Hyrule: Total War - Link to Subforums in First Post

[WindGuru]

'Ello, 'ello, 'ello, what's all this then?

Wow, they look amazing! I can definitely see bits of Shad from TP in these guys, which makes me smile. Keep up the fantastic work! =D

[UndyingNephalim]

'Ello, 'ello, 'ello, what's all this then?

Wow, they look amazing! I can definitely see bits of Shad from TP in these guys, which makes me smile. Keep up the fantastic work! =D

Yup his outfit style definitely influenced the Labrynnian's.

[Duke Serkol]

Coincidence I just watched the 1978 Galactica a bit earlier?

Of course not, I have set spy cameras in your house.
Wait, did I just type that out loud?

Well if you'd consider Sheikah pure blooded Hylians then technically that means there are Hylian mages in the game already

Maybe so, but as you said, you're not going to make any clear statements on the subject of bloodlines, so odds are that at a glance, people will think Hylians are the pure blooded Hylians. I know that's how I will look at it since I like my Sheikah as offshots

and River Zoras have been on the unit list on the first post for months now.

I know, I'm just hoping they get more than one unit because they are awesome (remember my short unit list? With the regular Zora, the hard scaled Zora, the one eyed Zora who admittedly may not be the greatest idea but it's there, the Geozard and River King Zora hero).
By the way, I still haven't been able to play the game, Total War (I expect I will soon)... how many mercenary units can one have in their army?

Technically my Moblins are a blend of both the piggish and dog Moblins of OoT so maybe that one meets halfway?

Yeah but I'd like to see them both as distinct units (honestly don't see much of the dog ones in the Moblins currently in the game anyway) just as they both appear in the GameBoy games. I mean, the dog ones were always my favorite design and I imagine a little more variety in their faction wouldn't hurt (not that there isn't enough, but there's room for MOAR).

Ok, so there's not really much to go by for Labrynna. All we really have to go by is little sprite for a soldier from OoA: . I've done my best to take from the style of that sprite

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Homeguards:
The main police and law force of Labrynna, Homeguards are found in virtually every city of the Regime. Armed with a heavy pole-arm and shield, they are effective crowd control during both civil unrest and during war time on the battlefield.

That's spot on! Great work starting from that tiny sprite!

Only thing is... why would a properly armored soldier go to war with a pole? Couldn't afford to tie a piece of metal or jagged rock on the tip to make it a spear?
Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with this unit, just wondering what's the reasoning behind this decision.

[rik209]

ok, now you've started the labrynians, I want to give my opinion about guns, gunpowder and other explosive sources in zelda. there was a lot of discussion about guns in zelda here.
my theory was that bomb flowers could be picked up somehow, but would explode if you sliced them. because of this you can't have a smaller dosis for in guns. in OOT, MM and WW they would explode if you picked them up, or if you hit them. but gorons seemed to make bombs out of bombflowers. in SS this seems confirmed: [WARNING: gameplay spoilers inside]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In SS you can pick up bomb flowers and put them in your bomb bag

but there seems to exist gunpowder, at least in termina, wich is used for the powder keg. also tatl's dicription of a nejiron is That's a Nejiron. Don't get too close to it. Sniff...Sniff... It smells like gun powder!
of course there are also real bombchus, bomblings, bombfish, baby dodongo, bob-omb, bombite, bombarossa and other enemies that could be an explosive source

what do the labrynians use?

[PaulH]

I think people need to remember that Zelda has never ever been a realistic fantasy world, it's design has never led it to require a logical technological progression, it's design choices are there for the sake of enjoyment rather than to make sense in a technological scope of time. Let's remember that before we get too confused on why things are where they are.

=)

[UndyingNephalim]

I know, I'm just hoping they get more than one unit

Well I can safety say they'll have more then one unit.

how many mercenary units can one have in their army?

As long as you have the money you can have as many mercs as you want. An entire army could potentially be full of nothing but mercs. Generally though mercs are cheaper units and not as effective as the main units of most armies (except for hero mercs, but you can only have one of those)

Couldn't afford to tie a piece of metal or jagged rock on the tip to make it a spear?

My BS attempt at a well thought out reason: I suppose I pictured the larger end of the pole being made of some really dense metals, so in a way it's like a long ranged hammer. While you might not get the bloody stab when a horse runs into it, I'm certain running into a large clog of metal at full speed will knock a horse out just as effectively. It also makes the pole a better swinging weapon too instead of just stabbing.

I think people need to remember that Zelda has never ever been a realistic fantasy world, it's design has never led it to require a logical technological progression, it's design choices are there for the sake of enjoyment rather than to make sense in a technological scope of time. Let's remember that before we get too confused on why things are where they are.

