[EB AAR] Koinon Hellenon: Athens X Sparta (.org X TWCenter), a participative AAR - Sparte

[Molina]

It seems the Alliance Army is more likely to attack Thermon rather than Pella. They would like the Spartan Army to assist in such a task.

Edit: Or not. I'd suggest the Spartan Council to send the Spartan Army to wherever the Alliance Army goes, since it can do nothing by itself.

[MIDN Mainolfi]

Okay! All updated! As always, give a quick once-over to make sure I didn't screw anything up too badly!

[Sekiryutei]

I believe we (Sparte) should focus on Thermon over Pella. Thermon is much more secure that Pella, in that it is only open to attack from one direction, and we are currently not hostile with the Epirots (I believe). It is also close to our existing holdings and thus easily reinforced.
Also, as the plan seems to attack Epirus after Makedon, Thermon would offer a secondary direction to attack from.
In addition to this, bringing Thermon into the Koinon relatively peacefully may well grant us their support, gaining us more power, while assisting in the take over of Pella will gain us no allies whatsoever.

I Propose the Spartan army focus on taking Thermon.
I Propose depleted units are retrained (in Korinthos where possible).
I Propose new levies for the Spartan army come from Korinthos, if they are needed.

I would also like to accept Populous' invitation to join the SNP. We may disagree on many points, but we both work for the good of the Koinon and for Sparte!

I AGREE to these three proposals. And Welcome to the Party =)

[Populus Romanus]

Thank you, Councilor Ranger in the Blue! It is an honor and a pleasure to have you join the party!
Now, down to buisiness. If we are to assault Thermon, we may have to train many new units, because the garrison of Thermon is huge and highly trained, they form 3/4 of a full army. As one can see, the Army of Sparte only is 2/5 of a full army. We have lost battles and nearly been annihlated with better odds. Now, this is not say I reject your proposition completely. However, if we are to follow through with this, Councilor Ranger in the Blue, we must add a provision to have the number of units in the Army of Sparte and Korinthos raised to at least 3/5 of a whole army, especially in Hoplitai.
I PROPOSE that we raise the strength of the Army of Sparte to 3/5 of a full stack by training Hoplitai. If this is accepted, then
I AGREE with Ranger Blue's proposals.

[Ranger Blue]

Populous, Molina has said that the Alliance army may attack Thermon. If this is the case, the added support from the Alliance army should mean that the Spartan army will be fine as it is.

And I would ask Molina to clarify whether this is the Alliance army requesting help, or suggesting that the Spartan army is too small?

-A quick question on proposals also. Should the proposal being made count as one vote in favour or not? The person who proposed it is clearly in favour, so if the other votes are even, there will be more for than against.

[Populus Romanus]

This is good news to hear, Ranger. However, I do hope that Athenai does not attempt to claim Thermon as their own. Thermon must be ours! Also, even though the new strength of the Army of Sparte may not be needed immediately, it will be sooner or later, especially after Hellas has been united under the Koinoin Hellenon and we have to look to where our armies should be turned next.

[Molina]

I do hope that Athenai does not attempt to claim Thermon as their own. Thermon must be ours!

The Alliance Army, not the Athenian Army. This would make Thermon neutral if captured. And it's been voted against in Athens and will possibly not happen.

I'd also like to remind you that the current limit of the Spartan Army is 8 units, unless Polemarchos Eudamidas comes back from the Alliance Army (which he can be ordered to do), in which case the limit increases to 12 units.

Still, his position of Polemarchos will only last 1 year, and by then Sparta might either hold the office of Strategos instead or have a different Polemarchos (or even the same one). It's hard to make long-term plans with the elections coming up next year.

And I would ask Molina to clarify whether this is the Alliance army requesting help, or suggesting that the Spartan army is too small?

One Athenian proposal requested the help, but it's still being voted. At this point it looks like it will fail. The Spartan army is indeed too small, especially to attempt the conquest of Thermon by itself at this point, although it may be attempted if Eudamidas is sent to command the Spartan Army and the Spartan Army is filled with its full potential of 12 units.

