I'll probably make those particular units with each faction that can produce them. At this point I figure I'm going to do two factions at a time with all their units until they are done (in this case I'm just doing Gerudo and Hylians. After they are done I'll be moving unto Gorons and Zora, etc). So yes, I'll be working on those models before I get to a campaign.
I'm liking the sound of that. Have you got ideas down for what the first two races will be able to gain from the temples? If not, I can have a try at helping out with ideas.
I'm liking the sound of that. Have you got ideas down for what the first two races will be able to gain from the temples? If not, I can have a try at helping out with ideas.
At the moment I am not sure yet, I just know the units that the faction whom starts out with said temples will get. For instance the Gerudo Start with the Spirit Temple and will get the Bronze Knuckles from it (and Iron Knuckles after the game progresses). Feel free to throw out ideas if you wish.
I see these special units as a chance to show abit of magic that is generally not seen in the battles for Hyrule, so I have worked out a few examples of what could be produced by the Gerudo and Hylians:
The Fire Temple:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Maidens of Din - Hylian Priestesses devoted to the worship of the Goddess Din and maintaining and protection of her Temples. After years of study and religious sacrifice, these Maiden's have been gifted with the blessing of Din's Fire.
In basic terms, a unit which uses Greek Fire aka a Flamethrowing unit for Kingdom of Hyrule.
Flare Dancers (Version 1) - Residing deep within the heart of Death Mountain are the Flare Dancers, elemental creatures of fire, born from the intense heat of the volcano. Long have they been a bane of the Goron, who they fight mercilessly with. Where the Goron see foes, the Gerudo see potential allies..
Flare Dancers (Version 2) - After having taken control of the Fire Temple from Goron hands, the Gerudo thieves plundered the treasures within, totally desecrating the Temple in the process. Among the treasures aquired were Goron Tunics, and blades that burst into flame. These now are worn to mock the Goron, yet also to bring the blessings of fire to the battlefield.
The idea being for both, of a melee unit which makes use of flaming melee attacks rather than the usual ranged ones (aka, Fire Arrows). The difference between them being that Version 1 would have the fire as permenant but also as a non-Gerudo species, which gives the Gerudo some variation. Version 2 would have the fire as a special ability, but maintain the collective unity of the Gerudo having an all warrior women force.
The Shadow Temple:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Shiekah - Having long ago sworn loyalty to the Royal Family of Hyrule, the Shiekah have since been amongst their staunchest, and rarest, of protectors. These ninja-like warriors are expert infiltrators, capable of hiding in plain sight and unleashing devastating ambush attacks.
A unit which is both ranged and melee, strong fighters, amazing levels of concealment but with a small unit size. Possibly they wear the Mask of Truth, just as a little throwback to Ocarina of Time.
The ReDead - The Shadow Temple near to Kakariko Graveyard has long been a place which has been associated with paranormal activity in the forms of Poes or even the occassional Stalfos. Yet worse came to light in the Gerudo plunder of the Temple, ReDead. These twisted creatures of undeath wail and scream, which freezes their foes in place, eroding their morale. Somehow, the Gerudo have encouraged these to their side.
I'm thinking it'd be an average sized unit, which has a special ability of wailing and screaming (kinda like a negative version of the Druids from Roman Total War who stood chanting). It'd reduce morale, and if possible slow down a unit, but whilst they are screaming they would be unable to move or attack.
Temple of Time:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Keepers of Time - The Temple of Time is not only the religious center of the Kingdom of Hyrule, but in reality is the grand cover for the location of the Blade of Evil's Bane and the Pedestal of Time, key to the way into the Sacred Realm. In the distant past, the Royal Family of Hyrule were on good relations with the Oocca people, who gifted them with a Dominion Rod, which is now locked away deep within the Temple. Upon gaining the gift, a few weaker duplicates were created by the Hylians and are now used in the defence of the Sacred Realm.
A unit which works like the War Dog unit from Roman Total War, consisting of a bunch of heavily armoured Hylians armed with Dominion Rods, which control the "pet" unit of a large Statue.
Twinrova's - Time is often viewed as an hourglass with sand pouring from one end to the other, the Gerudo obviously shared this viewpoint, as unlike other Temples with a connection to the Golden Goddesses, the plundering was spared and it was kept mostly intact. Instead, the Temple is patrolled by some of the very rare Gerudo witches rumoured to have been taught by Ganondorf's surrogate mothers, Koume and Kotake.
Not the greatest idea yet, I know. My thought is that they would work like a weak version of the Greek Fire, but with the special ability of firing a jet of ice instead, just as the Twinrova boss can use both kinds of magic. The fire would be more damaging, but perhaps the ice would have a greater effect on morale, or would slow down the enemy unit (if at all possible).
The Spirit Temple:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Arbiters - With the discovery of the Mirror of Twilight in the Spirit Temple, the place soon became the prison of those deemed too evil to be allowed to remain within or near to the Kingdom of Hyrule. Arbiters were employed to keep these beasts and fiends in line, and also to personally decide whether or not they are guilty enough to be sent through the Mirror into the Twilight beyond.
Every kingdom has a darker side, and these Arbiter's are the Kingdom of Hyrules. These will be a unit similar to the Iron Knuckles unfortunately, but with 15 factions, it is hard to make too many which are unique! I see them as being heavily armoured, with broadswords as their weapon, and having a very strong morale. Possibly being mounted?
Iron Knuckle - The spirits of Gerudian men bound into heavily armoured shells.
This unit is in the Gerudo faction list already, and even has a model, so that one doesn't need writing up by me!