=)

I do think that's pretty much the case with the series. I still like to try and have things make sense though, I just feel like it's a sign of real effort and thought I suppose.

[PaulH]

Due to UndyingNephalim's speed at making models and my own delayed writing, I have decided to jump ahead of the “finished” factions and focus instead upon two factions that I am deeply fond of -before- they are started. This is in the hope that my ideas will be given serious thought, and hopefully be implemented, especially at this stage where it will be easier for Neph to do so. The two factions which I am fond of, are the Fairies of Tarm (some may have seen my unit list in the past for them) and the Forces of Twilight, and people may remember that I fought quite hard to get them implemented. Due to the Fairies being next after Lizalfos and Labyrnna, I feel they would be the better of the two to start with.


Due to the fact that the Fairies of Tarm have not been included in the mod as of yet, and that we only have a list of units and a short piece of lore behind the faction's actions, we are pretty much given free reign to prod about the unit list. Which frankly, suits me just fine. Below, I shall write a list of my perceived strengths and weaknesses of the Fairy faction, before attempting to write my own list.

• Behind Wizzrobes, they are the strongest magic user in the game, giving them a strong basis in magic.
• Fast moving army
• Free Upkeep on units, and many units are very cheap to field.
• Massive forces.

They also happen to have negatives, which would be best shown laid out in a similar fashion.

• Not heavily armoured, and low health
• Low morale in small fairy units
• Lack Durability
• Rubbish at siege warfare

My vision of the Fairies of Tarm is that the greater whole of their forces are huge units of small fairies, surrounding larger creatures, fairies and monsters which are allying with the Fairies. I view their race as quick moving, powerful from afar but easily cut down in melee. Due to the fact that we do not really have much of a unit list to work from, I shall spare everyone from having to look at the EUL, and instead jump straight into showing the current units laid out by Neph's unit list so far, and after that I shall detail my own suggestions for a unit list.

• Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  Tarminian Worshippers
  - Pink Faries
  - Green Fairies
  - Violet Fairies
  - Humanoid Manifest
  - Giant Manifest
  - Great Faries
  - Phantoms of Tarm
  
  - Tarm
  - Navi
  - Dezaia

Though it is not immediately apparent what the roles these units would have are, you can get some idea of the direction that Neph is going with them. The Fairies are accompanied by worshippers from Tarm who help bolster their forces and likely are “cannon fodder”, amongst these are the normal Pink/Green/Violet fairies which are the main bulk of the army and with those are the larger units such as the Giant Manifest which I can only assume is a Giant or Gigantic Fairy. It sort of flows along with my own ideas regarding the faction, which is good as I want my force to be in line with Neph's vision but be my own as well.


Instead of fitting those listed units into categories of which I cannot be sure, I am instead going to bypass my using section titled “Current [Insert Faction] Unit List” and jump to my own.




My Fairies of Tarm Unit List:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Light Infantry

• Worshippers (Tarminian)
• Spryte Darters (Tiny Fairy)
• Will-'o'-The Wisps (Tiny Fairy)
• Cloudscrapers (Tarminian)

Heavy Infantry

• Sundancers (Tarminian)
• Nymphs (Humanoid Fairy)
• Banshees (Humanoid Fairy)
• Faeids (Half-Fairy)
• Korrigan (Humanoid Fairy)
• Glaistig (Humanoid Fairy)

Light Cavalry

• Fairies of the Gales (Hidden Fairy)
• Moonchasers (Tarminian)

Heavy Cavalry

• Veela (Large Fairy)
• Golems of Tarm (Golem)
• Eastern Jade Giants (Golem)

Missile

• Pixies (Tiny Fairy)
• Slyphs (Humanoid Fairy)
• Fairy Queens (Large Fairy)

Artillery

• Starcallers (Tarminian)

Heroes

• Queen of Fairies (Fairy)

From the list I have added 3 Light Infantry unit (and renamed 1), 5 Heavy Infantry units (and renamed 2), 1 Light Cavalry unit, 1 Heavy Cavalry unit (and renamed 1), 2 Missile units, and 1 Artillery unit. I will readily admit that this one was tough to get ideas for, that is why most of the units are merely expanding previous units to have more than one incarnation (for example, the list now has weak-average-strong monk units to pick from). I do believe I have at least added some much needed progression, but I will readily admit that there is a long way to go, and others may have more or better ideas than I.