-A quick question on proposals also. Should the proposal being made count as one vote in favour or not? The person who proposed it is clearly in favour, so if the other votes are even, there will be more for than against.

No. The law is clear:

You may not accept your own motion.

[Populus Romanus]

Men of Sparte, as wise King Molina has stated, elections are coming up next year. Without any knowledge of what may be the situation then, we probably should not plan any military ventures. Instead, maybe we should spend the next year building up our forces. Unfortunately, in order to do so we must bring the Polemarchos to Sparte. This we should do. Men of Sparte: TO VICTORY!

[MIDN Mainolfi]

Okay, new year, new updates!

Populus Romanus SNP Announcements:
I NOMINATE savage feat for Ephor in advance of the Koinoin Hellenon Session.
I INVITE Ranger Blue to join the SNP : Invatation accepted!

Diomede's Anatolian Proposal:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I DISAGREE with a blanket ban on Anatolian expansion, specifically in the case of Athenian desires to take Lesbos from the Makedonians and potential liberation of the Pergamese. I wish to PROPOSE that we encourage the Athenians to hold off on such a mission until they conquer Pergamum, so that we may use it as a pretence to control both town and city via local tyrants (type 3 govs). I would also like to propose that such a conquest be done with the alliance army.

Status: 2 Agree (RangerBlue, |Sith|2|Lazyo)

Populus Romanus's Northern Proposals:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(1)I PROPOSED that the Army of Sparte assault Pella with the help of the Army of the Koinoin

(2)I PROPOSED that we expel Pella

(3)I PROPOSED that we sign an alliance with the Getai and trade rights

Status:
(1): 1 Agree (Scutarilegion)
(2): 3 Agree (RangerBlue,|Sith|2|Lazyo,Scutarilegion)
(3): 3 Agree (RangerBlue,|Sith|2|Lazyo,Scutarilegion)

Ranger Blue's Proposals:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(1)Also, if the public order/income of Sparte is not harmed by his removal, I Propose that Akrotatos Agiados Lakedaimonios be moved out of Sparte. If the Athenians allow, he should be moved into Athens to benefit from their wonderful academy. If not, he should join either the alliance or Spartan army to gain some military experience.

(2)I Propose the Spartan army focus on taking Thermon.

(3)I Propose depleted units are retrained (in Korinthos where possible).

(4)I Propose new levies for the Spartan army come from Korinthos, if they are needed.

Status:
(1): 3 Agree (Populus Romanus, SavageFeat,|Sith|2|Lazyo)
(2): 3 Agree (Populus Romanus, SavageFeat,Scutarilegion)
1 Disagree (|Sith|2|Lazyo)
(3): 4 Agree (Populus Romanus,
SavageFeat,|Sith|2|Lazyo,Scutarilegion)
(4): 3 Agree (Populus Romanus, SavageFeat,|Sith|2|Lazyo)

New Proposals:

Populus Romanus's Army Troop Recruitment Proposal:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I PROPOSE that we raise the strength of the Army of Sparte to 3/5 of a full stack by training Hoplitai.

Status: 1 Agree (Scutarilegion)

Populus Romanus's Eastward March Proposal:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I propose that we, once we have completely secured Hellas from all foreign powers, kill the Arche Seleukia. It is about time we start thinking about what direction we take once the Hellas War is finished, an I say then when the Hellas War is finally over, we take this one.

Status: 1 Disagree (|Sith|2|Lazyo)

|Sith|2|Lazyo's Romaoi Alliance Proposal:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I PROPOSE that the League enter into alliance with the Romaoi, this will strengthen our position and dissuade the Epeirotes into war with us.

Status: Pending

Savage"Wild"Feat's Return of the Polemarchos Proposal:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

To help us take Thermon I PROPOSE that the polemarchos( i forgot his name and am to lazy right now to search it up) Be returned to the spartan army to help us gain this city

Status: 2 Disagree (|Sith|2|Lazyo,Populus Romanus)

Scutarilegions Syrakusoi Conquest Proposal:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I propose that as soon as it's possible, we send the army of Sparte to take Syrakusoi from who is controlling it. I do hope it's still under rebel hands.

