Hyrule: Total War - Link to Subforums in First Post

[Shugo560]

Exactly. By the time the Renaissance rolled around the Wheel-Lock didn't have much of a lifespan left, why would a nation with greater tech use what was essentially the first European handheld firearm to be produced in any numbers?

well true, but the wheelock was actually the primary firearm of the renaissance, mostly for the rich powers, such as the papal states which used the wheelock for their guards, well the guards that did use guns, anyways to the point rich countries made the wheelock more than matchlocks an arquebuises (italian- city states) an considering Labrynnia is a rich faction should be able to make wheelocks with ease

[Ethereal Lancer 916]

well true, but the wheelock was actually the primary firearm of the renaissance, mostly for the rich powers, such as the papal states which used the wheelock for their guards, well the guards that did use guns, anyways to the point rich countries made the wheelock more than matchlocks an arquebuises (italian- city states) an considering Labrynnia is a rich faction should be able to make wheelocks with ease

Right, my mistake. I meant Match-lock, typed "Wheel" instead for some reason.

[Duke Serkol]

yes, but you forget Labrynnia is a Renaissance era faction not medieval, making the hand cannons primitive to them

Eh... this is the second time in two pages I've had to quote this:

While they do have access to gunpowder I don't really want people to mistake that as the Labrynnians being centuries ahead of all the other races. Rifles did indeed exist in the medieval era and I still want the Labrynnians to fit in that era.

So no, not a renaissance nation.

And that's why I'd prefer to see them use these weapons that preceded the smaller more practical firearms, because it'd be easier to accept for people like me (who are not accustomed to the notion of rifles in the middle ages, regardless of what their real history may be).

Which just happens to be Neph's goal here: have Labrynnians fit the medieval era and for people not to think they are too far ahead of the other races.

[LordKorloros]

Has anyone thought of Labrynna using culverins (gun version, not cannon) and/or basilisks? Primitive guns yet rediculously effective, even if the latter does suffer somewhat in mobility though it makes up for that with sheer firepower.

[Duke Serkol]

Sounds pretty good to me. Culverins and gunnes... those I can take. Rifles... not so much.

[Shugo560]

Sounds pretty good to me. Culverins and gunnes... those I can take. Rifles... not so much.

but a musket is a gun, an the renaissance is in the middle ages.... so it not going out of the middle ages and what Neph meant by centuries i think he meant 1700'-1900's rifles(when people were talking about Labrynnians having repeating rifles) not a renaissance era wheelock, matchlock, or flintlock musket, and as ethereal said earlier hand-cannon= 2 man job, and 3 barrel musket only had three shots and was then used as a club, there is a diffrence between a ineffective weapon and a practical one, hand cannon aint practical, an you are forgetting "the Labrynnians know how to use steam to make power... im pretty sure they aint stupid enough to make a practical musket"

[LordKorloros]

Pull a Leondardo DaVinci and give them a big honking steam-cannon.

[LordAmbler]

Or that primitive tank he designed.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[LordKorloros]

Lord Ambler has the right idea, I believe I will look into some weaponry the Labrynna might use.

[Ethereal Lancer 916]

The daVinci Organ Gun! Why hadn't I thought of that myself?

Three rows of small cannon barrels on a rotating rack, the top on firing, the previous one cooling, the next on reloading. Used properly, those would be some quick volleys of cannon

[UndyingNephalim]

an you are forgetting "the Labrynnians know how to use steam to make power... im pretty sure they aint stupid enough to make a practical musket"

What you say here is also my argument as to why Labrynna would have some sort of firearms. As I've mentioned a bajillion times before to the doubters, gunpowder has explicitly existed in the Zelda universe since the very first game and has been mentioned specifically by the term "gun powder" since Majora's Mask. Considering a (admittedly silly but cool) portable bazooka appeared in TP it would seem logical some power in Hyrule would get the idea to make a portable version that an army could field. I still want to emphasize the fact that Labrynna still should be considered a medieval age empire and not a renaissance age one. Once again as I've pointed out many times to doubters that Steam powered technology has existed within the actual canon Zelda games since Majora's Mask, so it would make sense a power in Hyrule would focus on that ideal and go down a different path of evolution that Earth did. I like to bold things.

but a musket is a gun, an the renaissance is in the middle ages.... so it not going out of the middle ages and what Neph meant by centuries i think he meant 1700'-1900's rifles(when people were talking about Labrynnians having repeating rifles) not a renaissance era wheelock, matchlock, or flintlock musket, and as ethereal said earlier hand-cannon= 2 man job, and 3 barrel musket only had three shots and was then used as a club, there is a diffrence between a ineffective weapon and a practical one, hand cannon aint practical,

The Middle Ages took place from approximately 900A.D. - 1400A.D. Reconnaissance was approximately 1400A.D. - 1600A.D. Labrynna's firearms will be largely based on weaponry prior to 1400A.D such as....

culverins.

Culverins

Yup that, my mind was finally read.

[WindGuru]

Yesssss, culverins!

Also, I couldn't help but post a link to this:

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/Braw...p?Number=16447

Although it is a hack of Marth from Brawl (and not mine sadly >: ) it does look pretty good, and I'm sure you could get the vertex points from it to use in HTW somehow.