Unit Descriptions:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Worshippers (Tarminian)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

When Tarm fell from the sky, the impact was hailed as a sign from the Goddesses by the native and somewhat primitive peoples of the north-eastern lands of Hyrule, causing many of them to travel to the impact site and bare witness to their divine message. Instead, they came across ruins of great splendour and a race of tiny beings of beauty which inhabited them, gazing upon them with wonder. The fairies on the other hand, took to moving through the congregated people, healing any ailments that they could find. Wonder soon turned to worship, and the primitives took to settling the lands around the Ruins and treating them as sacred ground. Even to this day, there are many Tarminians who worship the Fairies.

Special Abilities = None
Notes

• These are essentially primitive Humans/Hylians who are basically the Hyrule Total War equivalent of Peasants. A Throw-away unit there primarily to use to carry siege weapons or for other less than savoury jobs.

Spryte Darters (Tiny Fairy)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The majority of the Fairy population takes the form of what appears to be tiny lights with wings attached, when in truth they take the appearance of attractive but absolutely tiny woman akin to a Hylian. These tiny women happen to travel at incredible speeds, and are known for their incessant pestering in battle and as a companion. Of all the fairy subspecies treated poorly, these were the most common amongst them, often caged inside bottles for instant wound recovery by larger "friends". Since returning to Tarm, these Sprytes have rallied against their oppressors and now flutter ready to combat them at any and all chances.


Special Abilities = None
Notes

• Fast moving
• Huge unit size
• Weak Melee Attacks
• Low health but difficult to hit

Will-'o'-The-Wisps (Tiny Fairy)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In the lands surrounding Death Mountain and the other volcanic regions of Hyrule, a subspecies of Fairy settled and adapted to the heated conditions in which they had chosen as their home. The potent Fairies adapted their magic to take on the spark of fire and gleefully reigned in their secret Fountains of Power. Even these mountain homes brought misery to the lesser species of Fairy, often from the accidental bombing of their fountain homes by clumsy Goron farming techniques.


Special Abilities = None
Notes

• Capable of firing a small number of flames at the enemy over a small distance. Comparable to javelins. 4-5 launches of fire, I expect.

Cloudscrapers (Tarminian)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The people of Tarm have grown to adapt their religion to feature heavily in the Sun, Moon, Sky and anything that travels up on high. This is due to the Ruins of Tarm seemingly dropping from the sky, and the winged nature of the Fairies they worship so fiercely. When it comes to war, the Tarminian's have grown to adopt names which are reminiscent of those places they have deified, and amongst those are the Cloudscrapers. These Tarminians are equipped with huge pikes which “scrape the clouds”, and carry hide shields, although they are only lightly armoured these Cloudscrapers are regimented unlike most of the Tarminian forces; an adaptation to foreign threats.

Special Abilities = Shield Wall
Notes

• Basically a Hoplite Regiment, but not too tough. I suppose if this was Roman Total War, their equivalent would be Militia Hoplites.

Sundancers (Tarminian)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Chief of the celestial objects that are worshipped by the Tarminians is the Fiery Orb in the sky known as the Sun. Much time has been devoted to this life-giving orb, songs of worship and dances of praise, one of these being a war-dance. The Sundancers practice their dances both with and without weaponry, their motions easily translating from worship to conflict with the littlest of adaptations necessary. Often these are armed with two weapons, and are covered from head to toe in heavy tattooing.

Special Abilities = Warcry
Notes

• This is the spiritual successor unit to the Worshippers, and is another unit of Tarminians rather than Fairies.
• These are barely armoured at all
• Fight with two weapons and are pretty deadly once they actually reach combat.

Nymphs (Humanoid Fairy)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Despite their name suggesting otherwise, the Nymphs are a force of Great Fairies that have equipped themselves ready for the wars that are slaying their cousins. Unlike most, these Fairies have long since realised that they cannot hope to survive without learning how to fight against their foes in melee combat. These warrior Fairies are armoured and carry axes to battle, yet they have sacrificed much of their magical talents in order to pursue their martial skills.


Special Abilities = None
Notes

• Fast unit
• Spiritual successor to the Spryte Darters but with much smaller units
• Good morale
• Good all round unit that'll be core to Fairy forces.

Banshees (Humanoid Fairy)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Not all lands held Fairies in any sort of regard that was positive, those who settled in the south near to the lands of Moblins became known for their presence at the sites of death. This was mostly due to Fairies having a complete disdain for those who would kill and ravage a land purely for something to do. Instead of healing the sick these large Fairies would mask their ethereal beauty and stalk those who would bring suffering to others, leaving their corpses on display to attempt to teach others a lesson. Often these victims would be incapacitated by the unnatural screams which would pass their lips.

