Hyrule: Total War - Link to Subforums in First Post

[PaulH]

And yet they will need the triforce of wisdom to help them obtain the whole triforce. If the Moblins plunder a "dungeon" and recover a shard of the triforce of wisdom, I don't see why they shouldn't try to put the whole thing together.

Especially in this mod. If Ganon was in charge (which in this mod he is) I have no doubt he would be trying to put the triforce of wisdom together with the goal of obtaining the whole thing.

Yes, they would need the whole thing, but my suggestion was that instead a faction would attempt to obtain it's part of the Triforce, a part which best represents them as a faction. Getting the whole of the Triforce would be insanely hard, and frankly a little too grand a goal to ever bother with. It would make more sense for the mod to have a voluntary goal of finding one of the 3 parts of the Triforce. For example, the Labrynna Regime would attempt to gain the Triforce of Wisdom, wheras the Kokiri would attempt to gain the Triforce of Courage.

[Opus]

How about the three parts of the triforce are locked away in temple fortresses by the sages fearing anyone to wield them. Great secret temples to the goddesses guarded by worshipers to the respective goddesses who's piece recede there. For Din monks who train hours a day to improve their strength wielding great swords. Farore(?) monks who pratice speed and form above all else wielding staffs with blades at both ends. Naru(?) monks who see that the mind is sharper than any swords who make the best armor and crossbows.

[Ganonman]

whomever chooses to split a Triforce part is unlikely to want each faction to have a piece (unless it's the Joker and he just wants to screw everybody over).


I see. Say, this may be a demanding task but... could you guys make a list of every stat that the Triforce could conceivably boost? Without assigning them to the various parts, just a full list of all the stats.
Just so we know we're not overlooking anything.

I could just imagine some rebel breaking the triforce because he wants to save his city or group of bandit friends from everyone else, only to give everyone all the more reason to destroy them.

Let's see how many bonuses I can think of...:

Improved morale, valor, management, attack bonus.
Law bonus, happiness bonus, lower unrest, lower corruption.
Casualty recovering (wisdom=medical knowledge), trade boost, tax boost.
Hit point boost
Decreased unrest across all provinces.
Increased aptitude to learning knowledge-based traits and command-based traits.
Command star boost (Generals with high command stars induce fear to enemies as well as bravery to allies)
My brains not working. If I missed something tell me. I don't think line of sight would be improved because just being wise doesn't make you a better scout. Having the ability to learn more easily could make you EVENTUALLY become a better scout, but I digress.


I just thought of something. What if certain buildings and cities (captured temples, city-specific wonders like the temple of time, capitals) gave bonuses to public order, trade, etc. when owned. Also, what if capitals could give unrest when lost. It would be kind of like how factions would experience unrest when they get excommunicated, except it's more of people being upset that their historical seat of government has been taken away along with war weariness. This was DEFINITELY used in mods before, and there's definitely the possibility in Medieval II (I believe the Eras: Total Conquest mod had unrest penalties across the kingdom for kings who didn't have a coronation at the historical capital). It would make the experience more in-depth and interesting. For example, if Hyrule was besieged and taken over, the nation would get somewhere between 5-20% unrest in every city as the people realize just how bad the war is and how they've lost a piece of their history.

By the way, I say HISTORICAL capital because this would be a pointless thing to do if you could stop the effects of unrest by moving your capital at will. It's the history and pride that gets hurt and that's what counts.

[Eleos]

Yes, they would need the whole thing, but my suggestion was that instead a faction would attempt to obtain it's part of the Triforce, a part which best represents them as a faction. Getting the whole of the Triforce would be insanely hard, and frankly a little too grand a goal to ever bother with. It would make more sense for the mod to have a voluntary goal of finding one of the 3 parts of the Triforce. For example, the Labrynna Regime would attempt to gain the Triforce of Wisdom, wheras the Kokiri would attempt to gain the Triforce of Courage.

Would these factions be seeking these specific triforces as a victory condition? I think obtaining the whole triforce should be the grand goal of seeking the triforce. Of course it is beneficial to put just one together, but if you are going to win the campaign anyway, your empire has expanded to the furthest reaches of Hyrule and you finally lay your hands on the last shard of the triforce of power to complete the whole Triforce, that would be pretty cool.