Status: 1 Disagree (|Sith|2|Lazyo)

[MIDN Mainolfi]

@Populus: According to the rules, the only way you can have 3/5 of a stack (12 units) is to have it led by the polemarchos. Since he is Spartan, and if I'm not mistaken, you can propose that he be ordered back to lead the Spartan Army, otherwise your other proposal on it's own is unusable should you wish to send the army into the field. I've added it, but I've also listed you as agreeing with Ranger Blue's proposals, and I noticed that you list a condition that your proposal must be accepted. So, make sure you let me know if it needs to be changed.

[Molina]

Men of Sparte, as wise King Molina has stated, elections are coming up next year. Without any knowledge of what may be the situation then, we probably should not plan any military ventures. Instead, maybe we should spend the next year building up our forces. Unfortunately, in order to do so we must bring the Polemarchos to Sparte. This we should do. Men of Sparte: TO VICTORY!

I'm no King.

Recruiting more troops can be done without the Polemarchos as long as the units stay inside a city. The limit of 8 units is for armies outside cities.

[Populus Romanus]

@Populus: According to the rules, the only way you can have 3/5 of a stack (12 units) is to have it led by the polemarchos. Since he is Spartan, and if I'm not mistaken, you can propose that he be ordered back to lead the Spartan Army, otherwise your other proposal on it's own is invalid. I've added it, but I've also listed you as agreeing with Ranger Blue's proposals, and I noticed that you list a condition that your proposal must be accepted. So, make sure you let me know if it needs to be changed.

I accept Ranger Blue's proposals without mine being accepted, no need to change anything.

[DarthLazy]

I AGREE With Diomede's Anatolian Proposals, but we should wait several years as our economy cannot support a war in Asia Minor.

I AGREE With Populus Romanus's Northern Proposals. We have a substantial amount of men, Pella will not take much effort.

(1)Also, if the public order/income of Sparte is not harmed by his removal, I Propose that Akrotatos Agiados Lakedaimonios be moved out of Sparte. If the Athenians allow, he should be moved into Athens to benefit from their wonderful academy. If not, he should join either the alliance or Spartan army to gain some military experience.

I AGREE with this proposal.

(2)I Propose the Spartan army focus on taking Thermon.

I DISAGREE with this proposal. Taking Thermon would bring is into direct conflict with the Epeirots. THeir army is far stronger than ours and we cannot afford a two front war.

(3)I Propose depleted units are retrained (in Korinthos where possible).

I AGREE

(4)I Propose new levies for the Spartan army come from Korinthos, if they are needed.

I AGREE

I PROPOSE that the League enter into alliance with the Romaoi, this will strengthen our position and dissuade the Epeirotes into war with us.

[Populus Romanus]

Populus strolled across the assembaly floor to greet the new Councilor. After a quick exchange of friendly greetings and a warm welcome, Populus took the floor. "Men of Sparte," he proclaimed, "Let us all give a warm welcome to Councilor Lazyos. It is good to see new our Gerousia refreshed with new faces to add new insights. Lazyos, Your words are spoken with great wisdom. I agree, Councilor Lazyos, on all counts. Hopefully you will able to stay in the Gerousia long to continue adding your own insights, and not be sent off to the front like most men have been. Men of Sparte: TO VICTORY!" he shouted out, to a response of thunderous applause from the Councilors seated all around him in the rows of benches in Gerousia hall.

[DarthLazy]

And btw guys |Sith| and 2 are my clan and rank, you dont need to say them

[jirisys]

I AGREE With Diomede's Anatolian Proposals, but we should wait several years as our economy cannot support a war in Asia Minor.

I AGREE With Populus Romanus's Northern Proposals. We have a substantial amount of men, Pella will not take much effort.

(1)Also, if the public order/income of Sparte is not harmed by his removal, I Propose that Akrotatos Agiados Lakedaimonios be moved out of Sparte. If the Athenians allow, he should be moved into Athens to benefit from their wonderful academy. If not, he should join either the alliance or Spartan army to gain some military experience.

I AGREE with this proposal.

(2)I Propose the Spartan army focus on taking Thermon.