Special Abilities = Chant
Notes

• If I was to class these as any unit in any Total War game, they would be reminiscent of Hastati or Principes. My view is that these are not regimented, but scattered like the smaller fairies, but act similar to those two units I mentioned.
• Prior to combat, they use a magical scream to strike their foes before melee combat is initiated. The scream would essentially be like the javelins that Hastati use.
• Good morale, but perhaps would not be too fast moving due to their disguises.

Faeids (Half-Fairy)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There are many tales of the origins of the Faeids of Tarm; some say that they are the descendants of marriages between Great Fairies and Tarm tribal leaders, others say that they are daughters offered to the Fairies for a sacrifice who instead were granted a metamorphosis by the Fairies into something resembling them. Whatever their history, the Faeids now ready themselves for war with Pikes, armour and shields.

Special Abilities = Shield Wall
Notes

• Spiritual successor to the Cloudscrapers, acts as a Hoplite unit.
• I imagine them as very beautiful Humans, rather than Fairies. Whether or not you want half-grown wings on them is entirely up to you.

Korrigan (Humanoid Fairy)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Korrigan are Great Fairies liken to the Sylph who stand at the height of a Human, but are affected deeply by the great tragedies of the mistreatment of their kind. Mistreatment, war and worse have come to these once beautiful Fairy women, having suffered and survived some of the more horrific things that they can bring. They have witnessed the desecration of their sacred Fountains, their wings have been rendered useless or pulled off entirely, and now bay for the blood of the mortals responsible. Once helpful, these women are now temptresses of their enemies demise, masking their ruined beauty with illusions.


Special Abilities = Fear inducing
Notes

• The most powerful of the standard units of Fairy kind, though obviously weaker than the specialist units such as Fairy Queens.
• Very high morale.
• Heavily armoured, armed with 2-handed blades. Their appearance should be midway between shocking and alluring.
• Formed in ranks

Glaistig (Humanoid Fairy)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Along the great rivers of Hyrule there were Fairies known as Glaistig who ruled beneath the water or upon the banks. Often dressed in emerald and with flowing orange hair, these unusual fairies had an uncommon bond with the water, able to make it bend to their will. Like water, they could be both soothing and violent, and often did they take the more vicious approach to tainters of the water. With war brewing, many have left their watery homes and have equipped themselves for the coming war.

Special Abilities = Unknown
Notes

• I believe the Glaistig would be armoured in cast-offs of the Zora and Lanaryu factions gear.
• They would have a ranged attack which would in effect, be whipping their foe with a stream of water. 3-4 uses.
• I imagine them armed with weapons of the Zora or Lanaryu factions for melee fighting. My view is of them as a Principes equivalent.

Fairies of the Gales (Hidden Fairy)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The smaller subspecies of Fairy have ended up embedded in numerous containers over the years, yet few are as unusual as the container kept for the Faery of Gales. These Fairies have chosen to become embedded into the heart of a Boomerang, usually with the intended purpose of aiding a hero in their fight against darkness, but alas now being used in war against the mortals who threaten their kind. The metallic boomerangs become dangerous weapons in their tiny hands.


Special Abilities = None
Notes

• Despite looking like Boomerangs, these are melee units. They do not hit strongly, but are rapid attackers.
• Fastest unit of this unit list, perfect for charging into a foe and immediately leaving to cause maximum damage at least cost.
• High Armour, little health.
• Strong Morale.

Moonchasers (Tarminian)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Across the many Human and Hylian realms there seems to be a constant with them when it comes to warfare, one which repeats itself in each territory though is often used in different manners, the use of the Horse. Near to the ruins of Tarm were huge fields of grass where herds of wild Horses roam free, yet when the ruins first landed there were some Horses that were near to the crash site and were changed forever by it. As the fairies emerged into the new world their city had crashed into, Horses with a somewhat supernatural appearance appeared alongside them. These were swift on their feet, but hugely temperamental, and over the years the Tarminian's have slowly tamed them as mounts for combat.

Special Abilities = No idea
Notes

• It's a poor description, I know, but my view of the Moonchasers are of them being a javelin throwing cavalry unit.
• Fast moving
• Low armour

Veela (Large Fairy)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Veela are Great Fairies who took to the skies and travelled far and wide upon the wind currents, often setting up home within the hearts of Storm Clouds. Similar to the Will-O'-The-Wisps, these Fairies adapted to their chosen home and adjusted their magic to suit the lightning infested home. Of all the subspecies of Fairy, the Veela have been least affected by mortal hands, though they have taken considerable lengths to attempt to halt Labrynna's technology from polluting the skies.


Special Abilities = None
Notes

• Very swift unit, can move and shoot.
• Weak Melee attacks.
• Medium ranged lightning.
• Low armour.

