Hyrule: Total War - Link to Subforums in First Post

[Duke Serkol]

That's Talon from Oracle of Seasons.

Talon (notice the Bowser pin), a character from OoT,

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

was based on Tarin

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

who was probably a mix of Mario and ALttP Link's uncle

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

so the answer to your question is... sorta?

[WindGuru]

Wait, racism in mah Zelda?

Kidding, but I've only just noticed that most important characters in the series DO have pointed ears. I'm not sure about Labrynnians, but they certainly seem human (round ears), and not Hylian (pointed ears)?

[UndyingNephalim]

@Lord Wiffleby
I'd give you more rep if I could. It's true though, not everything that has child sized creatures means it's specifically designed for people with an attention span of a five year old. Need I point out the Hobbits in LOTR? They are quite childish yet I'd not consider LOTR something designed for little children. Likewise things portrayed as what I call "uber-macho-gritty" can come off as quite immature. I don't mean to insult Gears of War fans but that's probably a prime example of what I mean.

@LordAmbler
I'm glad everything is shaping up. You would be correct in your assessment that the older factions need redos. The to-do list for them has seen a lot more red added in the last few months.

@Duke Serkol
I need to compress this so that page does not get too big.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This. When one has the talent to make a MOD like yours Nephalim, a little arrogance is not just warranted, it's outright prescribed.

Well I'm going to try and be humble regardless I suppose.

If we look into the backstory of the various factions, there are some things that may come off as extraneous to Zelda (such as unjustified racial hatred... thinking of the Labrynnians here).

I don't recall mentioning that the Labrynnians had any racial hatred to the other races, but there is indeed racial hatred between others (the Gerudo and Hylians, the Zora and Gorons for example.) I'd probably say the Gerudo's hatred is justified since the Kingdom of Hyrule has suppressed them and essentially is doing their best to starve the Gerudo to death in their barren homelands. The Zora are just smug superior perfectionists, at least that's the impression I always got from them. They don't so much have racial hatred, they just view themselves as the superior form of life and society and everything is lesser and must be converted or removed.

The Gohma have banners. They look great that's not the problem. The thing is... where do these come from?

All the banners will be removed and replaced with actual banner carriers like in TATW, these are all just placeholders for the time being.

I like these guys, but... how come Lanayru Zoras don't ride them? That'd be more interesting and unique than horses.

They actually were going to be the original mounts but I was having too many animation related problems between them and the riders.

I notice that Ikana is still listed as a faction. How will they differ from the Stalfos?

The Stalfos are basically mindless automatons raised from graves after death. They're little more then metaphorical machines conrolled by puppet masters. Ikana was swallowed into Termina and corrupted by Majora. They basically unwillingly became undead while they were still alive and they still retain their will and personalities. If I were to make a comparison I'd say the Stalfos are like a mindless horde of Zombies that wander around and do nothing until ordered while Ikana is like the cursed Army of the Dead from LOTR.

Oh, actually I can clear this up, if you'd like me to (and no, it's not due to a mistranslation). I figured I'd ask if you care to read about it before spontaneously going on a lecture or something

If I were to make a guess I'd say in the case of both TP and Majora's Mask the term 'human' was used to differentiate Link between man and beast?

@The Holy Pilgrim
I believe that's Talon, a parody of Mario.

[Duke Serkol]

I need to compress this so that page does not get too big.

Yeah, better not explode the thread.

Well I'm going to try and be humble regardless I suppose.

All the more awesomeness for you.

I don't recall mentioning that the Labrynnians

I'm sorry, 't was a brain fart. I was actually thinking about the Lanayru Zoras (always get that name mixed up with Labrynna in my head) that are hated by both Zora and Hylians for being unwanted cross-breeds, right? That seems the kind of issue Nintendo would not want to appear in Zelda (and as of consequence, the world of Zelda has been woven in such a way that the notion comes of as extraneous).
At least, that's how I feel about it.

I'd probably say the Gerudo's hatred is justified since the Kingdom of Hyrule has suppressed them and essentially is doing their best to starve the Gerudo to death in their barren homelands.

And viceversa the Hylians aren't happy of being robbed on a regular basis by them, yes.