These options are not mutually exclusive. I am proposing something that would quite literally just be an alternate avenue to victory. Of-course there should be more traditional conquest goals and no player should be expected to try to obtain the whole triforce. This is similar to collecting all the heart containers in a LoZ game. Each one makes you stronger, but you are not obligated to find them all to win. Some people like to challenge themselves though and this makes the game more involving.

[Ganonman]

Yes, they would need the whole thing, but my suggestion was that instead a faction would attempt to obtain it's part of the Triforce, a part which best represents them as a faction. Getting the whole of the Triforce would be insanely hard, and frankly a little too grand a goal to ever bother with. It would make more sense for the mod to have a voluntary goal of finding one of the 3 parts of the Triforce. For example, the Labrynna Regime would attempt to gain the Triforce of Wisdom, wheras the Kokiri would attempt to gain the Triforce of Courage.

Sorry for the double post, but I see now. That makes sense.

Maybe it would be cool to snatch up the last triforce piece and conquer most of the world as....I don't know....Majora comes or something...

[PaulH]

On an unrelated point, tomorrow I shall be posting up my suggestions for the final factions to be added to this mod alongside a very simplistic map of where each will start. I want folks to know that I have twisted the idea regarding the splintering of time and really put in some far out ideas alongside some more obvious ones, but that all my ideas were designed to be easy for UndyingNephalim to implement (I think a fair few would not require entirely new models for all units, maybe even just retextured ones, and one of the factions could make use of another's armour).

Hopefully you guys will enjoy it, and even if they aren't chosen, then they may at least give you some food for thought.

[Sandesta]

I'm just wondering why we are getting so heavily into a side-campaign that will only be even considered after the arduous process of creating a main campaign is done, which at this pace seems to be a solid half to full year down the road.

[Eleos]

I'm just wondering why we are getting so heavily into a side-campaign that will only be even considered after the arduous process of creating a main campaign is done, which at this pace seems to be a solid half to full year down the road.

I've completed my goal of bringing up an idea that will help the main campaign be a richer LoZ experience. Some people had critiques and I we discussed it.

I agree that none of this is going to be implemented immediately, but it is still worthwhile to hammer out details. (We really should start a campaign wish-list for Neph, or at least I will make one for myself.)

More than likely, our discussion has gotten like this from a lack of new content to discuss. Neph has been spoiling us with new units and reveals every couple of days and it has gotten to be a while since we had our last hit. (No pressure, Neph. Do your best work on your own time!)

Not that I am in charge or anything but if anyone else has thoughts or ideas they are more than welcome to post them. Please don't let our discussion about the triforce get in the way.

[Talking_Bidoof]

I'm just wondering why we are getting so heavily into a side-campaign that will only be even considered after the arduous process of creating a main campaign is done, which at this pace seems to be a solid half to full year down the road.

Because it's fun to talk about. It's fun to design a new aspect, and refine it into something that works. Into something that fits with the direction of the project. And as long as we're talking about it, we may as well carry it all the way. We did the same thing with the Rito discussion, and the Armos discussion, and the poe discussion. If Paul posts his map tomorrow, we'll probably talk about that until we've exhausted all the talking points.

And it's not like there's anything we should be discussing. None of us are part of the dev team, and ultimately, everything we say is just part of a giant pool for Neph to pull ideas and mechanics from if he wants. If there's an idea he likes, I'm sure he puts it away somewhere until it's time to work on it, so it's not like we're holding him up by talking about how the triforce factors into the campaign, especially since that is an important question that will need to be addressed at some point.

But if you'd like to talk about something else, that's great. Put out a suggestion. We can refine it, make it work in a gameplay and lore setting. But asking why we're talking about what we are now isn't something we can discuss.

[Colonial1.1]

This is more a background question, but shouldn't the Darknuts have an actual name for their government? Like Imperium, or Empire? I know it's "an army with a state", but even Prussia had a name for itself.

Also, when we're done discussing the Triforce implementation, may we move on to the Beast Hunts?

[Ethereal Lancer 916]

This is more a background question, but shouldn't the Darknuts have an actual name for their government? Like Imperium, or Empire? I know it's "an army with a state", but even Prussia had a name for itself.

Also, when we're done discussing the Triforce implementation, may we move on to the Beast Hunts?

Well, they are the Darknut Legion... how about the General's Counsel? I figure the political leaders would also be the political leaders - after all, soldiers know what soldiers need to survive, the could refer to their economy as logistical integrity and whatnot.

Also, I know I promised Gerudo Link concept art on Friday, but the person whose scanner I use has gone home for the weekend. I'll have them ASAP!

