel.. lol which I doubt.


  5. #5

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    Yeah I'm a little worried about the Aztecs being in there as well. An interesting civilization yes but no match for the technology Medieval and Imperial Age nations. I know I'm gonna scream if I have heavily armed spanish infantry being routed by Aztec "Eagle Warriors." Nonethless interesting idea. I'm hoping more for the time period around the crusades with the Normans, English, Holy Roman Empire, Byzantines, Saracens, Turks, Mongols, etc. I hope there is a large part of that in the gameplay.

  6. #6

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    I'm more worried about how they will fit them on the map. If you add the Aztecs, then how in the world do you fill the rest of Central America. One also does not have to look too hard on the map to see the distance involved between the Old Continent and the New World - it takes long enough to sail from Rome to Alexandria (even in RTR)... I can't imagine trying Spain to the West Indies. Then of course you get into the problem of the massive technology gulf between the two cultures - an army of fast moving cavalry, modern metallurgy and gunpowder against an army of using primarily stone weapons and wooden (wicker?)/cloth armor - please, is this going to be a new case of "Desert Axemen" from Vanilla RTW?

    There is a reason the Aztecs were defeated by less than 200 Spaniards (social/political discontent among their subjects included)... I just cant see how adding the Aztecs to MTW2 can have any benefit to gameplay. The Aztecs seem a more appropriate faction to add in a (hypothetical) post-1492 title like Imperialism: Total War where the map is focused mostly on Western Europe and the New World.

    Adding the Aztecs to a map focusing on the clashes between Europe and the Near East starting in the 11th Century seems a bit odd, not even mentioning the several centuries of technological advancement needed in seafaring and navigation before routine and reliable trans-Atlantic transportation could occur. By the time the Western World had made contact with the Aztecs, the Middle Ages were more or less over.

  7. #7

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    What about the incas and mayaindians...?

    If the aztecs are in, at least the incas should be in to, dont you agree?
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  8. #8

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    And thats exactly the problem.

    You add in the Aztecs in, and suddenly you have to add in the Mayas and Incas as well - work at it long enough and eventually your game is going to have an identity crisis... is it Medieval 2: Total War or Conquest of the New World: Total War? Since the game focuses on the Middle Ages, and the wars fought in and around the general vicinity of the Mediterranean, the addition of the Aztecs seems somewhat out of place.

  9. #9

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    they said that the new world campaign would be a seperate campaign map from the main campaign in europe. I for one am eagerly anticipating fighting back the invading white man. Or maybe as the Spaniards in the new world campaign you start out with only a very small town, and only like one unit of men, facing an empire with over 1 million people, and you can send out emissaries and give them gifts(like blankets) and they'll get diseased and your 200 men will easily be able to wipe them out. Did I take that too far?

    Also I would really like to see a map further norht(although i know not really in the right timeframe as teh aztecs) and see the Iroquois Confederacy pwn all Europeans. Too far again?

  10. #10
    smoke's Avatar Positively positive
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    I really think this is a bad idea that will give CA nothing but critique. Some people will moan about them not including other tribes while others will just outright hate the whole idea. I personaly can't be buggered to undertake a gruesome travel to the other side of the map just to butcher some Indians. Best thing would be if this would be incorporated in a small mini campaign.
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  11. #11
    Zenith Darksea's Avatar Ορθοδοξία ή θάνατος!
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    This is the thing - the Central American campaign will be fantastically boring. It's just you and the Aztecs... And if they contrive to put it all on one campaign map... It's just the Aztecs. Even if you were to include the Inca, I would suggest that you look at a map. The distance between the Aztecs and the Incas is enormous, comparable to the distance between Britain and Greece. I think that it's a total waste of resources that should be spent on improving the European aspect of the game. I mean, I've nothing against a New World: Total War (actually I think that would be really quite interesting), but I can't see how it's going to improve a Medieval: Total War. It's probably one of those ideas that looks good on paper but will suck in real life (like most TV programmes on the British Channel 4). No doubt they were captivated by the possibilities opened up by this extension, but it can only detract from the European game. They would do far better to extend the map a little way into Asia and give the Eastern factions a more detailed and interesting experience.

  12. #12

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    Not to mention the differences in how warfare was conducted in the new world. Controlling an Aztec army with the RTW engine would just NOT feel right.

  13. #13

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    There are alot of presumptions flying around here about the Aztec part of the game. Why don't you just wait for more information before flying off the handle and screaming bloody murder.

  14. #14

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    If they wouldn't add something this radical, it would seem too much like the NHL games: little than graphics are improved in a sequel.

  15. #15

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    Rather than put in another catholic, orthodox, Muslim or Pagan culture (And yes, I'd not have minded another viking group, or a division of the Russian factions, or Aragorne and Castille), they opted to put in a faction they felt could take advantage of the late game materials, and introduce a potentially new experience for the player, rather than just be fighting equal-footed kingdoms.

    Wouldn't the potential for an experience of having a limited European force against a massive empire, and having to utilize all manner of skills, seem interesting?


    Oh, and the Mayan's had ceased to be a cohesive empire by this time.

  16. #16
    Zenith Darksea's Avatar Ορθοδοξία ή θάνατος!
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    I think that they would really do far better to enrich the Orthodox and Muslim factions, adding say Serbia or Kiev (perhaps Cilician Armenia?) for the Orthodox and maybe splitting the Turks into Seljuks and Danishmends and adding in a Persian faction further East. As it is, I count 2 Orthodox factions (at least one of which is grossly misrepresented), 3 Muslim factions (ditto), and a whopping 13 Catholic factions. When the game is that imbalanced, I would much rather they concentrated on getting what they already have just right, rather than adding in new potential problems with the Aztecs and leaving Eastern Europe feeling incomplete and tacked-on.

  17. #17

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    I think the idea about the Aztec has potential, if it is carried out rigth it can be both fun and an interesting gameplay feature, but they can also blow it and it becomes a faliure and boring. Also the can inclued other tribes as mecenaries.

    I hope that it is going to be a succes and make gameplay interesting, but I am worried that the Aztecs are going to be full of fantasy units with would be sad....

    BTW do any1 have a clue about what sort of units the aztecs are going to have? Or know a site where you can read about the weapons they used? just to get a better inside of how they are going to be in the game.

  18. #18

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    I don't like it. I bet they will give the Aztecs some fantasy units to make them more challenging. They should leave them out and split the The Russians in two factions (Novgorod and Kiev), or maybe an extra Viking faction.

  19. #19
    Atterdag's Avatar Tro og Håb
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    Yes ofcourse I'll by it! Rome was a great game and this one seems to have lot of potential.

    My guess is that they make some sort minor campaign.
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  20. #20

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    We should remember that the Spanish were very, very lucky to conquer the Aztecs when they did (Cortez went rogue when he went to Mexico, against the direct orders of his governor). The 200 Spanish themselves would never have had a hope of defeating the Aztecs, but they allied themselves with their enemies (who had got tired of the Aztec habit of sacrificing their people). Any army brought all the way from Europe could not be a large one for reasons of logistics, so while the Aztec troops would be primitive they would easily outnumber any Europeans. The idea is an interesting one and could be done without too much inaccuracy. Sending armies over to the New World could be financially costly and highly risky, but with great rewards if it works out. Saying that they should add another faction in europe may make sense but it isn't very ambitious. They obviously aren't interested in a simple remake of mtw, they want to make a new game with clearly new features (although I'd rather they had expanded the map eastwards some more. I'd also have liked there to have been a Genoese faction, but that might leave Italy rather crowded for the purposes of the game!
    Last edited by DasBoot; January 23, 2006 at 10:27 AM.

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