The Zora are just smug superior perfectionists, at least that's the impression I always got from them. They don't so much have racial hatred, they just view themselves as the superior form of life and society and everything is lesser and must be converted or removed.

Never saw them as being that self centered (not to the point of going Nazi on the rest of Hyrule, at least). But okay, the Gorons don't have being jerks registered as a trademark

All the banners will be removed and replaced with actual banner carriers like in TATW, these are all just placeholders for the time being.

So you already have something in mind to solve the "where do spiders get banners?" issue?

They actually were going to be the original mounts but I was having too many animation related problems between them and the riders.

Oh, that's too bad. Maybe you can give it another try after everything else with precedence has been taken care of.

Ikana was swallowed into Termina

Oh, is that theory based on the Triforce imagery in Ikana? It's neat, but seems a bit of a stretch to speculate that an entire kingdom was transported into a parallel dimension when knowledge of the Triforce could have reached Termina with just a single traveler like Link (a priest perhaps that set off to convert the people in Termina).

They basically unwillingly became undead while they were still alive and they still retain their will and personalities. If I were to make a comparison I'd say the Stalfos are like a mindless horde of Zombies that wander around and do nothing until ordered while Ikana is like the cursed Army of the Dead from LOTR.

Okay, but aside from backstory, what will distinguish them in the game?

If I were to make a guess I'd say in the case of both TP and Majora's Mask the term 'human' was used to differentiate Link between man and beast?

Also but not only.

Here's some lines from MM

"Did you memorize the code?
If only you were human...then I
could make you a Bombers
member...Too bad!"

"Ah...hmm...Now that's a problem...
See, we sell potions to humans
only.

I don't think they'll work on
anything but humans...Sorry, but
you'll have to leave."

"Atop the hill here in Ikana, no
human presence is felt, except
that of the parent and child living
in the house with the waterwheel."

"To save the cursed human, his
soul must be healed."

As you can see, Link is not the only one being called human.

I actually just now made a little research on the term in the various Zelda games since MM. The word shows up more than even I realized! Here's some examples. I don't list them all because by the time Minish Cap and Twilight Princess came along, the term was used dozens of times (whereas Hylian is only used once in TMC and only to refer to ancient Hylian lore)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OoA

"None can stop
Veran now! You
can only wait
for the Flame of
Sorrow to light!
What a view! All
humanity can
feel the sorrow!
Ah hah hah hah!"

"You humans are
looking stranger
every day. What
happened?"

"Just who is this
Nayru..?
I can only see
her as a monster
in human guise.
I wonder if the
Queen is
all right..."

OoS

"Goron or human,
health is all
that matters!"

TWW

"It would seem that the wind god Cyclos
bears some ill will toward humans."

"Once upon a time, long ago, the Koroks
took on human forms, but when they came
to live on the sea, they took these shapes."

FSA

"Ganon... This beast was once
of the Gerudo... Once human.
He was called Ganondorf!"

TMC

"Long, long ago, and then even longer
before that...
Evil creatures appeared in the world
of humans.
They were powerful, frightening
beasts, and they created such trouble!
But then the Picori came from the sky,
bringing humans powerful magic."

"Only once every hundred years does
the mystic doorway open.
This is the door that links the human
world to the world of the Picori."

"A priest living in Minish Village. He
speaks some human languages. He sees
that Link is human with one look.
He's a bit of a human enthusiast."

"You've heard of travelers who pick up a
stone and find something under it?
Well, those items were actually left
there by us Minish!
You see, we thrive on making humans
happy. It gives us energy.
But we only do it in secret!"

"Have you noticed something odd about
the Mountain Minish?
They're just a little different from
the Forest Minish, aren't they?
There seem to be many kinds of Minish,
just as there are many kinds of human.
And...many kinds of hat, too.
Mustn't forget the hats."

"These iron automata here were built
by the Minish ages ago to help humans.
It's kind of a secret, but there's a
switch inside that turns them on or off."

TP

"Well, this isn't good. A human
doctor won't do, huh...

That old coot reminded me,
though... I've heard of a shaman in
Kakariko Village, in the Eldin lands,
who's tended Gorons and Zoras."

"And what's with putting that temple
so deep that humans can't swim
there?! I swear, those Zoras..."