[nintendo64isking]

what do we think are the best themes for each faction? I mean Hyrule have Hyrule castle from ALTTP, but what do you think would be good for the other factions? I would love to hear a revamped Stone Tower for Ikana even more than the Ancient castle, but either would be great!

[Colonial1.1]

Well, they are the Darknut Legion... how about the General's Counsel? I figure the political leaders would also be the political leaders - after all, soldiers know what soldiers need to survive, the could refer to their economy as logistical integrity and whatnot.

Also, I know I promised Gerudo Link concept art on Friday, but the person whose scanner I use has gone home for the weekend. I'll have them ASAP!

Well, a legion is a levy... You mean military leaders?

And thank you. That'd make for a good present.

I wonder, would each faction get their own Temple?

[PaulH]

I wonder, would each faction get their own Temple?

If you mean "Temple of Fire", etc, then I believe that very few should start with a temple of their own, but instead having to conquer a nearby territory in order to gain access to it. I do however feel that there should be multiple versions of the Temples across the lands, so that all factions have a chance to gain them.

[Duke Serkol]

Let's see how many bonuses I can think of...

Okay, going out on a limb here, let's try assigning these to the various parts, you tell me if I did a good job or not:

Courage - Improved morale, casualty recovering, command star boost.

Power- Valor, attack bonus, hit point boost, increased aptitude to learning command-based traits.

Wisdom - Management, law bonus, lower unrest, lower corruption, trade boost, tax boost, increased aptitude to learning knowledge-based traits.


How's that? Wisdom seems to have too many bonuses. We may have to cut down on some. But as far as associations go, do these work?
In case you're wondering, I gave casualty recovering to Courage because the Triforce of Courage heals Link before the final fight in OoT and Farore is the Goddess that created life.

I just thought of something. What if certain buildings and cities (captured temples, city-specific wonders like the temple of time, capitals) gave bonuses to public order, trade, etc. when owned. Also, what if capitals could give unrest when lost. It would be kind of like how factions would experience unrest when they get excommunicated, except it's more of people being upset that their historical seat of government has been taken away

Works for me!

[PaulH]

The Final Collection of Races
A Proposition by PaulH



Many in this world believe that time is liken to an ever flying arrow, with the past behind it and the future before it, with the present never deviating from its path. Yet I believe this to be false, as time is like the source of a waterway, splitting to form infinite new waterways for every possible choice or action at any given moment. If I am right, then by even contemplating changing Time, you could cause more devastation than you could ever dream of. The walls between worlds could be torn down as our Timeline spirals into others; past, present and future could co-exist as one in our world. Never do this Link, as there is nothing that is worth the risk of changing Time...


Okay, theatrics aside, I am writing this post as a means of adding my suggestions to fill the final faction slots should UndyingNephalim wish to do so. With my ideas, I have tried to embrace the idea that Link's changing of Time has caused disastrous effects to spread across the continent of Hyrule. The walls between worlds breaking down, other time-lines forcing their way into this one and generally having more havoc and mayhem from unusual factions. With some of the idea's I wanted to go “far out” and push the boundaries of possible alternate time-lines and events which may have intruded into UndyingNephalim's established time-line. I do hope you enjoy it at the very least, and at the very most I hope it is completely incorporated and I receive presents and praise and cookies and... you get the idea.

By the way I do realise that Link jumped back and forth in time using the Master Sword during the Ocarina of Time without much in the way of consequence, but meh, I'm trying to throw some wild ideas out there for people to get their heads around. If we have to, just blame Majora for causing the Time-line problems! I have included a very basic map of the new campaign map layout, each colour denotes the types of settlement that would be in a region rather than the actual area's owned by a specific faction.


Very Simplistic Map:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Without further ado, here we go:

My First Suggestion is the split the Twili into two seperate factions, a suggestion which seemingly will be implemented. My suggested details for these factions are below.

