Hyrule: Total War - Link to Subforums in First Post

[LordKorloros]

And then it would not be Zelda. Warhammer is meant to be an incredibly dark and gothic fantasy, Zelda never has and never will be anywhere close to as dark as it. Which is the magic of Zelda, in a world where almost all fantasies are becoming dark and "frightening" and "real", we have a fantasy which remains fantastical, and frankly if you cannot cope with it remaining fantastical... don't claim to be a fan of the franchise. As that means you want it to be something it never was, and never will be.

The constant negativity about the franchise is frankly really winding me up, we have had people adding snide comments to their posts for 131 pages now. Can't we finally give up the damned constant negativity towards the Legend of Zelda and actually embrace the damned good points of it? Embrace the bits which made you guys supposedly love it?

And this constant Spirit Tracks whinging is irritating me too. You guys really do not grasp the fact that in Spirit Track's case, it was a children's story. When you tell a story to a 5 year old, do you make it gruesome, dark and heavy plot-wise... or do you keep the story simple and add in marvels which would entertain their young minds? You keep it simple and marvellous because they are not capable of properly understanding a proper storyline at that young age. That is not to say that it is a game without fault, it had it's problems, but the story and art style reflected the purpose.

We have to remember that we are playing through a "legend", a Legend of Zelda... what does that mean? It means we are essentially playing through a story being passed through the eons from father to son, mother to daughter, which means that instead of being the story it would have been at the time it happened (thus, dark, realistic, etc) it has become fantastical. Look at legends today, are they frightening? No, but are they gripping? Yes. This is what this is about, we are playing through a Legend being told by someone in a time where the events of the story -are- Legendary, and thus the things we bear witness to are more fantastical than it really would have been.

Try to remember, we are playing through Legends.. and legends get adapted quite often for the target audience. An older audience can handle death and blood, but a younger one does not so well. Think on that.

And stop the b-itching, enough is enough.

Oh, and there was nothing wrong with the inclusion of Steam Trains from a lore point of view, though I agree as a gameplay element it was not too inspiring.

I didn't mean it could take hints from warhammer storywise, hell no, Warhammer is NighrmareFuel, Zelda is a much different calibre.

[UndyingNephalim]

Now if they had looked like those simple firearms in that drawing I would have had no issue with them at all!
But as they are, they remind me of Protoman's arm cannon. See my attachment.
Plus, it looks pretty elaborate to go from a squared form to a round one, not something you associate with early designs (which as seen in your drawing were entirely round).

It's not exhaust vents, it's called ornamental decorations like all the markings on their armor.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

But again I ask: can we today make something like it that would work effectively on the battlefield? Could one of our medieval nations do it?

Yes it is possible to make a hydraulic suit of armor now days, but we've discovered better things like tanks. Yes it is possible for a medieval era nation to make such a thing, the problem is on earth none of them had any idea about Hydraulics. Or swords that fire pink beams of energy when they are at full health.

Oh come on, ancient lost technology doesn't count

Yes it does because any of the nations in Zelda could reverse engineer all this super high tech stuff left behind by ancient civilizations (think Aztecs taking note of Spain's superior tech). Also what's that? Veran is manipulating Labrynna through Queen Ambi? Veran also happens to be working with the Twili whom have advanced technology? Hmmmm, I wonder where Labynna got their ideas from.


@PaulH

While I'll personally apologize about some things to you PaulH, and you're argument in the defense of Spirit Tracks is actually pretty good (The legend getting warped over time after generations of retelling it is actually a really clever defense), I still just have to pull the card of "Well why can't the series turn into something more dark and more suited for people other then children?" Granted there's no law that says it can't be for those little kids, but at the same time I could say there's nothing holding back the potential for the series to go in the other direction. I stand by my defense that OoT, MM, and TP were absolutely not intended for children at all. Mass graves, death, war, hideous monsters, a giant monster collapsing into a heap of pulsating flesh before your very eyes, green blood (and a little red blood). You know, for kids! But no I get your point I'll stop bashing on about Spirit Tracks.

@PaulH
if the series were darker and grittier, it would not be legend of zelda. zelda games are children's fantasy stories, not MMORPGs.

Then why the heck are you following this mod?

[Duke Serkol]

It's not exhaust vents, it's called ornamental decorations

Oh so those were not holes? They looked like it before you posted the bigger picture. Thing is, most of the time we'll see them as in the previous pictures not all zoomed up. And bottom line, it would probably have been better for the first guns in this setting to look more primitive and less elaborate.