[Duke Serkol]

So... out of curiosity, and so we can see how they'd play out, has anyone put gunnes into Total War as of yet?

Oh and by the way,

What you say here is also my argument as to why Labrynna would have some sort of firearms. As I've mentioned a bajillion times before to the doubters, gunpowder has explicitly existed in the Zelda universe since the very first game and has been mentioned specifically by the term "gun powder" since Majora's Mask. Considering a (admittedly silly but cool) portable bazooka appeared in TP it would seem logical some power in Hyrule would get the idea to make a portable version that an army could field. I still want to emphasize the fact that Labrynna still should be considered a medieval age empire and not a renaissance age one. Once again as I've pointed out many times to doubters that Steam powered technology has existed within the actual canon Zelda games since Majora's Mask

I'd just like to note that something existing in Termina doesn't necessarily make it available in Hyrule too (not to mention that Goth was unique and I doubt any Terminian would know how to make another).
And that the argument "It's canon, so it's all right to add it in" is only a good one if you approve of everything Nintendo's put in the games.
Because this is canon too:

so going by that reasoning, things like trains and flaying saucers can worm their way in and next thing you know Link finds a new transformation mask:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

But seriously, like I was saying in the last post, when it comes to these things historical facts don't matter nearly as much as the way people perceive a time period.
Early firearms may have existed in the middle ages, but most people associate them to later periods (and they are more likely to just dismiss them as an anachronism than go look it up). However, if the firearm in question was as rudimental as a gunne, that's something which people may more readily accept.

[UndyingNephalim]

So... out of curiosity, and so we can see how they'd play out, has anyone put gunnes into Total War as of yet?

There actually are a plethora of gunner units in the default Medieval 2 Total War game. Arquebus, Jannisaries, and even rocket launchers and Nahptha Grenadiers start to become available around the 1400's. Later on more recognizable gun units like Conquistadors become available.

EDIT:

"It's canon, so it's all right to add it in" is only a good one if you approve of everything Nintendo's put in the games.

This I know, I'm just saying no one should be shocked by what shows up and say "well guns have never been in Zelda before so they should not be." Zelda has never been an RTS, does that mean it should never be one?

The thing is I really don't mind what crazy things are put into Zelda as long as it's handled right. Trains in Zelda? Heck that could be cool... the problem is they did a completely horrible job implementing them in Spirit Tracks to the point where it's an absolute joke that was so bad that I can barely take anything Nintendo does anymore seriously.

[Duke Serkol]

There actually are a plethora of gunner units in the default Medieval 2 Total War game. Arquebus, Jannisaries, and even rocket launchers and Nahptha Grenadiers start to become available around the 1400's. Later on more recognizable gun units like Conquistadors become available.

Yeah, but is there anything like this?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Also looks like you ninjaed me while I was editing my post Neph.

Sorry, it's a bad habit of mine to edit posts after a few minutes when more to say occurs to me (I assume it's preferable to a double post).

[LordKorloros]

Has anyone thought of Labrynna artillery using recoil springs? It would increase the rate of fire and put emphasis on their gunpowder weapons.

[Ethereal Lancer 916]

Culverins, huh? So, do ya mean
This guy?

*EDIT* It seems I can't post a picture, even in the spoiler brackets. What am I doing wrong?

[UndyingNephalim]

Well, at long last the most dreaded units that people think will be out of place have shown up... enjoy:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Gunners:
Perhaps Labrynna's most infamous of icons, Gunners serve as high ranking units of terror during wartime. The first empire to create a portable weapon that could deliver the power of Hyrule's Bombs at long range, Labrynna's Gunners can mow down a charging enemy force before they knew what hit them. While the power and terror factor of their attacks can't be underestimated, clever foes will take note of the long reloading times these diabolical weapons require in between volleys.




Mechs:
Applying hydraulic principles to good use, Labrynna has been able to construct durable suits of armor with no penalty on the wearer's mobility. While still clumsy to a degree, Mechs can move with speed despite their size and are largely protected from most melee attacks by their polished Bronze armor.




Tokay Slaves:
Kidnapped in large groups from their native island homes, Tokay Slaves have been reeducated into military service. They often serve as very cheap front line troopers to hold off enemy soldiers while Gunners unleash volleys of fire on them. Despite their low rank in Labrynna society virtually every Tokay Slave is very willing and often thanks their masters for giving them free food and fancy uniforms: both items that they think make them superior to their wild brethren.

Hero time...

[Shugo560]

Well, at long last the most dreaded units that people think will be out of place have shown up... enjoy:

Gunners:
Perhaps Labrynna's most infamous of icons, Gunners serve as high ranking units of terror during wartime. The first empire to create a portable weapon that could deliver the power of Hyrule's Bombs at long range, Labrynna's Gunners can mow down a charging enemy force before they knew what hit them. While the power and terror factor of their attacks can't be underestimated, clever foes will take note of the long reloading times these diabolical weapons require in between volleys.

i love these....

[Duke Serkol]

Uh... I was kidding when I post the Mecha Link picture earlier on...