Hyrule: Total War - Link to Subforums in First Post

[UndyingNephalim]

As requested, I took the day to attach the meshes to joints for both Hylian and Gerudo units and took screenshots of the resulting battles:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Briarius]

Nice Job! It's great to see your units ingame. There are some bad vertex weighting though! Very noticable on the archers arm..3. picture.

Keep up the great work!

[UndyingNephalim]

Nice Job! It's great to see your units ingame. There are some bad vertex weighting though! Very noticable on the archers arm..3. picture.

Keep up the great work!

Yeah I can't seem to figure out why their arms are doing that... or how to get 'weights' to work in general. I've been surviving off of just selecting the joints and hitting assign...

EDIT: I do think I just figured out how to change the weights. However everytime I tweak them I seem to cause the warping of the arm to become even worse. All the animations look just fine when they run and fight in melee... it's only when they go to fire arrows that it seems to break...

[jrhindo]

The way they bend their arms looks very painfull!

[markhaselb]

when the meshes are not properly aligned this problem may occur. Check the box that says "show skeleton" in Milkshape and look if the arms are above or below the bone lines, and if the elbow sits at the elbow joint of the skeleton. You can also check correct assignment by hitting the animate button in the lower right corner and rotating the joints in animation mode. Usually you should see the limbs etc. rotating as well then. However I found that it causes problems with the mesh when I make an animation in MS, save the ms3d and export to mesh later, so you might want to save before you use the animation mode and then discard the changes later.

[absinthia]

assigning the vertexes around the elbow partially to elbow bone and partially to upper arm bone should ease the problem.
remember that there is now lower arm bone, so elbow bone stretches all the way down to the hand.

[PaulH]

Loving the battle scenes so far, was wondering though, will the Gerudo be getting variable hair-styles like the Kokiri girls? As I think it'll be needed for some units (perhaps not needed right now, but eventually).

Also, I read through the thread again (whilst promoting the mod abit to friends on msn), and noticed at one point you mentioned a slight possibility of a Shiekah race. I would advise that instead of making a race of Shiekah, that due to their near extinct nature and loyalty to Hyrule's Royal Family, they would be better placed as one of the strongest units (and thus, hardest to get) in the Kingdom of Hyrule's Tech Tree.

Edit: Got a question: What is the status on the Kokiri Fairies? They all seem to have them as Guardians in Ocarina of Time. Is that going to be overlooked, or are you planning to have them as well?

[UndyingNephalim]

when the meshes are not properly aligned this problem may occur. Check the box that says "show skeleton" in Milkshape and look if the arms are above or below the bone lines, and if the elbow sits at the elbow joint of the skeleton. You can also check correct assignment by hitting the animate button in the lower right corner and rotating the joints in animation mode. Usually you should see the limbs etc. rotating as well then. However I found that it causes problems with the mesh when I make an animation in MS, save the ms3d and export to mesh later, so you might want to save before you use the animation mode and then discard the changes later.

I have the arms lined up with the skeleton. When I rotate the joints to test out the arms they seem fine save for a few issues around the elbow, so I tweak the weights there until it's fine but that just makes it warp more in game. I'll attach the Gerudo Scout here if anyone wants to take a look and find out where I went wrong. I've not had this problem with any of meshes until now so I'm a bit puzzled

Loving the battle scenes so far, was wondering though, will the Gerudo be getting variable hair-styles like the Kokiri girls? As I think it'll be needed for some units (perhaps not needed right now, but eventually).
Also, I read through the thread again (whilst promoting the mod abit to friends on msn), and noticed at one point you mentioned a slight possibility of a Shiekah race. I would advise that instead of making a race of Shiekah, that due to their near extinct nature and loyalty to Hyrule's Royal Family, they would be better placed as one of the strongest units (and thus, hardest to get) in the Kingdom of Hyrule's Tech Tree.
Edit: Got a question: What is the status on the Kokiri Fairies? They all seem to have them as Guardians in Ocarina of Time. Is that going to be overlooked, or are you planning to have them as well?

I'll see if I can add variety to their hair. In OoT they seemed to keep their hair very uniform though so I'm not so sure how I'll go about that.

I figure that since this game takes place over a large span of time it probably would start in an era where the Sheikah were in large numbers. That bit from me does not hint that they'll be a faction though.

As for the Kokiri, if it's possible to attach an animated sprite to a model then I suppose I could have little glowing fairy bugs flying around them in a fight...

[PaulH]

At the stage you are at, variations aren't the most necessary thing to add, it was just a suggestion for some time in the future really. And regarding the Kokiri's fairies, I wouldn't say it was -the- most necessary addition to a unit, it was more my curiousity wondering how they would be addressed ^^.

[markhaselb]

I have the arms lined up with the skeleton.

Hmm it seems you don't. Look at the picture to see what I mean, the arms and shoulders of the model are below the skeleton bones when they should be at the same level. The animation is fine as long as you don't rotate in a certain direction (what I did in this case). The knees are off as well.

[UndyingNephalim]

Hmm it seems you don't. Look at the picture to see what I mean, the arms and shoulders of the model are below the skeleton bones when they should be at the same level. The animation is fine as long as you don't rotate in a certain direction (what I did in this case). The knees are off as well.

The problem seems to be during the conversion from MS3D to Mesh then, because the skeleton is aligned right before I do the conversion. I'll upload my MS3D file as soon as I get home... I'm not sure why the conversion would be doing this. Is it possible to move the joints around to match a mesh or does the conversion automatically snap the joints back to how they were in M2? If this is the case then many of my models won't work with the M2 skeletons since their physiology does not match up right...