"He is a proud Goron, and he can
be...touchy. If he knew he had
been saved by a human..."

"Ugh... Why do I have to stand guard...
The ladder is destroyed, so it is not
like any humans will come up...

And what is with the elders? If we
have a problem the humans can help
with, we should ask. It is better than
suffering for the sake of pride.

Repelling humans by force... What a
depressing job..."

"No human outsider must pass!"

Those definitely can't all be mistranslations
(And Gorons are jerks)

Now as for how we can make sense of all this.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

First of all, let's take note that the term Hylian, along with most of Zelda's "mythology" was established in ALttP. What's most interesting however is that according to ALttP, Hylians no longer exist!

"The legends say the mythical gods of Hyrule had as their chosen people the Hylia. These ancient people left scrolls that are the primary source of the legends."

"With their magic infused blood, the Hylian people were endowed with psychic powers and skill in wizardry. It was also said that their long, pointed ears enabled them to hear special messages from the gods, so they were held in high esteem by many people in Hyrule. Their descendants settled in various parts of the world and passed on their knowledge and magical lore to all people. But in its passing, the lore was often distorted or lost altogether.
In Hyrule, there are many Hylian buildings which are mentioned repeatedly in the legends. These buildings, which now lie in ruin, pale shadows of their former splendor, are closely tied to the Triforce."

This passage here by the way ("With their magic infused blood, the Hylian people were endowed with psychic powers and skill in wizardry.") is why I keep saying Hylians should have mages!

Anyway, as you can see, ALttP treats Hylians as bygones ("they were held in high esteem by many people in Hyrule. Their descendants settled in various parts of the world and passed on their knowledge and magical lore to all people. But in its passing, the lore was often distorted or lost altogether.")

Yet, every single person in ALttP has pointy ears! How does that work? Well, it's really quite simple, the people in ALttP are the descendants that the above passage speaks of, whose blood however has been mixed over the generations with that of non-Hylians to the point that pure-blood Hylians do not exist anymore.
Or even if they exist (and they probably do, because an entire race doesn't disappear that easily), they have lost their cultural identity and no longer identify themselves as Hylians (consider ancient Romans and Italians).
I like to call these half breed descendants Hyrulians, and use the word Hyrulean instead for anything and anybody that comes from Hyrule. But that's just me.

Conversely, in OoT which happens many centuries before ALttP, the Hylians are alive and very aware of their identity:
"They say we [COLOR=sky blue]Hylians [/COLOR]have big ears
in order to hear the voices of the
gods...but I've never heard them!"

Some think the pure blood Hylians have ears slightly different from the half breed descendants, that pure Hylian ears point outward

while the half breed descendants have ears pointing upward

but that might just be due to a different art style, hard to tell.

So can it be said that Hylians stopped existing because they mixed their blood with humans?
Well... not quite.

The thing is, Hylians are humans. Always have been. They are, in fact, a race of humans, much like, say, caucasians.

And really, this is pretty much necessary for Hylians to reproduce with non-Hylian humans. See that's actually what scientifically differentiates species from race. Members of the same species but of different races can have off-springs together, whereas members of different species cannot (human+monkey... not gonna work).

And if you check out those quotes I dug up for you, you'll see that Hylians are not alone in being considered humans:
"Ganon... This beast was once
of the Gerudo... Once human.
He was called Ganondorf!"

Yup, the Gerudo tribe is a race of humans as well! (Can't bring up any evidence but I imagine so are the Sheikah... assuming they are not just a Hylian sub-tribe, as I suspect they might be. And may as well lump the Wind Tribe in there too)

On the other hand, Gorons and Zoras are clearly not considered humans.
Again, observe the quotes above:
"Goron or human,
health is all
that matters!"

"Well, this isn't good. A human
doctor won't do, huh...

That old coot reminded me,
though... I've heard of a shaman in
Kakariko Village, in the Eldin lands,
who's tended Gorons and Zoras."

"And what's with putting that temple
so deep that humans can't swim
there?! I swear, those Zoras..."

"He is a proud Goron, and he can
be...touchy. If he knew he had
been saved by a human..."

