Hyrule: Total War - Link to Subforums in First Post

[Ganonman]

I don't post for two days and 5 more pages pop up! That's really something.

To catch up with it, I'll say this. The poes should be in a rebel faction, because they're nothing but hateful spirits (except for the composer brothers) as it's said in OoT. Ice creatures I really don't know or care much for, but both of these and the poes could be used in beast hunt quests, don't you think? If Neph's willing to do the armos then I won't complain, but let's not include the Rito. Let's keep the cartoons out, because having cartoon soldiers would REALLY clash with the fact that every other faction in this game refrains from using them. Besides, it's a lot of work that Neph obviously doesn't even want to do (what with his agreement to Hitler's reaction to another cartoon game). Let's not bug him with it and do him a favor.

Like I said, poes and ice-creatures would make a good beast hunt quest.

[Talking_Bidoof]

I highly doubt the magic behind creating something like the Chilfos is anything like the magic behind creating Armos or Stalfos. Also, I do not believe all factions need to have a specific goal to their mentality. Take the Aztecs in Medieval 2, they were purely there to be an unusual foe to conquer if you reach the New World. Or the Papacy, who are there just as a center for Christianity and who rarely ever conquer.

One thing to keep in mind though is that the official Total War campaigns are much more focused on recreating history than a mod needs to be. The Papal States were there to represent the actual Papal States in history, and I suppose to give some sort of plausible reason why the things like the papacy and crusades and such weren't controlled by whichever faction happened to own Rome at any given point in the game. The Aztecs have the same history excuse, and they more or less already fulfilled the 'goal' that Nephalim was talking about. They already had their gigantic empire, and were more interested in controlling that than expanding even farther.

The yetis (Or whatever snow faction) would be able to have that 'Holding their empire' thing the Aztecs you mentioned had, except that the snow area is just so small. If there was a five region 'empire' that a group was holding on to, they might warrant a faction, even if they aren't interested in expanding like the more dynamic factions. But if they're only holding on to one or two regions, they're really not that much different than a rebel settlement, except that now you have to design, create, and play test a whole new faction. There's not necessarily anything 'wrong' with doing that, but it feels like that effort could be either spent better on something else, or by making them mercenary units that maybe occupy a rebel city or two at the start of the campaign.

[nintendo64isking]

Would it be possible at some point in the future to incorporate the ooccoo and majora factions into being playable in custom battles? If they are too powerful, you could always make the troops very expensive to balance things out

[Duke Serkol]

Though it is commonly known that I am not really in agreement of editting official lore, I do like to try to make up ideas in my head for the missing gaps in the lore. I have an idea of why the Chilfos exist, but am not sure if folk want what is essentially a completely fan made set of knowledge on them. As sadly, we know nothing of them officially in the lore.

Though I understand that for a project like this, filling the gaps may sometimes be necessary, it's a dangerous practice in that it's easy for a new game to come out and even just incidentally, provide evidence to the contrary of what we may come up with. So it is generally best to not take it too far.

let's not include the Rito. Let's keep the cartoons out, because having cartoon soldiers would REALLY clash with the fact that every other faction in this game refrains from using them.

How come people can't seem to realize that the Rito would undergo a major restyle in order to fit in this game? Much like the Koroks have.

We wouldn't have toon bird people, but something more along the lines of this:

[knorssman]

there were a couple things a noticed when replaying MM

according to the guy in the music box house, the garos ninjas were once spies against ikana, so does that technically mean that they shouldn't be in the ikana army? and after you battle them they say "to die without leaving a corpse, that is the way of the garos" (or something like that) so maybe should they "disappear" like in the zelda games?

just some information i'd like to throw out there

[Talking_Bidoof]

How come people can't seem to realize that the Rito would undergo a major restyle in order to fit in this game? Much like the Koroks have.

We wouldn't have toon bird people, but something more along the lines of this:

The problem isn't just the contrasting styles (Mostly because that's easily averted, like with what you attached earlier.).

The first problem is the timeline. I know the tagline for this mod more or less says that Link wrecked the timeline by trying to go back, but so far, everything in the mod has at least been in the same branch of the split timeline. If Link goes back and his muddling prevents the split timeline from ever occurring, then Hyrule never gets flooded, the Zora never evolve into Rito, and thus there are no Rito. If Link DOESN'T prevent the split timeline, there still aren't any Rito, because they're on the other end of the split. So okay, maybe Link brought the Rito over the split timeline chasm by messing with time, in which case, one of three things happened: A. Link brought over a few Rito, but that's it. Nothing to build a kingdom with. B. Link somehow transported an entire army of Rito over the timeline gap, who then proceeded to carve out a home for themselves for some reason in the new Hyrule. Or C. Link transported the entire Rito tribe and its lands to the new Hyrule, and they're just there now. In which case, what?