The Twilit Principality

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Strengths: Psychological impact on enemies, always fight at Night.
Weaknesses: Troops are slow, uncomfortable, and tire easily in Hyrule's alien environment
Faction Bonuses/Penalties: Penalty in deserts, Penalty in snow.
Rival Factions: Conclave of Shadows
Cordial Factions: None
Starting Position: Number 1 on the map

The Throne of Twilight was a seat that was rarely contested by the Twili, easily accepting whoever was chosen as their next leader with grace and respect. It had been this way for generations, until the day that Midna took to the Throne as the Twilight Princess, thus turning the Twilit Kingdom into a Principality. Upon her succession Zant plotted and rose up with a Conclave of Shadows to take the Throne, yet where once his plans would reach fruition, time would stand against his plots. Unknown changes to how the Fused Shadow was fractured caused his attempt to force Midna from the throne to be changed, the blast of magic instead splitting the Twili by forcing them through the two Mirror's of Twilight and shattering them both. The Twilight Realm is now empty but two factions of the Twili remain in Hyrule; a Principality under the leadership of Midna in the East, and a Conclave under the leadership of Zant in the West, with both groups racing to recover the Shards of the Mirror's in order to return home before the other can claim it for their own.

Perhaps not the great explanation as to why the Twili are split -and- on the Campaign map, but it at least highlights that minuscule changes in the way Time has run it's course can have an even greater effect than could be imagined. My belief is that the Twilit Principality would represent the finer aspects of the Twili species, more regimented units and more civilised forces would be present, but still maintaining the eerie and alien nature of their race. In my opinion, they would start out garbed only in shadows and wielding curious weapons of the Twilight, but would slowly adapt to the world of Hyrule and begin to make use of it's resources. Afterall, they would not know how to smelt metal immediately.

The Conclave of Shadows

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Strengths: Psychological impact on enemies, always fight at Night.
Weaknesses: Troops are slow, uncomfortable, and tire easily in Hyrule's alien environment
Faction Bonuses/Penalties: Penalty in deserts, Penalty in snow.
Rival Factions: Twilit Principality
Cordial Factions: None
Starting Position: Number 2 on the map.

When Time was reset by Link, a great many changes happened to the world, causing events and factions to appear where they should not be. One of these events was the introduction of a small number of the Interloper's into the Twilight Realm at a point -after- the original Interloper's evolution into the Twili. This small number hid from their numerous descendants until they came across Zant, and noticed somewhat of a kindred spirit. Befriending the strange Twili man and filling his mind with grand designs, the Interloper's have taken the role of Ganondorf in Zant's corruption. Together they formed the Conclave of Shadows, and rose up against the Twilight Princess with the Interloper's piece of the Fused Shadow. This coup failed spectacularly, as the power of the Fused Shadow forced the Twili from their homes and left them trapped in the Light World of Hyrule. Under the Interloper's guidance, Zant transformed his Twili followers into new Shadowy forms and began to corrupt the land in order to uncover the way back to the Twilight Realm.

Okay okay, again, not my best explanation but it is suitable enough to explain why Zant is where he is and to give Zant access to a few Interloper units... and lets be honest, we have all wanted some of those babies! My thoughts regarding the Conclave of Shadows is that they will be the more monstrous aspects of the Twili from the game; corrupt monsters, shadow-tainted people, and imp forms, all maintaining the unusual alien aspects of their race. I imagine their force as ferocious and savage, unequipped for Hyrule like the Twilit Principality but not to the extent of the rivals due to the influence of the Interloper's. Their position would start off stronger, but ultimately they will be somewhat eclipsed by the size of the Twilit Principality's forces.

And now onto the brand new ones.

Faction 1:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Faron Province

Strengths: Expert ambushers and archers
Weaknesses: Troops are small in number and often lightly armoured, nor are they regimented
Faction Bonuses/Penalties: Bonus in Forests, Penalty in deserts.
Rival Factions: Kingdom of Hyrule, Lizalfos
Cordial Factions: Ordona Province, Kokiri
Starting Position: Number 3 on the map, Lizalfos' new starting place is Number 4

The Province of Faron has long been a client realm of the Kingdom of Hyrule, owing the King loyalty and trade in return for protection from their vast military, it is a deal that has lasted a great number of decades but has begun to fail. Feeling safe and secure in their rule over Faron, the Kingdom of Hyrule has pulled many of its armies from the woods to fight against the rising threats of the Gerudo, Conclave of Shadows and the Sheikah; thus causing the Province of Faron to be threatened by the Lizalfos, whom are more than willing to act upon the weakness of the forest realm. Pleas for aid have fallen upon deaf ears as the King's focus is on the protection of the Hylians, leaving Faron to it's own devices in the misguided belief that they will not turn on them also, but that has happened. Rebellion is on the horizon, and there are those in the Woods who are helping it happen...