And... I will say no more. I don't think I can change your mind and people seem to like both units anyway. I won't stand against the will of the majority, no matter how wrong this all seems to me. Even if I could persuade you, I can't possibly expect you to let them all down in order to appease me.
If you did, that'd make you Nintendo and me Miyamoto (lol Nintendo bashing)

I stand by my defense that OoT, MM, and TP were absolutely not intended for children at all. Mass graves, death, war, hideous monsters, a giant monster collapsing into a heap of pulsating flesh before your very eyes, green blood (and a little red blood). You know, for kids! But no I get your point I'll stop bashing on about Spirit Tracks.

Personally I'm going to stand my ground. Just because other people like the game doesn't mean I also have to (besides, it's not the graphics alone nor the kid friendliness that gets to me really. I honestly think it's bad all around).
Oh and don't forget about ALttP: they had to censor the lines of dialogue that revealed how Agahnim had killed all the maidens and Zelda, leaving only their spirits trapped into the crystals (fans spent years speculating why they weren't changing into the Dark World... some theorizing they did change. Into crystals )

[UndyingNephalim]

Oh and don't forget about ALttP: they had to censor the lines of dialogue that revealed how Agahnim had killed all the maidens and Zelda, leaving only their spirits trapped into the crystals (fans spent years speculating why they weren't changing into the Dark World... some theorizing they did change. Into crystals )

And this point you make is generally where I think more fanatical Zelda fans can't seem to grasp why we dislike the more recent Zelda games.

[Ethereal Lancer 916]

And bottom line, it would probably have been better for the first guns in this setting to look more primitive and less elaborate.

Hmmm..... who said they were the first guns? Nobody is stupid enough to mass-produce the beta-version.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Besides:

[FFfanboyX]

Yes it does because any of the nations in Zelda could reverse engineer all this super high tech stuff left behind by ancient civilizations (think Aztecs taking note of Spain's superior tech). Also what's that? Veran is manipulating Labrynna through Queen Ambi? Veran also happens to be working with the Twili whom have advanced technology? Hmmmm, I wonder where Labynna got their ideas from.

Uh....That may be true for most of the technology, but I'm pretty sure they'd have trouble with the Beamos, seeing as the only ways to turn them off that have been seen are shooting them in the 'eye' with an arrow (which would take out the part with the actual laser) and explosives (which takes out the...well, basically the whole thing).

Still, maybe as, say, a Temple unit for allying with the Oocca, some or all factions could have an insanely expensive unit with reverse-engineered Beamos weaponry.

....Ye Gods, I just suggested giving medieval people, including elves, dogs, rocks, and fish, laser beams for allying with ancient, godlike chickens with stone robots.

[UndyingNephalim]

....Ye Gods, I just suggested giving medieval people, including elves, dogs, rocks, and fish, laser beams for allying with ancient, godlike chickens with stone robots.

Anyone still want to say Bronze Armor Mechs don't fit in Zelda?

[LordKorloros]

@PaulH
To explain my comment on "zelda taking hints from warhammer", I meant in areas like weaponry and equipment or possibly magical abilities. Warhammer goes out of its way to explain how things work, for instance in zelda it could say "Our hero used a large wheeled machine that spat fire!", in warhammer it would explain "...by touching off each barrel simultaneously to achieve ferocious rapid-fire. The Organ Gun is truly a fearsome machine." Honestly I'd backhand someone for assuming something without asking any questions then lecturing me, but you are an internet commentor and a person with opinions, so oh well. RANT COMPLETE.

[Opus]

I'm sorry if my questions have been asked before (132 is a lot pages and Ive just found this mod) but are the deku babas going to be immobile? because I can think of some cool units that would fit perfectly if you can make them like that and will there be special units for conquering specific towns? Bandits, Traitor Guards, corrupted Hyrule Knights for Ganondorf if he takes a Hyrule provence. tame deku shrubs for the karoki for taking the deku palace. Volunteer villagers to "good" fractions for hyrule provinces. Twili worshipers for the twili in human towns(to simple farmers who have never heard of the twilight realm they would look like a god's army). etc. etc.
for the corrupyed hyrule knights I could just edit their skins to look evil with Ganondorfs fist with the triforce symbol glowing on their shields.
now because I dont want to just be saying do this or do that here is a first attempt at redoing the deku banners
suggestions please

[Ethereal Lancer 916]

Anyone still want to say Bronze Armor Mechs don't fit in Zelda?