But okay, gameplay over story, right? But then you need to figure out a whole new niche that the Rito can fill. Right now, I believe flying is off the table until we can prove that's possible. And that leaves... Pretty much nothing. Aside from incredibly generic traits like 'Great Morale', (Which is taken already anyway) there's really nothing to give them that would make them something other than a second all-around army like the Kingdom of Hyrule. And as far as unit types go, it isn't as bad as some people say, but it really isn't great. You could have spearmen, since that seems to be their primary weapon anyway, and you could have cavalry-fast strike troops like the mailmen Rito. If you need to go for ranged weapons, you could just invent ranged units like the Zora did, but we're only three units in to this faction and we're already inventing unit types. It was acceptable with the Zora, since there was no way they weren't going in to the mod, but it's the same problem with the ice and armos and poe factions. There just can't be 'four units and a hero' factions all over the place when there's a bunch of other stuff that could be tweaked instead. Because that seems to be the main problem, the idea that everything from every Zelda game ever needs to be in this. I can see why it would be some peoples idea, from the "Mixing up the timelines" header, and because that really is what a lot of people want, but I don't think that's what Nephalim is making. Yes, it's not a regular Zelda game, yes, it takes a bunch of liberties. But there's still a planned structure that's being built on, and a ceertain settign and theme that's being focused on. Not some gigantic pot of "What if the Rito had to fight the Anouki in a forest made of Armos?"

I'm not trying to offend anyone who wants the Rito to be in this, and I don't have anything against the Rito or Cel-Zelda. I know why people think adding them is a good idea, and more power to them. I'm just trying to lay out why I think this and ,more or less, a bunch of the other 'Ooooh, Gohma has a faction. This enemy should have its own too" ideas don't really come together into a cohesive whole with what's already planned.

[rik209]

but there are koroks, kokiri (and arguably monkeys),
Twili in the light world without the TP events happening, etc. so the timeline arguments are pretty much negated.

about the gameplay n'stuff: they could fly, but not over walls (or at least not yet). I would like to see the rito, but ONLY if they got well fleshed out units. since now there are rito spearman bodyguards as the only canon possible units, while medli, komali, the chieftain, valoo and quill could all be heroes, so I guess, that if neph can't think of something original, they could just be mercs

[Talking_Bidoof]

but there are koroks, kokiri (and arguably monkeys),
Twili in the light world without the TP events happening, etc. so the timeline arguments are pretty much negated.

about the gameplay n'stuff: they could fly, but not over walls (or at least not yet). I would like to see the rito, but ONLY if they got well fleshed out units. since now there are rito spearman bodyguards as the only canon possible units, while medli, komali, the chieftain, valoo and quill could all be heroes, so I guess, that if neph can't think of something original, they could just be mercs

Huh. I'll admit I didn't see the Koroks in the Kokiri faction list. No idea why they're there, but whatever. And unless I'm mistaken, this more or less seems to be happening around the time of Nephalim's story on deviantArt, which if I've read it correctly, seems to take place after Twilight Princess. I could be wrong on that though, so I won't fight this point that hard. Although I'm still unclear as to what people mean by "They could fly". If it doesn't mean they 'skip' walls, which is probably impossible, then what? It can't mean they can only be attacked by ranged units, since that's a severe balance issue, especially with the Darknuts. And if it means they move really fast, then they're just a second Lizalfos faction. I'm not as against the idea of them being individual mercs, if the koroks are already in anyway, but it still feels a little shoe-horned in to me.

But whatever. It's up to Nephalim, and if he says they're in, they're in.

[Sandesta]

If people really wanted the armos in the game, a plausible explanation could be a society of tinkerers has re-emerged. This would give the faction a reason to make and develop towns, as the guys making the armos need to have places to sleep and to make the actual units, and then in battle, you could have the armos charge out like any other unit, and just follow the orders of the tinkerer general. Don't know if this is too far off cannon though.

[Ethereal Lancer 916]

If people really wanted the armos in the game, a plausible explanation could be a society of tinkerers has re-emerged. This would give the faction a reason to make and develop towns, as the guys making the armos need to have places to sleep and to make the actual units, and then in battle, you could have the armos charge out like any other unit, and just follow the orders of the tinkerer general. Don't know if this is too far off cannon though.

You mean, like a proper technologically advanced nation competing with Labrynna for the title of "most advanced"? That actually sounds like and interesting idea, except there remains the fact that every place you find Armos they have the markings of whichever tribe/race whose dungeon Link is looting.
The way I understand it, Armos are little more than golem sentries, left by their builders to deter looters and thieves, confident that any hero worthy of whatever treasure they left there will be of sufficient ability to overcome those obstacles.