I had to think long and hard about whether or not to include Faron Province due to possible similarities to other factions and the fact that most people probably want more unique and original races to get their chance for glory. I decided to go for them for a number of reason, first and foremost being that we would finally have the chance to have all Provinces which have a Light Spirit in the Campaign (Eldin was basically the Sheikah and Goron regions, and there is just not enough room for another faction to fit there. Perhaps the Gorons could be renamed as Eldin Province, I don't know). Also, another reason was the fact that this faction would be relatively easy for UndyingNephalim to produce models for, due to being able to edit Ordona Province and Kingdom of Hyrule models for this purpose.

Composition of the Faron Province forces would be that of both Human -and- Kokiri, this may seem unusual but, I feel that some of the Kokiri settlements further away from the Great Deku Tree may have found protection from the Deku Tribes and Lizalfos at the hands of Faronians. My belief is that the forces of Faron Province would probably be an ambushing force, similar somewhat to the Ranger's of Ithilien from the Lord of the Rings books and films, but would not have many troops in their force. Small, ranged regiments.

Concerning the Lizalfos starting location change I did that to not only fit in the Faron Province, but also to place a more interesting faction down into the Southern Theatre of War, hopefully livening things up somewhat there.

Faction 2:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Ikanan Monarchy

Strengths: Superior soldiers in most regards, can quickly establish a decent trade network
Weaknesses: Slow growing population due to barren homelands, expensive units
Faction Bonuses/Penalties: Bonus in deserts.
Rival Factions: Kingdom of Ikana, Zolan Union
Cordial Factions: None
Starting Position: Number 5

Whether by accident, fate or some nefarious plot, the returning of the Master Sword into the Pedastal of Time caused an event of a magnitude rarely felt on any world in any timeline. As the Timeline span out of control, propelling the world into the past it collided with others, breaking down the barriers between worlds, and merging places and timelines into one. As the devastating events settled down, it became clear that a force that had not been seen for centuries had returned.. the Ikana. Yet unlike those who were from this timeline, that had become cursed and skeletal, these Ikanan's were still very much alive. Unknowing of the changes that brought them to this world, the Ikanan Monarchy attempted to travel to their western palaces only to discover the Unliving Ikanan's were occupying those lands. Though few words have come from the region since, it is believed that the two great nations of Ikana are fighting a Great War, possibly even the fabled Great War of Ikana.

The Ikanan Monarchy are the first of my factions added that are the result of the colliding of timelines into one another because of Link's return to the past. I'm quite fond of the idea of two versions of the same empire fighting for dominance, and the fight between Life and Death of a single nation. Also in a weird way it would lead to a sort of “re-enactment” of the Great War of Ikana, due to the fact that the Garo were supposedly spies for a foreign power that wanted to conquer the Kingdom of Ikana, and the undead version of Ikana has Garo in it's forces... so you can see how the war could be started once more by the undead Ikana sending Garo to spy upon their living selves. It's almost like a cyclical event, and I'm quite fond of the idea.

Anyway, enough babble, part of the reasons behind this choice was that UndyingNephalim would not have to make the models for the Ikanan Monarchy entirely from scratch, due to having parts of the Kingdom of Ikana units he can rip and place onto living versions. Also, many people have posted before about the desire to see a chance of the Ikanans returning to the land of the Living under certain conditions... although this is not quite what they wanted, it would still enable them to play as a living version of Ikana.

Faction 3:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Chilfos

Strengths: Gigantic forces that are cheap to purchase, swift growing population and upkeep
Weaknesses: Highly susceptible to fire, not at all durable.
Faction Bonuses/Penalties: Bonus in snow, penalty in all other terrain types.
Rival Factions: Order of the Wizzrobe
Cordial Factions: None
Starting Position: Number 6

Time has forgotten that long ago, the Order of the Wizzrobe was no secret society of magicians but a small society of scholar's open to all, that would travel the length and breadth of Hyrule in order to uncover the mysteries of the world and especially of magic. As the group travelled across the mountains of Peak Province in search of the mysteries of the north, they came across an abandoned Yeti child toying with glaciomancy, the Magic of Ice, creating animated friends to sit at his side. The curious Wizzrobe took the child in to study his new form of magic and to understand the perplexing nature of the Yeti, but something dark festered in the heart of the child. As he grew, the Wizzrobe slowly looked past the innocent exterior and noticed the evil that grew within his heart, with deep mistrust beginning to form in their own hearts. The mistrust was not easily held back, causing the Yeti to feel betrayed and turn on his adoptive family, killing a number of them before fleeing into the Peak Province. The Wizzrobes hunted him down, locking him away within the heart of the mountain range, and forever changing their attitude to the teaching of non-Wizzrobes; No more of their deep secrets would pass to those not of their species, and nor would any discover what danger lies at the heart of Peak Province.