...which incidentally means Hylians and Zoras can't reproduce together... not much of a shock considering they are mammal and oviparous respectively

[UndyingNephalim]

That seems the kind of issue Nintendo would not want to appear in Zelda (and as of consequence, the world of Zelda has been woven in such a way that the notion comes of as extraneous).

To me this is more or less an issue I think the series needs to overcome and a reason why it generally gets the stigma that the games are getting more childish and immature. Particularly in games like OoT and MM all these things are established but they never really push for more and go over the edge with it. For instance there's obvious animosity between the Gerudo and Hylians in OoT but it's never expanded upon probably because Nintendo was "too afraid" of a higher ESBR rating or that it would get "too heavy of a subject" for little kids to understand. One of my goals from the outset of this was to completely throw out any fear of things getting "too dark" or "too adult related." I don't want this to be Toddler Total War after all.

Never saw them as being that self centered (not to the point of going Nazi on the rest of Hyrule, at least)

I don't think I'd compare them to Nazis as they don't enact their goals with heavy military force, and they are not exactly hateful of other races. I pictured them more like the Elves in LOTR, where they are just smug amongst themselves when they talk about issues regarding other races.

So you already have something in mind to solve the "where do spiders get banners?" issue?

They probably won't have banners.

Oh, that's too bad. Maybe you can give it another try after everything else with precedence has been taken care of.

I'll give it another try for sure.

Oh, is that theory based on the Triforce imagery in Ikana?

It it indeed more or less based off the Hylian imagery found in the Kingdom of Ikana and the Stone Tower Temple. Perhaps the Stone Tower Temple was an attempt to get back to Hyrule? (maybe not Hyrule proper, but the "real world" and not the messed up world of Termina.)

Stalfos are completely immune to psychological effects like fear and thus are unable to retreat in game. They also recruit new units by killing enemies. Ikana soldiers are not immune to fear since they still have the minds they had in life and they do not recruit soldiers by raising the dead.

@ the subject of "Humans"

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If we're to define 'Human' in broader terms other then the specific species that exists here on earth then I can buy into that for canon Zelda (I actually think human refers to something broader then a specific species in canon anyway). That is sort of it what I was getting at by differentiating the humanity of Link from his various non-humanoid counterparts. It seems "Human" is used to refer to any sentient mammalian biped in the series rather the specific race (because as noted specific race names such as Hylian, Sheikah, and Ordonians have been outright said in the same games where the term human was used). In the mythos of this mod it's pretty much obvious that they all descended from pure blooded Hylians, so your assessment that the various humanoids are just sub races of a single species works for me and this game regardless of whatever the truth in canon Zelda is.

[Duke Serkol]

One of my goals from the outset of this was to completely throw out any fear of things getting "too dark" or "too adult related."

the risk there is to go beyond what Zelda, at its core, is.
Ah well, so long as it doesn't turn into Berserk.

I don't think I'd compare them to Nazis as they don't enact their goals with heavy military force, and they are not exactly hateful of other races. I pictured them more like the Elves in LOTR, where they are just smug amongst themselves when they talk about issues regarding other races.

Oh okay, I'm cool with that (not a pun over frozen Zoras... I think).

They probably won't have banners.

Ah, all the better. I thought you might either want them to have those or could not avoid letting them have some form of banner.

It it indeed more or less based off the Hylian imagery found in the Kingdom of Ikana and the Stone Tower Temple. Perhaps the Stone Tower Temple was an attempt to get back to Hyrule? (maybe not Hyrule proper, but the "real world" and not the messed up world of Termina.)

Can't really say I see that. Ikana seems well rooted into Termina. They fought their war against the Garo in ancient times and their Stone Tower appears to have a deep connection with Majora

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

might even be where Majora had been sealed since ancient times before the Mask Salesman dug it up (incidentally awakening the dead in Ikana).

Stalfos are completely immune to psychological effects like fear and thus are unable to retreat in game. They also recruit new units by killing enemies. Ikana soldiers are not immune to fear since they still have the minds they had in life and they do not recruit soldiers by raising the dead.

Ah, I see.
Personally, I would have saved them for the eventual Termina submod, like the Garo faction (making room for River Zoras perhaps) but that's not my call to make.