[Duke Serkol]

according to the guy in the music box house, the garos ninjas were once spies against ikana, so does that technically mean that they shouldn't be in the ikana army?

Yes, the Garo were the enemies of Ikana.
It's been brought up many times, but Neph is dismissive of it.

The first problem is the timeline. I know the tagline for this mod more or less says that Link wrecked the timeline by trying to go back, but so far, everything in the mod has at least been in the same branch of the split timeline.

Eh, like we have such a thing as an unquestionable timeline... we don't really know for sure what branch of it the 2D games take place in.

At any rate, Neph's the storyteller here, so if he wants to figure out how the Rito may show up it's up to him... and I'm sure he'd be able to come up with something no problem

I would like to see the rito, but ONLY if they got well fleshed out units. since now there are rito spearman bodyguards as the only canon possible units, while medli, komali, the chieftain, valoo and quill could all be heroes, so I guess, that if neph can't think of something original, they could just be mercs

Again, give Neph credit where credit's due. Look what he could make with Darknuts and Lizalfos.

there remains the fact that every place you find Armos they have the markings of whichever tribe/race whose dungeon Link is looting.
The way I understand it, Armos are little more than golem sentries, left by their builders to deter looters and thieves

Exactly, yes.

[rik209]

the funny thing is he left some canon lizalfos and darknut's I had liked to see out.
the rito have only one canon unit, while the lizalfos have a different look and style in every game, plus there are dinolfos/dinofols/dynalfos, aeralfos and darkhammers,
and the darknuts had enough variation too for me.

[nintendo64isking]

Maybe the Rito and poes would be best as mercs

Would it be possible at some point in the future to incorporate the ooccoo and majora factions into being playable in custom battles? If they are too powerful, you could always make the troops very expensive to balance things out

anyone for this idea perhaps?

[gaiachild]

Yes, the Garo were the enemies of Ikana.
It's been brought up many times, but Neph is dismissive of it.

He is not dismissive of it. Admidetly I have forgotten how he explained it, but when he presented the garo units they were given a little story about them first being cause internal trouble in the Ikana faction later on. So I wouldn't say that neph is dismissive about it. He acknowledged it and found an explanation to make it plausible.

As for my take on the Rito faction, I got nothing against bird people in particualr, but the (imo) idiocy of fish people becoming bird people because there is MORE water than bevore doesn't let me appreaciate them in any way.

The debate about the ice faction having frost follow them around got me thinking. Will all battles against Twili be night battles? Due to them darkening the sun where they go or something? I don't think that would be so hard to do. This also bugged me a bit in TATW, when the orcs, who after Tolkin lore can't stand the sun, had no problems fighting during broad daylight.

[Ganonman]

This might just be me, but am I the only one who can imagine a unit attacking like this? It's some pictures from the Mongolphobia mod. That's one attack, by the way, and anyone caught in the fire dies instantly.

*cough, cough*Majora*cough, cough*

[Aipe]

"Evil"
1. Gohma
2. Stalfos
3. Moblins
4. Ikana
5. Twili
6. Wizzrobe

Twili evil???!!!!! i think that the twili are a missguided faction commanded by an evil zant, but if they are commanded by a good midna they are a good faction so, i say make the twili should be neutral or split up into midna/zant army.

But Twili evil. this is blasphemy, this is madness!.

Madness??

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

total war

[Ethereal Lancer 916]

Twili evil???!!!!! i think that the twili are a missguided faction commanded by an evil zant, but if they are commanded by a good midna they are a good faction so, i say make the twili should be neutral or split up into midna/zant army.

But Twili evil. this is blasphemy, this is madness!.

Madness??

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

total war

Oh God, CAN NOT UN-SEE!! WHERE IS THE DAMN BRAIN-BLEACH?! WHEREWHEREWHEREWHERE?!

[dexausmelmac]

Finally got this installed and working....


God dammit, thank you, Neph, for this MASTERPIECE! O_O
Love it all, and i havent even played half the factions yet x3

One thing i noticed, the fairies make the game run MUCH slower for me D= Just thought i'd point out basically the only downside i've noticed x3

[HaMMeRTiMe!]

Wow! two more pages since just last night?! Crazy!

Anyways, (I apologize if already suggested) I was looking through the to-do list and I noticed for mercenaries there's no pirates.

Adding pirates as mercs seems like an obvious choice to me. They're coldhearted and ruthless on top of being willing to do just about anything for a few shiny rupees. Sounds like the perfect embodiment of a mercenary if you ask me.

[PaulH]

As for my take on the Rito faction, I got nothing against bird people in particualr, but the (imo) idiocy of fish people becoming bird people because there is MORE water than bevore doesn't let me appreaciate them in any way.

Everyone seems to forget that one of the reasons for the evolution from Zora to Rito was to prevent them from reaching Hyrule-Beneath-The-Waves.