Sorry, wrote this when tired so not the greatest of tales.. but anyway! The Chilfos are the only faction from the icy north which can ever work, due to the fact that they could take a whole number of shapes and sizes, and also that they are far creepier a foe than any other. My thoughts regarding the Chilfos is that their forces would be huge, but also that as they conquer lands of their foes their forces will adapt. For example, if a force of the standard Chilfos conquered a Goron territory, then a Goron-esque Chilfos shape would become available to make use of, showing their adaptations to whatever foe they have to conquer.

Also, many have complained that it would not make sense for the Chilfos to fight across deserts etc, which is why I gave them a penalty in all terrain types bar snowy areas. Not only that, but I have come up with an idea which should hopefully provide a decent explanation for how they can cope.. When Chilfos are in territories which they do not own, they experience a large rate of attrition for their forces in the form of people beginning to disband from the army (like how it happens in the Crusades in standard Medieval 2 Total War). However the player is capable of purchasing Chilfos units through the Mercenary tab, this would essentially represent the artificial ice-fall caused by the controller of the Chilfos to replenish their forces. This would make invasion a risky and expensive venture if you are not careful, adding another dimension to playing as them.

I expect Freezards and those White Wolfos from Twilight Princess would be part of their forces.

Faction 4:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Holodrian Federation

Strengths: Diverse foot troops, cheaply trained forces, bountiful crops due to Din's influence
Weaknesses: Complete lack of cavalry
Faction Bonuses/Penalties: Goron Units have Penalties in Snow
Rival Factions: The Stalfos, Kingdom of Ikana
Cordial Factions: Confederacy of the Ocean King
Starting Position: Number 7

Holodrum was known as a somewhat mythical realm hidden on the oceans to the far south; home to Humanity, and underground Subrosian realm and an ethnicity of Gorons. It was said that the seasons were unique and bountiful there, being wholly unusual compared to those of Hyrule to the north. As the Master Sword plunged into the Pedastal of Time, Holodrum experienced a horrendous chain of events that left that realm sunken beneath the waves of the great southern ocean. The twin strikes of the General Onox's capture of Din and the destruction of the Rod of Seasons in the middle of an Earthquake caused by the shaking of time, left the seasons of Holodrum corrupt and wrong, and by the time of Din's escape it was too late. The sun caused droughts at the same time as blizzards of a magnitude rarely seen in arctic regions combined with hurricanes and other deadly weather phenomenon. Holodrum became a wasteland and the seasons lashed at the land until it began to sink beneath the waves, water seeped into Subrosia, forcing the Subrosians to flee to the surface. With the lands utterly ruined, and sinking beneath the waves, the inhabitants of the realms of Holodrum took sail and headed north, settling upon the southern shores of the continent of Hyrule. Here they try to rebuilt a new Holodrum under the guidance of the Oracle of Seasons, but there are too many survivors for their small shard of land, leading many to believe that either war or famine are to come.

I was not sure where UndyingNephalim had decided to put Holodrum on his map, but for me personally it was sat to the south of Hyrule and Labrynna. My belief was that we needed the changing of time to have true hazards across the world, causing catastrophic events in places few in Hyrule had heard of. My belief is that Holodrum would consist of Humans, Subrosians and Gorons that survived the destruction of their homelands, but they would be in a state of panic at the beginning of the game. Too many refugees, with too little space and food providing the excuses for Holodrum to march forth to conquer new lands to settle and save themselves from suffering a famine of gigantic proportions.

Due to them sailing to Hyrule, I expect they would have a sizeable navy at the beginning of the game. Also, I expect the inhabitants of Holodrum would have bones to pick with the Stalfos and General Onox due to his part in the destruction of their home, but also with the Undead Ikana due to their similar physical appearance to the Stalfos. This provides enough reasons for their inclusion in the mod, as they would be a complex and desperate faction, and should be quite interesting to play as. That, and UndyingNephalim can recycle Subrosian and Goron models if necessary, although I believe the Goron's of Holodrum should look somewhat different to the ones from Hyrule in order to establish that they come from another continent.