Golems of Tarm (Golem)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The ruins of Tarm are home to many artefacts and treasures of the rare and powerful qualities, often ones which are sought after by adventurers and thieves alike. In order to protect their treasures from the outside world, the Queen of Fairies began turning the rubble of the City into Golems who would patrol the ruined streets for intruders. With war coming, these Golems now have taken to the battlefield.

Special Abilities = Unknown
Notes

• Small Unit Size
• High Health
• High Armour
• Slow attacks and movement
• A tank unit of sorts, draws in the enemy to surround them and attempt to take them down. Thus allowing the smaller, swifter units to sweep into their sides and attempt to rout the enemy.

Eastern Jade Giants (Golem)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Jade Mountains reside far to the East in the uncharted lands beyond Tarm and Labrynna, uncharted at least to the mortal races of the world. The Fairies of Tarm did not only spread to the west when they landed, but also the east, and it is there that the Fairies discovered the unusual properties of the mountains there. They hew the Jade from the mountains, carving out the faces of Giants into the mountain walls and sparking life into their stone hearts. As the Fairies have rallied to defend themselves and ready for war, these Jade Giants have been making their ponderous journey to the west to aid their creators in battle.

Special Abilities = Unknown
Notes

• 3-5 men in a unit
• Obviously very tough units, and very powerful. I am thinking they are probably the most expensive unit in the list.
• Slow moving
• My design for them would be having them being somewhat alien but with a humanoid appearance. I would see them made of jade, but with celtic symbols carved into their bodies.

Pixies (Tiny Fairy)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Fairies that remained behind in the Ruins of Tarm are amongst the more potent of this magical and strange species. Though they possess the tiny appearance shared by Spryte Darters and Will-O'-The-Wisps, their power is of a greater magnitude. However, unlike their cousins they are not accustomed to the rigours of war and evil and as such can be a liability in combat. Yet their talents lie in bolstering their allies potential, and pelting the enemy from afar with arcane spellcraft.


Special Abilities = Chant
Notes

• Massive unit size
• Fast moving
• Low morale
• Long ranged magical missiles but low accuracy
• Low health but difficult to hit

Slyphs (Humanoid Fairy)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The tiny Fairies which appear as balls of light are not the only subspecies of Fairy, there are others of a much grander height who are far less common than their smaller cousins. These tend to stand just slightly smaller than that of the typical Hylian or Human woman, and have the appearance of teenage girls wearing little clothing upon their forms. Once upon a time, they would gift their heroic visitors with a Bow imbued with their magic, but now they use those arms against those who were once considered friends.

Special Abilities = Fire/Ice/Light arrows as a special ability, whichever you prefer
Notes

• Weak Melee Attack
• Low Armour and Health
• Based upon my concept of a Fairy Warrior but without the spear and less armour. Instead I could imagine them bearing war paint upon their torso's and arms.

Fairy Queens (Large Fairy)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Rarer than the Great Fairies are the Fairy Queens, who essentially rule over their shorter and less powerful cousins. Usually only one of these Queens will reside in a Fountain, surrounded by those who serve her every need. However in these times of great uncertainty, these Queens have had to abandon their Fountains and join with their sisters in order to combat the threats that lay ahead. Their strength lays not only with their vast skills of magic, but also that of melee as well.


Special Abilities = Unsure
Notes

• Tiny units, probably 3-5 in a unit.
• Exceptionally powerful ranged attacks, probably better to class them as siege attacks.
• Capable in melee.
• High health, morale and "armour".

Starcallers (Tarminian)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Tarm was an advanced city before it crashed into the lands that make up the world of Hyrule, although its technology was based purely upon magical means. Amongst the ruins were discovered the “Starcallers”, ancient devices made of mirrors which reflected and condensed star-light into a beam of energy to sweep across enemy forces. The Fairies rarely go near them, but the Tarminians have taken to using these ancient weapons of war.

Special Abilities = None
Notes

• I suppose you could think of this like a somewhat alien Beamos on wheels.
• Would only have 2 machines in the unit.

Queen of Fairies

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Despite her diminutive size and childlike nature, the Queen of Fairies is without a shadow of a doubt the single most powerful Fairy of known existence. She holds her court within the Ruins of Tarm, and surrounds herself with what can only be described as puppet versions of the Fairy Queens she rules under. It is highly rare that she comes to the field of battle, but when she does there are few survivors.

Special Abilities = No idea
Notes

• Based upon the visual image of the Queen of Fairies from The Wind Waker, and the fact that she carries a doll of a Great Fairy. I love the thought of her child-like nature causing her to make these dolls or puppets in order to aid her. I expect the puppets would take the appearance of Wind Waker's Great Fairies.
• Powerful spells with long range, no doubt.
• Weak in melee.