Nope, but I am still disappoint of apparent lack of Labrynnian Cavalry.

[UndyingNephalim]

@Opus
I actually really like what you did with the Deku Flag there and how it's basically a bunch of leaves strung together. I think when I add in all the banner carriers I'll piggyback off that idea if you'd like. As for some of the other questions I'll answer what I can.

- Deku Babas will be in the game and they will be a stationary and purely defensive unit (they can only be spawned inside Deku Cities).
- I've been thinking about units that appear when you conquer certain races, but I have nothing final yet.

@Ethereal Lancer 916
Labrynna's actually a mostly anti-cavalry geared faction at the moment, the idea inspired by the fact that horses seemed to be non existent in their homeland. With two and a half spearmen units, gunners, and mechs immune to horse charges they have more anti cavalry options then any other faction in the game. But if I can be convinced to add in a unit that would avoid in further making them a mold of other standard factions and instead differentiate their unit types I'm willing to listen.


In the meantime.... Labrynna's got some not-so-heroic heroes:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Queen Ambi:
The current leader of Labrynna's Regime, Queen Ambi inherited the Kingdom from her recently deceased husband and previous King. For a time she fell into a deep depression and Labrynna began to falter as a result. One day however her demeanor changed and soon after the Regime began to make huge strides in economics and technology. Seemingly from nowhere she helped develop Hydraulics as a new energy source for her kingdom as well as provided insight into new forms of weaponry. She now strives to expand west in Hyrule and find more resources to complete her crowning achievement: a massive tower from which she may look upon all the land.



Ralph, Knight of Ambi:
Eccentric would be a mild word to describe the oddity that is Ralph. Many would shun away from him because of his awkward mannerisms but few would deny his good sense of loyalty and duty. The grandson of Queen Ambi, Ralph was quick to join Labrynna's new found military as a recruit. He also has a keen interest in the cultures of those races native to Hyrule, in particular the religion built around the Hylian's three Goddesses and the Triforce.



Veran:
There are only a few individuals aware of Veran's existence, and even fewer that know the truth behind her. In the past a powerful Great Fairy, Veran at one time betrayed the Fairies and nearly destroyed all her people along with Onox. Death was believed to be too light of a punishment, so the Fairies instead cast her into the Mirror of Twilight believing she would suffer in a void for all eternity. Much like the Interlopers that were banished with her, Veran instead gained power on the other side of the Mirror and has now found a way to slip back into the world and poison Queen Ambi with her words.

[Deku Cru]

How about guys in suits with legs that are similar to prosthetic legs or the Portal Boots to give them a close to mounted speed?

[LordAmbler]

Dang Veran. it reminds me an ancient fiction text I wrote for a writing tournament about Zelda.
Never actually played Oracle games, but Veran seems an interesting character. Also I didn't see, did you modelize the knights yet ? Sword units I mean.

Mainwhile, I'd like to share some screens with lurkers who do not have the time or desire to download the demo yet

King Ganon gazing at it's future domain to corrupt:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Kokiris attacking a Lizalfos settlement:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And an heroic charge:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Edit: Hey, if the online is supposed to work, does anyone wanna match anytime ?

[PaulH]

Regarding Deku Baba's.. you could have Deku Serpents as a unit as well, Deku Baba's who have been cut free from their roots and bounce around gobbling up stuff. They would be faster than most Deku's, so could almost be treated like their version of a cavalry unit.

[LordKorloros]

Neph, here is my idea for a unit. Since Labrynna has gunpowder and hydraulics (not to mention the mechs remind me of Terminators ) why not make a Mech variant with an organ gun on the shoulders? A mech would be a very stable firing platform given the weight of such a wonder and hte hydraulics would balance out any recoil that might overbalance it. It would work as an anti-infantry unit to mix with the pikemen or other gunners.

[WindGuru]

I love how Ambi looks quite...old. Fits how Ralph is old enough to be her grandson.

Poor Ralph. Just look at him with his cap, sword and shield: he's walking in the umbra of a greater man. Here's hoping a Labrynnian campaign lets him kill Veran and free his land.

What happened to Nayru?

[Ethereal Lancer 916]

@Ethereal Lancer 916
Labrynna's actually a mostly anti-cavalry geared faction at the moment, the idea inspired by the fact that horses seemed to be non existent in their homeland. With two and a half spearmen units, gunners, and mechs immune to horse charges they have more anti cavalry options then any other faction in the game. But if I can be convinced to add in a unit that would avoid in further making them a mold of other standard factions and instead differentiate their unit types I'm willing to listen.