It seems "Human" is used to refer to any sentient mammalian biped in the series rather the specific race (because as noted specific race names such as Hylian, Sheikah, and Ordonians have been outright said in the same games where the term human was used).

Well, sort of. I imagine Wolfos would not be considered human even if they were sentient. You probably need to be a variation of human and not something else entirely.
You've gotta wonder though... the Zoras are not mammalian, that much is clear... but what the heck are Gorons anyway? (personally I think they reproduce by parthenogenesis)

Oh and I'd wager Ordonian is more of a nationality than a race (or... a provinciality?), but it doesn't really matter.

In the mythos of this mod it's pretty much obvious that they all descended from pure blooded Hylians, so your assessment that the various humanoids are just sub races of a single species works for me and this game

They meaning the pointy eared people? Or do you suggest that in the mod all humans, originally, had pointy ears?

Anyway, the important thing is... Labrynnians will have rounded ears like Ordonians, right?

[UndyingNephalim]

the risk there is to go beyond what Zelda, at its core, is.
Ah well, so long as it doesn't turn into Berserk.

In terms of tone and subject matter I'm trying to stick mostly with Ocarina of Time. The only real difference is instead of critical events (like Ganondorf's takeover of Hyrule during the seven years Link was gone) just being implied and talked about shortly or as if it was history, these sort of events actually happen. The game is about armies fighting each other after all. Usually there's some sort of hatred or superiority complex involved when an army invades another nation.

You've gotta wonder though... the Zoras are not mammalian, that much is clear...

It probably was more so a design choice to help distinguish Ruto as female, but if taken literally it might imply the Zoras were at one time mammals in the past and eventually evolved into the fish they are (They could even still be aquatic mammals like Dolphins or Whales rather then fish). Even if they are fish it's not too far of a stretch for them to have mammalian origins considering they somehow changed biological Class in Windwaker when they evolved into birds.

but what the heck are Gorons anyway?

Without getting too far into biology and chemistry I'd probably say they are a silicon based creature. If not they probably are just some weird mammalian freaks of nature.

They meaning the pointy eared people? Or do you suggest that in the mod all humans, originally, had pointy ears?

I do mean all humanoids, pointy eared or not (to be specific the modern Hylians, Sheikah, Ordonians, Kokiri, and Labrynnians). They are descendants of the "ancient pure blooded Hylians." I don't want to spoil too much in terms of backstory, but I sort of wanted to imply that the Sheikah actually are the last of the true pure blooded Hylians (hence why they have mages and are so concerned about their bloodlines).

Anyway, the important thing is... Labrynnians will have rounded ears like Ordonians, right?

Yes indeed they will.

[rik209]

I do mean all humanoids, pointy eared or not (to be specific the modern Hylians, Sheikah, Ordonians, Kokiri, and Labrynnians). They are descendants of the "ancient pure blooded Hylians." I don't want to spoil too much in terms of backstory, but I sort of wanted to imply that the Sheikah actually are the last of the true pure blooded Hylians (hence why they have mages and are so concerned about their bloodlines).

and what about the gerudo? in FSA they said Ganon...This beast was once of the Gerudo...Once human. He was called Ganondorf!

[Duke Serkol]

It probably was more so a design choice to help distinguish Ruto as female, but if taken literally it might imply the Zoras were at one time mammals in the past and eventually evolved into the fish they are

I remember when the issue was first brought to my attention. The person I was talking to insisted that Ruto's could only be "extra roomy lungs for oxygen storage"

Without getting too far into biology and chemistry I'd probably say they are a silicon based creature. If not they probably are just some weird mammalian freaks of nature.

I agree. Still, no she-Gorons and yet they too now have nipples. Maybe those produce small soft pebbles that eventually drop off and can be eaten by babies?

I do mean all humanoids, pointy eared or not (to be specific the modern Hylians, Sheikah, Ordonians, Kokiri, and Labrynnians). They are descendants of the "ancient pure blooded Hylians."

The Kokiri are, as far as we know, children of the Deku Tree and not real human beings
("Once upon a time, long ago, the Koroks
took on human forms, but when they came
to live on the sea, they took these shapes.")
Other than that... it's possible, I guess. We don't really know which was the earliest human species in Hyrule, whether it was the round eared ones or pointy eared ones. We've seen monkeys both with pointy and rounded ears.
I'd always assumed the contrary, that a race of humans evolved pointed ears as they became the chosen people of the Gods, but who knows.