Although normally at this point I would then reel off a list of Temple Specific units, I am going to leave these out and work upon ideas for them at a later date, and instead discuss quickly as to how to incorporate these units for campaign purposes. Neph has said before about how the Fairies can recuperate losses quickly due to many of their units being almost like mercenaries. So I will quickly lay out which units can be gained and how:

• Units that are free and treated like Mercenaries = Spryte Darters, Will-'o'-the-Wisps, and Pixies

• Most Tarminian Units would be able to be gained early on in the campaign, would be cheap and take probably 2 turns to build.

• The Humanoid and Half-Fairy units would be gain-able after upgrading the religious building to a certain level, thus crippling development of stronger forces for the Fairies until later in the game. This would make them rely upon the free units more.

• Huge Fairies can only be produced in lands which have a Fountain or Temple in them.

• Golem units are built near end-game.

• All units except Tarminians and the free ones, would be expensive to build and maintain.

Well, there you have it. My next faction will be the Twili.




Previous Updated Unit Lists:


Kingdom of Hyrule - http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...10#post9771010
The Gerudo - http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...7#post10189307
The Gorons - http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...9#post10267719

[LordAmbler]

Good to see you already started modeling Labrynna ! I quite forgot about that faction as I was completely focused on waiting for the lizalfos, but now that they're here, I'm really interested in seeing that faction. I generally like the few firearms units in Total War, notably in Shogun 2. I really like the "not really effective but promising" side of newly created firearm weaponry. Now that introduced in Zelda seems really good, it gives a perspective of evolution, like Hyrule is finally getting out of ten thousand years of middle-age-like era.

As for the first unit, I too was like "wtf?" when first seeing the pole, but your "BS explanation" made a point with it being more effective for swinging it around.

[WindGuru]

Good to see you already started modeling Labrynna ! I quite forgot about that faction as I was completely focused on waiting for the lizalfos, but now that they're here, I'm really interested in seeing that faction. I generally like the few firearms units in Total War, notably in Shogun 2. I really like the "not really effective but promising" side of newly created firearm weaponry. Now that introduced in Zelda seems really good, it gives a perspective of evolution, like Hyrule is finally getting out of ten thousand years of middle-age-like era.

As for the first unit, I too was like "wtf?" when first seeing the pole, but your "BS explanation" made a point with it being more effective for swinging it around.

Good points. I guess for the sake of general Labrynnian law enforcement the blunt pole might be a good idea? It'd seem weird to see a policeman smacking your head with a pike; he'd probably use a truncheon instead

[Ozzmosis]

Love the designs, though the pole is a bit silly. And the explanation with the heavy metal on the end of it just means that it would be near impossible to hold it with one arm like a spear and effectively swing it around. It would be hell to stand in formation with the weighted pole sticking out, think about it! Such a thing would only be effective wielded like a club without a shield IMO

[Duke Serkol]

I think people need to remember that Zelda has never ever been a realistic fantasy world, it's design has never led it to require a logical technological progression

Much like Nephalim feels Nintendo's refusal to address mature subjects is detrimental to the series, I feel that this lax outlook on realistic technological development is something that's been doing some major harm to the franchise's credibility ever since MM.

Well I can safety say they'll have more then one unit.

As long as you have the money you can have as many mercs as you want. An entire army could potentially be full of nothing but mercs.

Party on!

Generally though mercs are cheaper units and not as effective as the main units of most armies

How about making an exception for our favorite quasi-faction?

My BS attempt at a well thought out reason: I suppose I pictured the larger end of the pole being made of some really dense metals, so in a way it's like a long ranged hammer.

Ah okay.
Mh, BS...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

By the way, will we be getting all four palettes of Labrynnian soldier uniform?

Oh and you may want to prolong the helm a little on the backside, and... some kind of decoration on the top? Those yellow pixels don't look like they can be a crest, so it's probably just a bit of paint for style.

I'd imagine fairies would be more versed in defensive magic while wizzrobe specialize in attack.
Not sure whether the Twili should have any magic other than Hero characters since theirs was sealed away in the distant past (just saying).

Also wouldn't it be better to go by Tarmian to avoid any chance of confusing Tarminian with Terminian?
And if you're looking for notable Fairies, don't forget:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The first queen we met,


these two troublemakers,


as well as Ciela, Leaf and Neri

Oh and, random thought, maybe the Fairies could have one Minish unit?

[rik209]

I personaly would prefer this one as the queen:

[PaulH]

That is exactly the Queen of Fairies I described in my unit list.