I DISAGREE with this proposal. Taking Thermon would bring is into direct conflict with the Epeirots. THeir army is far stronger than ours and we cannot afford a two front war.

(3)I Propose depleted units are retrained (in Korinthos where possible).

I AGREE

(4)I Propose new levies for the Spartan army come from Korinthos, if they are needed.

I AGREE

I PROPOSE that the League enter into alliance with the Romaoi, this will strengthen our position and dissuade the Epeirotes into war with us.

*not roleplaying*

Agree with green and propose with blue

~Jirisys ()

[DarthLazy]

Well I try..... and post edited

[Populus Romanus]

Men of Sparte, I propose that we, once we have completely secured Hellas from all foreign powers, kill the Arche Seleukia. It is about time we start thinking about what direction we take once the Hellas War is finished, an I say then when the Hellas War is finally over, we take this one.
Fellow Councilors of the Gerousia, I must explain to you why I believe the Seleukids must die. I must begin this with a story: my story. I was living in with Romanoi – my people. I was 18 at the time, and was serving my very first year in the army. I was enrolled into Legio I in the velites. It was then that Pyrrhos of Epeiros, whom we all know so well, invaded Italia on behalf of the Tarantinoi. Fortunately, I was discharged before that horrible battle in which Pyrrhos wiped out so many of my fellow Romanoi. Several years later, I was conscripted again. I was this time sent into Legio II, and I will never forget what happened to Legio II. We were sent to Rhegium, or as we call it here in Sparte, Rhegion. Then, the garrison revolted. The rebel leaders sacked the town with their dastardly, traitorous soldiers. I refused to take part, and tried to keep out of the way. But then they went from century to century, demanding the loyalty of every man. When they came to me, I refused, saying that my loyalty lay with the “Senatvs Popvlvsqve Romanvs”. For this, they wished to have me crucified on the town citadel. But in the last minute before my execution, I escaped by hiding in the bowels of a trading ship. I had assumed that this was a trading vessel loyal to Roma, fleeing the rebels and heading to Romanoi held territory. I was wrong. This was a Hellene trading vessel, heading to Lydia, as I discovered. When the crew found me, they enslaved me and planned to sell me in Chios. Before selling me, they landed in Ephesos. I decided to take my chances and escaped. While I was fleeing the party of Seleukid soldiers whom the slavers had hired, as if they were mercenary dogs, to come after me, I was accepted by a family of native Lydioi who fed and sheltered me for the night. The next day, I fled from the Seleukid search party who nearing my hiding place. Later, I learned the fate of those kind Lydioi. A Seleukid official had seen me there and informed the soldiers, who tortured the family to death in an attempt to find the location of just one escaped slave. Those dogs, those animals would do anything, no matter how wrong, just to make a single mnai. They are pure evil. I later was picked up on the shore of Mysia, where I had fled to, by a fleet of Makedonians. They promised me freedom: they lied. They tried, like the Seleukids, to sell me as a slave. But I vowed not be a slave, so when that ship sank anchor off the coast of Chalkis, I made my move. I organized all the galley slaves in a revolt, and massacred the ditingent of Makedonians on the vessel. We sailed to Athenai, the only port that would receive us. But at Athenai, I could not stand the amount of slaves kept in destitution by their cruel masters, so I left to Sparte. From then on, you all know my story, how I rose through the ranks of society and have now reached the rank of Ephor. I have had my bloody revenge against those Makedonian Barbaroi who would make me a slave. But the Seleukids are yet to feel the heavy blows of my revenge! Those evil pigs will die – every last one of them! Maybe not today, but maybe the next day, or the next day, or the next. But I will have my revenge!
Men of Sparte: TO VICTORY!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So - thats my history. Anyone care to share theirs'

[DarthLazy]

While I commend Romanus' bravery, I believe it will be foolish to attack the Arche with only Hellas under our control. At the very least we would require 10 years of peaceful development. And lets not forget the threat of the Getai from the north, and we still do not know the true intentions of Romanus' kinsmen/

[Sekiryutei]

To help us take Thermon I PROPOSE that the polemarchos( i forgot his name and am to lazy right now to search it up) Be returned to the spartan army to help us gain this city