[markhaselb]

Maybe the conversion tool has a standard skeleton that it writes into the file during every time you convert. More or less good news: if you scale with a factor of 1.1 in every direction the gerudo mesh is alligned good enough, only the knees are too high then (unless the boots are overknees, then it's fine )

[UndyingNephalim]

Maybe the conversion tool has a standard skeleton that it writes into the file during every time you convert. More or less good news: if you scale with a factor of 1.1 in every direction the gerudo mesh is alligned good enough, only the knees are too high then (unless the boots are overknees, then it's fine )

By scale do you mean the joints or the mesh? I can't scale the mesh any larger because then they'd be too large in game. Likewise when I get to the Gorons I can't scale their mesh's down since they are about 10 feet tall... I figure it must be possible though since in TATW I've seen large Trolls that have the same animations as much smaller units (unless of course they made a completely custom skeleton)

I tried scaling the joints earlier and it seemed to have no visual effect but I guess I can try again when I get home. (and yes, the kneepads on the boots go over the knees. )

[Briarius]

Hi,

M2TW was designed for controlling human armies with units absolutely average human body structure and proportions, fantasy characters like TATW trolls, or dwarves are using custom skeletons.
If you'd like to use this custom proportions then your gonna have to make custom skeleton and a complete unique animation set with the new skeleton. Try this tool:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=1469

The best.! In the zip file you'll find a .pdf file with a tutorial ...it's about making custom skeletons or add new bones to a skeleton...making custom skeleton can be painful though! I've done it for my dwarves and my ghol unit but sometimes it was a really annoying process..(lots of error possibilites...read the tutorial carefully....) during work sometimes I really felt like this : ..and i still have some glitches with certain animations waiting for to be fixed.

Otherwise you're gonna have to live with the standard skeleton..you can still make them smaller or larger but for stuff like "longer arm", "bended spine" or "shorter legs" you'll have to make custom skeleton and an animation set for it.

[UndyingNephalim]

Hi,

M2TW was designed for controlling human armies with units absolutely average human body structure and proportions, fantasy characters like TATW trolls, or dwarves are using custom skeletons.
If you'd like to use this custom proportions then your gonna have to make custom skeleton and a complete unique animation set with the new skeleton. Try this tool:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=1469

The best.! In the zip file you'll find a .pdf file with a tutorial ...it's about making custom skeletons or add new bones to a skeleton...making custom skeleton can be painful though! I've done it for my dwarves and my ghol unit but sometimes it was a really annoying process..(lots of error possibilites...read the tutorial carefully....) during work sometimes I really felt like this : ..and i still have some glitches with certain animations waiting for to be fixed.

Otherwise you're gonna have to live with the standard skeleton..you can still make them smaller or larger but for stuff like "longer arm", "bended spine" or "shorter legs" you'll have to make custom skeleton and an animation set for it.

Awesome and thanks for the link. I'll try this out tonight and see if I can get a working skeleton in the next few days.

[markhaselb]

I scaled the mesh and they are not that much taller, maybe you'll have to scale the Hylian units as well. I really hope you can get a custom skeleton to work, the scaling can still be a last resort. Another possibility would be to ask the guys from TATW for permission to use their animations ans skeletons.

[UndyingNephalim]

I scaled the mesh and they are not that much taller, maybe you'll have to scale the Hylian units as well. I really hope you can get a custom skeleton to work, the scaling can still be a last resort. Another possibility would be to ask the guys from TATW for permission to use their animations ans skeletons.

I might be able to get away with scaling for the Gerudo since they are quite human. I will be forced to make custom skeletons sooner or later though for races with more then four legs like the Gohma so I might as well start now.

[PaulH]

You've proven yourself to be talented with modelling, but how are your animations? I've been curious about how your animations will turn out with the Gohma.

Edit: Whoops, kinda phrased that poorly. I meant to say that I wonder if you have any examples of animations you have done? As it would be interesting to see how advanced you are at it.

[UndyingNephalim]

You've proven yourself to be talented with modelling, but how are your animations? I've been curious about how your animations will turn out with the Gohma.

Edit: Whoops, kinda phrased that poorly. I meant to say that I wonder if you have any examples of animations you have done? As it would be interesting to see how advanced you are at it.

I'd not say that I'm as good with animations as I am with modeling, mainly because I've not really practiced animating. This should give me the chance to practice and get better though. I don't have any samples sadly, but as soon as I finish some I'll post them here.

[cire992]

Looking good, normally I would have scoffed at the idea of a zelda total war game, but you're doing a good job at changing my mind.

Just a couple ideas I feel like throwing out there, feel free to ignore them (they might be terrible ideas :p )

1) I like the idea of hero units, and it reminds me of Aristeia TW. I almost think that using much smaller unit sizes (50-60 for normal infantry) would be very atmospheric.
2) The Kokiri worry me a little bit. I love your designs but I almost feel like it would be hard to take a bunch of little gnomes seriously in Total War, especially fighting Gorons or something. I almost feel like they'd need their own gimmick or "superweapon" to make up for their small size. Something they can do or use that gives them an edge and makes the player actually believe they could beat another faction's army. As it is, most people just know them as peaceful little elfs from the woods.
3) Not so much a suggestion, but I like what you did with the Gerudo. If I were in your position I probably wouldn't even have considered making them, as I always thought the whole rat women thing was kind of cheesy. But your designs were great, I like how you made them look more like desert amazons.
4) Have you considered making up new stuff? Especially down the line if you commit to making a campaign. There aren't a lot of "cities", or for that matter, "empires" in the Zelda series. I almost feel like you'd have to really bend the lore, re-purpose the lore or make new things up to get a really dynamic campaign map put together. Would you be thinking about scaling things up and making new areas of the world beyond Hyrule or maybe scaling everything down and adding new depth to Hyrule itself?