[Duke Serkol]

You know, when one things about it... TWW establishes that fairies live for hundreds of years yet all the fairies in the game have a form we never saw before. For all we know, it might be the same character!

Plus we have a whole bunch of Princess Zeldas, so it's possible both might make it in the game.

Also, it's possible that TWW's four armed Great Fairies may not canon within this mod since Nephalim said the shape of Great Fairies is the same as the race of the observer (and I don't recall TWW Link having four arms, no legs and being charcoal black without pupils...)

I'm starting to suspect the yellow pixels on top of the Labrynnian helmet

may be a rombus. It seems a recurring motive on Queen Ambi's dress:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You can find it on her forehead, her midsection and three of them lined up on the rim of her gown.

Incidentally, a rombus can be said to be made out of two triangles, much like the gem on the Master Sword's hilt:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if the little bit in the middle of the rim of the soldier's helm was a triangle like the ones on Ambi's crown (the ones on the left and right of the rombus in the middle)
...and I notice Nephalim's already has something like that! (It's hard to see because it's yellow on yellow)

So, I imagine this is what the sprite's helm is supposed to look like:

[WEBwarrior094]

Much like Nephalim feels Nintendo's refusal to address mature subjects is detrimental to the series, I feel that this lax outlook on realistic technological development is something that's been doing some major harm to the franchise's credibility ever since MM.

Before I begin, I want to say I'm a big fan of Neph's work and not a hater, but...

This exact mentality has bugged me ever since I began following Nephs work. Whenever I check this forum, I see someone (usually Neph, no offense) complaining about the current nature of the series, and I cannot help but feel they're seeing things through nostalgia goggles.

Neph has complained about issues such as Nintendo being "afraid" to address racial hatred in OoT, and on deviantART (sorry to digress) he once complained about SS, saying he'd much rather use his $40 to get Elder Scrolls: Skyrim.

But the thing about Zelda is, it is, and always has been, a simple fantasy with minimal plot. The original NES game was concieved as a colourful, fun fantasy with an open, explorable world. And the game was aimed at the younger generation. This statement also applies to OoT, LttP, heck, even MM. Nintendo never meant Zelda to be a dark, serious series. If you want to play realistic fantasys like Elder Scrolls, by all means do so. But why do you then look at a game which is completely different and complain that it's not the same?

Granted, when you compare OoT to PH, it seems much darker, but this is more down to the change in what is acceptable for kids. OoT was aimed at the same age group as WW and PH, it's just censors and moral guardians were more lax back then.

Don't get me wrong, I hate Spirit Tracks, but not because of it's light-hearted nature. I hate it because it is on-rails (both figuratively, and perhaps Nintendo's biggest middle finger ever, literally) but I don't hate it because of it not living up to unprecedented standards.

I now formally apoligize for the length of this rant, and the fact that it has little to no relevance to this thread, but I've been holding it in ever since I found Neph on dA, and it had to come out eventually.
Please, remember, I still support and love Hyrule:TW, because I think it's an awesome project in and of itself. Again, sorry for the rant.

[PaulH]

I have a horrible feeling my hard work is about to be lost amongst the responses to the rant... but, I will be honest and place my agreement mostly with WEBWarrior. I feel there is too much resentment for the series which this mod is about, for me it is.. peculiar..

[LordKorloros]

Well, it's just Neph's opinion. I feel the same way about the games (though I think the idea of trains and mechs is awesome, albeit executed questionably) but hey, whatever is there is there, so why complain?

[UndyingNephalim]

Oi! One night of sleep and I have a novel to catch up on here! If only this many people liked my other games!

I'm not even going to bother checking my spelling so forgive me.
Alrighty where to begin...

@PaulH

As with the other lists, I'll stil with the "I loved, I have no final opinion, and what I did not like" response.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

What I loved:
- Golems: Once again I'm not sure how this idea escaped me. It seems likely Fairies would attempt to control or animate larger constructs to help them accomplish big tasks.
- Cavalry: I don't know about horses, but some fast moving units able to trample enemies works for me.
- Icons having to do with celestial bodies: Seems logical the Tarminians would worship such things since their benefactors came from the sky.

No final opinion:
- Mostly everything else since it's hard for me to really come to final conclusions before I start working on the factions in question.
- Use of celestial weaponry: I'm looking at the Starcallers as an example of this one. I suppose the ability to use weaponry of this type would be fitting for them.

What I did not like:
- There's not really anything that stood out too much here for me to not be considered. I'm not sure I exactly am on the same boat with Fairies cross breeding with other races but hey, I did it with Hylians and Zoras so it's not that far out of an idea I guess.