I understand your reasoning, especially about the shear number of anti-cavalry units, but let's look at history - the Macedonian army, waaay back before gunpowder, had its signature weapon in the hands of every soldier : the pike. As in, an eighteen (18) foot long pike intended to give maximum reach to the soldier in order to form a phalanx that would keep enemies occupied well away from the soldiers themselves. As we know, Alexander loved having huge armies, and fought even bigger armies with his phalanxes - and as much cavalry as he could bring. Even in real life, spearmen left unsupported in a melee - especially against sword infantry like Hyrule's and Ordona's militia, will most often come out second best. While I kind of consent to your idea that horses just do not exist in Labrynna, I also recognize that adding SOME kind of cavalry, even if it's not very strong in melee itself, will be a huge help to the spearmen.

I also recognized that you didn't seem to want to give them cavalry, probably to balance out the mechs and guns, but at the least consider a pistol-cavalry unit - think Dragoons. Firing shortened versions of the infantry culverin, with less ammo, and comparatively weak melee skills like any other missile cavalry. It fits the theme Labrynna has going, right?

Also, you have to consider what we'll do once we actually get into campaign mode. The Labrynnians would be ridiculously easy to outflank and destroy if they don't have anything to at least occupy Hylian or Gerudo cavalry - let alone the Gohma!

[UndyingNephalim]

@LordAmbler
I've tried online matches but have not been able to get them to work sadly. But I blame that on my router not the game.

@PaulH
I think it's good probability a mobile variety of Babas will show up.

@WindGuru
Yeah I definitely wanted to make her look like a grandmother and to show signs of Veran corrupting her. If by Naryu you mean the Oracles they'll show up sooner or later.

@Ethereal Lancer 916
Might their speedy mechs count as cavalry?


Aaannnnnnd new news! The Skyward Sword into has finally be released:



I have to say, it's a good sign when the opening few seconds of the game show blood, fire, lots of people being slaughtered, and the Goddesses kicking ass, even if it's all on parchment. Still am irked at the continuing trope of Zelda telling us all about these awesome huge ass bloody wars and never actually showing them unfold though.

[gaiachild]

Somehow I feel like this is just ripping off/altering the plot of the Wind waker.
Spoiler for the Windwaker: A great evil, meaning Ganon/demonic hordes destroyes the land. To stop them, some divine power floods the land/raises land above the clouds, only a few humans survive. Later, the hero of time gets reincarnated, but his sister/friend gets kidnapped by a giant bird/a black hole in the sky, the hero uses a talking boat/horse sized bird to get from iland to iland to save her and later defeat Ganon/the demonic hordes for good.
Spoiler over.

Well, I am always happy to be proven wrong in these regards, so lets just see what happens. Otherwise, I support your "no horse" agenda with Labrynna. After all, the romans got along just fine without (yes, they did have SOME cavalery, but used it very rarely, which was part of the reason why the huns totally owned them for so long. Hell, the romans rarely ever used bows and were still fine.)

Admidettely, in the middle ages pretty much every mlitary force saw the advantages of cavalry and upgraded their ranks accordingly, but seeing how Labrynn is sort of steam punk, it could easily be said that they deem riding horses in war to be babaric, since real men use mechas for that
Besides, why should the darknuts be the only one to suffer the lack of that particular unit?

[UndyingNephalim]

Somehow I feel like this is just ripping off/altering the plot of the Wind waker.
Spoiler for the Windwaker: A great evil, meaning Ganon/demonic hordes destroyes the land. To stop them, some divine power floods the land/raises land above the clouds, only a few humans survive. Later, the hero of time gets reincarnated, but his sister/friend gets kidnapped by a giant bird/a black hole in the sky, the hero uses a talking boat/horse sized bird to get from iland to iland to save her and later defeat Ganon/the demonic hordes for good.
Spoiler over.

To be fair virtually every Zelda game has just been the same thing with a new coat of paint over and over, with a few exceptions like Link's Awakening, Majora's Mask, and the two Oracle games (no surprise those are my four favorite games in the series). Aunoma has flat out said verbatim that they put little to no effort in the story at all (don't believe me read the Skyward Sword article in the most recent issue of Game Informer) and focused on gameplay so I won't be surprised if it is basically Windwaker with a new coat of paint.