I sort of wanted to imply that the Sheikah actually are the last of the true pure blooded Hylians (hence why they have mages and are so concerned about their bloodlines).

Seems to me more likely for the Sheikah to be an offshot from the Hylians, but they are ultimately a mystery (one that may unravel in Skyward Sword perhaps) so it's up to anyone to guess.

[Fighterofnorth19]

Will siege wepons be different for each faction?

[UndyingNephalim]

and what about the gerudo?

Odds are the Gerudo also descended from ancient Hylians, but they don't like to believe that and insist they are not. It's never going to be made a fact in this game what bloodlines go where, I'm just saying I personally believe all the human like beings came from the ancient pure blooded Hylians, considering they seem to be claimed as the oldest race to ever exist in Hyrule until the Oocca were introduced.

I remember when the issue was first brought to my attention. The person I was talking to insisted that Ruto's could only be "extra roomy lungs for oxygen storage"

Perhaps they are a gas bladders to help her float?

Maybe those produce small soft pebbles that eventually drop off and can be eaten by babies?

Somehow I get the impression developers at Nintendo did not put this much thought or effort behind their design choices. Like most theorized Silicon creatures they probably produce offspring through fission.

The Kokiri are, as far as we know, children of the Deku Tree and not real human beings

In the mythology of this mod the Kokiri are descended from a group of Hylian Bandits that would raid and pillage from the Kokiri Forest. They made the mistake of burning down Deku Trees and as such they were all exterminated, with the exception of the children whom were spared. Several generations later their descendants have become the Kokiri seen here now. Naturally the Great Deku Tree likes to keep these people in complete childlike ignorance so he's done his best to cover up their history from them.

I'd always assumed the contrary, that a race of humans evolved pointed ears as they became the chosen people of the Gods, but who knows.

It's possible there was even a precursor race to the first Hylians. I doubt the subject will ever be touched on in an official game though.

Will siege wepons be different for each faction?

Indeed there will be different siege weapons for each race.

[Fighterofnorth19]

what faction will zelda characters as Milon or the wind waker pirate's be with?

[Duke Serkol]

Somehow I get the impression developers at Nintendo did not put this much thought or effort behind their design choices.

Yeah, that's probably true.

In the mythology of this mod the Kokiri are descended from a group of Hylian Bandits that would raid and pillage from the Kokiri Forest. They made the mistake of burning down Deku Trees and as such they were all exterminated, with the exception of the children whom were spared. Several generations later their descendants have become the Kokiri seen here now. Naturally the Great Deku Tree likes to keep these people in complete childlike ignorance so he's done his best to cover up their history from them.

Mh, that's definitely contrary to canon.
So, if it's the Deku Tree keeping them children, how do they have descendants? TWW confirms that new Koroks are born from the Deku Tree. It's implied that it was the same with the Kokiri (regardless of whether they were born plant and then took human forms or came out of cocoons looking like that) because the ghost Sage Fado was a Kokiri we didn't see in OoT (likely succeeding Saria as Sage).
But these are humans in your mod, not pod people, yet they never reach adulthood... so the question poses itself, how do their numbers grow?

[UndyingNephalim]

Yeah, that's probably true.


Mh, that's definitely contrary to canon.
So, if it's the Deku Tree keeping them children, how do they have descendants? TWW confirms that new Koroks are born from the Deku Tree. It's implied that it was the same with the Kokiri (regardless of whether they were born plant and then took human forms or came out of cocoons looking like that) because the ghost Sage Fado was a Kokiri we didn't see in OoT (likely succeeding Saria as Sage).
But these are humans in your mod, not pod people, yet they never reach adulthood... so the question poses itself, how do their numbers grow?

Most of this information is in the Kokri section on the first post, but essentially a Kokiri grows to a certain age and then the Great Deku Tree allows the Kokiri to metamorphosis into Koroks. Koroks then make their seeds and distribute them. Then this happens:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Duke Serkol]

Ah, so they still are pod people, they just descend from a bunch of bandits, gotcha.