As always the thought and effort put into these lists shows and they will serve as good reference points when I work on or go back to fix up other factions..

@LordAmbler

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I stand by by argument that gun powder has already been introduced and been a feature of the series since the first game in the form of Bombs (and the actual term "gun powder" was finally used in Majora's Mask). Considering things such as old-man-grandpa bazookas have been used by Auru, and cannon weaponry in general, I really don't think it's much of a stretch at all for one of the races to finally get the idea of making a handheld version of these long existing concepts.

@Duke Serkol

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

By the way, will we be getting all four palettes of Labrynnian soldier uniform?

Odds are more against it as I want them to stick to their indigo and bronze/gold color schemes.

Those yellow pixels don't look like they can be a crest, so it's probably just a bit of paint for style.

I figured the yellowish marks on the top of their sprites were just where light causing a glare or something of that nature on their helms

Nephalim said the shape of Great Fairies is the same as the race of the observer

I suppose you could say I consider the look of the Fairies from TWW their true forms more or less. They look much more like freaky aliens which is how I always pictured them behind their glows in OoT. I never really pictured them as hot little women with bug wings.

But the thing about Zelda is, it is, and always has been, a simple fantasy with minimal plot.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Why is this a reason to keep it that way and not expand further to make it even better? I'm sorry but I hardly find "well it's always been this way" a valid excuse to not expand and push further.

Don't worry I'm not angry or anything as many people have been confused by my opinion on the series, and I get the impression you more so confused about my opinions rather then hateful of them. I guess I just feel, as you mentioned, the series has failed to really evolve and grow up. The fact that they've made games like TP and the HD demo just proves that the series is capable of going more in a direction like Elder Scrolls, and it just really upsets me that they've only made one game and one demo in this mold and continue to spam more and more Toon games or games with weird art styles to hide the technical limitations of the Wii. I just get the vibe that the more recent Zelda games have minimal effort put into them since Nintendo knows they'll automatically sell like gold. I also get the vibe that all the weird art styles are simply a coverup to distract people from the graphical weakness of their systems (especially in the case of Skyward Sword, which spent more then a year in advanced TP styled graphics before they randomly decided to change them). Is it true they put little effort, used weird art styles to cover up system limitations, and just spammed these games to make money? I dunno, maybe, maybe not. It's just a vibe I get and why I'm upset over them.

[PaulH]

I think it is well known that having a new style makes sense for a system which is basically a repackaged Gamecube. Having a more comical style does not mean it is more childish, what it does mean is that it can look gorgeous without worrying about the technical limitations, and that its graphics will age better. Compare Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, both very different art styles, but Wind Waker looks vastly superior on my 50" HDTV than Twilight Princess. Why? Because Wind Waker's more simplistic art style ages far better and could easily be of a graphical quality of games released on PS3 or Xbox (kinda like Valkyria Chronicles has an anime art style which features quiet simplistic models), wheras Twilight Princesses more "real" appearance ages far earlier.

Long term, it makes sense to have a more comical style, and truth be told... I would rather Skyward Sword had a comical style which kept it gorgeous, than a Twilight Princess style which made it look dated from the offset.

Btw, the Faeids are whatever you want them to be, tis why I left their description vague. They could be half-breeds of Tarminians and Fairies, or could be "ascended" Tarminians, or wahtever you like.

[UndyingNephalim]

@PaulH
I think this again goes back to the "art is subjective" idea. Personally I don't think Windwaker has aged well at all. Ocarina of Time or TP has not aged well either. But for me I don't care if it ages well or not. Ocarina of Time looks like an ugly butt and yet it's still beautiful to me because of the impact it had on me. The charisma of the setting and the realism of the characters and their plights made me become attached to them and the land. The game actually motivated me to finish it because I could actually relate to the characters and they felt human to me. While I consider Windwaker a good game, it was the start of what I like to call "the characters act like goofballs and are inhuman" syndrome. It's much harder for me to become attached to a character and want to save them when they make light of everything going on around them. Do I really want to save a kid running around with a giant booger hanging out of his nose? No, I want to save Saria who actually understands the reality of the situation and acts like a person about it, not a goofball. Granted not everyone in Windwaker was like this, which is why I never really rip on that game that much. Laruto in particular stands out as a character that actually acts in accordance to her personal situation and the situations of the game and does not make light of it or act like a goofball. This brings me around to the point that it really is not the art styles I dislike, it's how the art, the music, and the sound effect are used and how the characters are portrayed that I dislike. If the people in the Toon games actually behaved like real people and not happy goofballs it would be much easier for me to buy into what's going on. But that's just me and my personal preference.