Faction 5:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Zolan Union

Strengths: Highly durable and powerful units
Weaknesses: Units are expensive, and have few troops in each
Faction Bonuses/Penalties: Aquatic, Penalty in Snow
Rival Factions: Zora Dominion, Labrynna Regime
Cordial Factions: None
Starting Position: Number 8

The feral River Zora's are not exactly the most intelligent nor cunning of foes, but they make up for this with their pure violent strength and stubborn natures. It has been feared for centuries that the River Zora would band together under a single banner, but the few times this has nearly come to pass have failed through natural animosity with one another. But time has changed, and so are the feral natures of this vicious species. Seemingly out of nowhere, a being going only by the name of “Zola” has begun to pull the scattered bands and tribes of River Zora's together; unifying them under a single banner and beginning to arm and educate them, bringing civilisation to a barbaric people. This enigmatic figure has many theories behind what exactly it is, but with the way that time has shifted and morphed, it could be anyone.. or anything.

River Zora's... one of the single most requested races to be added, and mostly due to a single individual out there on the forum who seems to have a River Zora fetish :p. I did not agree with those calls for them originally, but the idea has grown on me and I feel they would provide a very interesting foe for the southern and eastern theatres of war. We have no truly feral race in the mod, and none that are just learning what it is to be a civilised nation.. I think they have potential, but would be one of the few suggestions here that would require entirely brand new models. This might work against them being added, but hopefully not.

...And yes, the name is a ploy on the whole misnaming thing that was done to the River Zora's originally.

Faction 6:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Lynnian Democracy

Strengths: Some access to advanced weaponry, Goron allies provide strong infantry
Weaknesses: Advanced weaponry is expensive, as are cavalry
Faction Bonuses/Penalties: Bonus on plains
Rival Factions: Labrynna Regime, Twilit Principality
Cordial Factions: None
Starting Position: Number 9

Despite the originally romantic nature behind the Black Tower, the construction of it had a terrible impact upon the northern regions of Labrynna. Whilst the rich south would happily watch the construction, the poor north were those building it throughout the Endless Day, without rest and with little pay to show for it. Upon it's completion, a bitter taste was left in the mouths of the north, even moreso when the Mirror of Twilight held within it activated and spewed out the Twilit Principality. As the Twili conquered the surrounding lands in search of shards of the Mirror, the north was cut off from the influence of the south. Realising their chance, the people there rose up against Queen Ambi and established a democracy opposed to her will, even forging an alliance with the Gorons of the Rolling Ridge in the process. Though they are a rebellious force, lacking training and having few of the advanced weapons Labrynna makes use of, these downtrodden people are beginning to find their legs and establish a cultural legacy to rival their southern cousins.

Let us be honest, Total War games cannot get enough civil wars in them, and for me this could be a very interesting one. My belief is that they would have a force similar to Labrynna but with less access to gunpowder and no access to the so-called Mechs. Instead they would use the allied Gorons as their shock troops, as well as limited uses of Cavalry. I do think they would have a strong mining basis, which is something the south would lack. Not sure what else to say really, other than it'd be very cool -and- easy for UndyingNephalim to introduce.

Faction 7:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Confederacy of the Ocean King

Strengths: Cheap and effective naval forces, very diverse units to choose from
Weaknesses: Small island populations cause units to take time to produce, early game has high risk of invasion
Faction Bonuses/Penalties: None
Rival Factions: Labrynna Regime, Hyrulean Kingdom
Cordial Factions: Holodrian Federation
Starting Position: Number 10

Link's shifting of time has led to countless examples of the ruination of the timeline and the establishment of a more dangerous world, but there are few examples of where the corruption of time has led to the establishment of peace. As the timeline sundered, and the barriers between worlds and timestreams broke down, terrain from the future revealed itself in the present. The southern oceans of Hyrule became home to the scattered islands of the future Great Sea and of the World of the Ocean King. Long had these various islands held peace with one another, but as they emerged into this dangerous new world it became clear that peace would just not be enough, as the Labrynna Regime conquered the eastern islands. The Ocean King called upon the numerous inhabitants of the island archipelago, and managed to forge an alliance between them to protect one another against all comers.