[PaulH]

I'm too tired to read the constant posts full of answering other peoples quotes, but I will say this:

Be careful of arrogance as a mod leader, as such arrogance can end up leading to a substandard mod as arrogance often leads to the leader overlooking ideas or help. Arrogance is never good, but pride in what you have achieved is obviously perfectly fine, but do not be arrogant enough to cling to ideas you love or that are constantly praised, in the face of different concepts. After having been a mod leader of a very large mod in the past (20 team members, absolutely huge endeavor which sadly failed, so I have good experience), I know that arrogance ruins mods and that you will always have folks who only praise efforts and never truly contemplate whether they actually should praise it. My advice? Take constant praise with a pinch of salt, be open minded, and never have an ego when it comes to modding.


That, and I am half-way through my rewrite of the Fairy Unit List.

[UndyingNephalim]

@Duke Serkol
Indeed. The Great Deku Tree has been transforming them into plants.

@PaulH
Well amongst those giant posts I mentioned that I'd do my best to be humble. I'm far from perfect and in the past I've made some pretty bad choices in regards to Zelda. I guess my outburst was more so a comment on why people think certain things showing up in Zelda would be odd. Considering all the outright weird and crazy things that have shown up in the canon games that everyone just seems to accept no problem (I can't emphasize the content Spirit Tracks enough), I just find it odd when I do something that has appeared in the actual canon games as far back as Majora's Mask like steam powered machinery and people say it's out of place.

[LordKorloros]

Call me ignorant, but I thought it would be cool to see warships that are a mix of WWII and Steampunk in Zelda.

[Duke Serkol]

you will always have folks who only praise efforts and never truly contemplate whether they actually should praise it. My advice? Take constant praise with a pinch of salt, be open minded

Well amongst those giant posts I mentioned that I'd do my best to be humble.

...and that's my cue to chime in with my tree main points of obsession: Hylian mages, dog Moblins and River Zoras. There's some good ideas not to overlook

Sorry, had to
...my three obsessions all consist of "name of race"+"some manner of attribute". I hadn't realized that.

I guess my outburst was more so a comment on why people think certain things showing up in Zelda would be odd. Considering all the outright weird and crazy things that have shown up in the canon games that everyone just seems to accept no problem (I can't emphasize the content Spirit Tracks enough), I just find it odd when I do something that has appeared in the actual canon games as far back as Majora's Mask like steam powered machinery and people say it's out of place.

That was an outburst? It's gotta be the most polite and subdued outburst I've ever seen

As for feeling that things which long made it into canon may still be extraneous... that's just personal taste really. Until the games actually make the effort of properly explaining where these technologies are coming from and why Hyrule apparently is following a different path of discoveries than ours, these anachronisms will keep on bugging me

But really, there's examples outside of Zelda of additions to franchises that are rejected by the fanbase. Consider Galactica 1980.

[UndyingNephalim]

But really, there's examples outside of Zelda of additions to franchises that are rejected by the fanbase. Consider Galactica 1980.

Coincidence I just watched the 1978 Galactica a bit earlier?

Hylian mages, dog Moblins and River Zoras.

Well if you'd consider Sheikah pure blooded Hylians then technically that means there are Hylian mages in the game already, and River Zoras have been on the unit list on the first post for months now. Technically my Moblins are a blend of both the piggish and dog Moblins of OoT so maybe that one meets halfway?

Anywhoness, Labrynna stuff finally:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ok, so there's not really much to go by for Labrynna. All we really have to go by is little sprite for a soldier from OoA: . I've done my best to take from the style of that sprite, as well as take from some other influences that have appeared from throughout the series but never really belonged to any culture. See if you can notice those influences.

Borderguards:
Between Hyrule proper to the far west and Labrynna to the east lay a large stretch of uninhabited lands. Along this stretch of lands the Borderguards remain stationed at various camps and outposts to assure none can invade without warning from the west. Little more then sentries, Borderguards are only modestly armed and only have basic training.




Homeguards:
The main police and law force of Labrynna, Homeguards are found in virtually every city of the Regime. Armed with a heavy pole-arm and shield, they are effective crowd control during both civil unrest and during war time on the battlefield.