Many know my utter love of the Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass games, and so it should come as absolutely no surprise to anyone that one of my factions would be to do with areas associated with those games. Regardless of story or art style, the lore of the islands and races was interesting and I feel it has a true place on the Total War map. The forces of the “Confederacy of the Ocean King” would be a mishmash of different races whom have all banded together and supply a number of units for the factions unit list. The groups who would are: Hylians of Outset Isle, Humans of Windfall Isle, Rito of Dragonroost Isle, the living people of Cobble Kingdom, Pirates turned Privateers, and Koroks from the Forest Haven. The area would have a place to conquer the Yooks and Anouki that lived in those areas, as well as a few other notable islands, with the capital being on Mercay Island.

We need a faction where the navy is their greatest asset alongside trade. I feel this would provide it, and also would provide a nice bit of religion regarding the Ocean King, the Wind Gods. Who knows, even Bellum could have an impact in that region.

Faction 8:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Hyrulean Kingdom

Strengths: Balanced selection of units, access to dark magical units
Weaknesses: no true superior strengths, slow population growth
Faction Bonuses/Penalties: Bonus on plains, can night fight
Rival Factions: None
Cordial Factions: None
Starting Position: Number 11

What would have happened to the world had the Goddesses failed to prevent the Triforce being claimed by the evil and the greedy, by the power hungry and the mad? Many dare not even think of the possibility of such a failure, too frightened of the possible consequences caused by such an event. But, time flows like a waterway and breaks into infinite number of timelines where anything could have happened... When the barriers of time were broken by plunging of the Master Sword into the Pedastal of Time, one of the timelines that impacted with this one was one where the Interloper's had succeeded. To the south of Labrynna, a duplicate of the lands of Hyrule emerged in the ocean, with it's lands shrouded by dark mists and cliffs of obsidian that rose high up above the ocean surface. Those few who have explored it speak only in babbles and riddles, revealing only a scant few facts; there are now two Kingdom's of Hyrule, one of light in the north-west of Labrynna and one of darkness and ruin to the south.

What If? Scenario's are always highly entertaining, and lets be honest, those of us who have played Twilight Princess must have at least -once- wondered what would have happened if the Interloper's had won. This faction is dedicated to that idea, with a duplicate of the Kingdom of Hyrule appearing in the southern ocean due to the breaking down of the barriers between worlds and timelines. This faction is similar to the Kingdom of Hyrule faction, but a darker twist upon it. My belief is that the Hylians of that region would be mentally twisted and corrupt but biologically would look somewhat similar to Dark Link, the Interloper's of TP -or- Vaati from Minish Cap. Of all the factions, this would be the easiest to incorporate as it could be made purely by altering the textures of “Kingdom of Hyrule” units.

I hope people have enjoyed my ideas despite the fact that I have not laid them out too wonderfully. Hopefully the ideas will get your mental cogs spinning, but I will not be surprised if people are against the ideas. Thank you deeply for taking the time to read this.

[The Holy Pilgrim]

Well, I do think that these will all be really fun to play, but I really think that these races should come later on, after the map and all of the other factions are completed.

That way Neph can get the underlying map sorted out, the factions balanced, and can finally get that pesky sub-forum under his belt.

I do really like your ideas and propositions for this mod, PaulH. They really bring out how much you care for this mod and the Zelda series as a whole.

[PaulH]

Thanks alot Holy Pilgrim, and I do agree with you that these should come once a basic campaign map is done. My belief is that the regions held by the new factions would be neutral when the map is made.

The reason I wrote this list up is because of the sheer number of posts talking about more factions to add, so I wanted to create a definitive list of what the factions should be to attempt to please everybody. But also to make them an easier set of factions to produce than the ones before it.

[The Holy Pilgrim]

+rep for your dedication to this mod, PaulH.

Your research and analytical views will surely help this mod in the future.

[Ganonman]

I generally agree when people say that the map should have a bit more ocean (I really want to see how the factions with swimming units will fight, especially if they CAN fight in the water!) and factions like the Twili should emerge later in the game. Either way, you've got some good ideas. I suppose the map would need a few more rebel spaces on them (if there are a lot I didn't spot them).

You know, I hear of a very promising mod in the works in the Rome: Total War forums called Roma Vicit. The mod team there says that their next release version will have sea battles implemented, and they've released some pictures showing it was in the works and possible. As a matter of fact, you can use on board projectile attacks and ram into the other ships (boarding was impossible with the Rome engine).

I'm trying to say maybe Neph can talk to the Roma Vicit team and perhaps they'll help to put in workable sea battles into the game. It's possible, and the Rome and Medieval II engines are pretty similar, so why not give it a shot? Like I said it would be pretty cool not only to see ships fighting in-game but also aquatic soldiers duking it out.