The Forest Temple:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Maidens of Farore- Hylians are more used to combat upon plains and fields than forest warfare, and it shows in the difficulty of capturing the Forest Temple. In order to improve the efficiency of their armed forces in the forests, the Kingdom of Hyrule recovered Fairy Bows from within the heart of the Temple. These magical bows were gifted to greatest of Farore's Priestesses, who were tasked with guarding the Forest Temple.
I know, another ranged special unit for Kingdom of Hyrule, but the difference between this one and the Shiekah is that these are specifically ranged and damn good at it. My thought is that they would have their normal arrows being Fire Arrows, and their Special Ability arrows being "Light Arrows". They would also, obviously, be good at forest combat.
Phantom Knuckles - The sorcerous powers of Ganondorf have caused many problems for the Hyrule region, many of which seem to be accidental by-products of grander feats of evil. One of these grander feats was the creation of Phantom Knuckles, phantom knights upon frighteningly evil steeds, used to corrupt the Forest Temple and lure its Sage into captivity.
This unit is based upon the Phantom Ganondorf boss from the Ocarina of Time, I view them as heavily armoured knights, perhaps with a limited number of sorcerous ranged attacks but I'm not sure.
The Water Temple:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Maidens of Nayru - The blessing of Nayru's Love is a rare priviledge to those who tend to the Golden Goddesses' Temples, though it is not unknown for great heroes to recieve it as well. The Maidens of Nayru are amongst her most devout followers, who attempt to spread her love amongst the battlefield, to protect the soldiers of Hyrule.
Nayru is a goddess who's magic seems to be about defence rather than offence. Because of this, I feel a unit akin to the Druids of Roman Total War would work nicely. It would be great if they could somehow heal units, or recover their fatigue, but at the very least they could have a special ability which increases the morale of those fighting.
Freezards - The conquering of the Water Temple finally freed some of its more notorious inhabitants from within the deepest reaches, the Freezards. These strange elemental beasts of ice are highly dangerous, and entirely trustworthy. Though it is obvious they will turn on the Gerudo in time, for now the Ice-creatures seem willing to help those who freed them, but for how long will they do so?
When I first thought of this unit, I forgot that the Ice Cavern is near the Zora place and not the Water Temple, so it might not be the most appropriate unit. Anyway, the idea behind this one is to have a "War Dog" style unit, with Gerudo Archers wearing Zora-esque armour and firing a Zora-style bow (with Ice Arrows, of course) whilst their pets are either Freezards or Mini-Freezards. Perhaps the Freezards would be more appropriate if an Ice Temple is used.
Edit: Done the major temples that I could think of. Though not all the ideas are unique or wonderful, hopefully they will be of some use in thinking of special units for this mod. I know some probably suit other forces better (Such as the ReDead for Stalfos), but I must admit, it is hard thinking of these units!
P.S. Alot of these units were thought of after alot of reading of information on the Zelda wikia's.
Last edited by PaulH; February 21, 2011 at 11:05 AM.
I like the idea of a flame throwing unit. I'll note these down and see what can happen down the road. I was also thinking maybe controlling a certain temple allows you to summon their respective Sage from it perhaps. For instance the Forest Temple would allow you to summon Saria, Water Temple would grant you Ruto, etc. It might be interesting if an evil faction captured a temple and summoned a corrupted version of the Sages.
Speaking of bad guys....
Presenting his lordship, the primary antagonist of the Zelda series, the one and only:
Oho! Ganondorf is looking rather funky, though I swear his hair/beard was more of an flamey orange colour than brown.
Regarding the Sage's, though it is a fine idea, it will probably need some tweaking in order to make it as fair as possible. The best way, perhaps, would be for the revealing of the Sage's to happen X amount of turns into the game. Meaning we don't see Saria's fighting Corrupt Saria's and so forth, as it'd be a one time event.
If you do have the Sage's as a unit, what will accompany them into battle? Will it be just the most powerful unit the faction has? A General's Bodyguard unit? Ooor.. will you have a unit specifically to accompany them (For example, some armoured Hylian archers who fire Light Arrows, just like Zelda has done in numerous battles in the series)?
Oho! Ganondorf is looking rather funky, though I swear his hair/beard was more of an flamey orange colour than brown.
Regarding the Sage's, though it is a fine idea, it will probably need some tweaking in order to make it as fair as possible. The best way, perhaps, would be for the revealing of the Sage's to happen X amount of turns into the game. Meaning we don't see Saria's fighting Corrupt Saria's and so forth, as it'd be a one time event.
If you do have the Sage's as a unit, what will accompany them into battle? Will it be just the most powerful unit the faction has? A General's Bodyguard unit? Ooor.. will you have a unit specifically to accompany them (For example, some armoured Hylian archers who fire Light Arrows, just like Zelda has done in numerous battles in the series)?
His hair was more orange in the series, I guess I decided to make it more red to match with the rest of his race though. I wanted to tone down his "I'm obviously the main bad guy at first glance" look (although that's kind of hard to do when you wear a suit of black armor and a helmet that looks like a charred skull ) He always seemed too European and gothic in the series considering his race is based in Middle Eastern culture. These are just my opinions however.
As for the Sages I think I'll probably end up having other soldiers accompany them, or I might go the route of TATW and have them alone like Sauron and the Balrog are in that mod.
Where's his epic muslim beard? And Fleur Sword? If you want him to look more middle eastern give him the bearded look. And I'd make him less sharp. He should be relatively human looking.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Or alternatively make his in game version the dark beast and his strategic map image his human form.
Lol.
Last edited by Col. Tartleton; February 22, 2011 at 05:10 PM.
The Earth is inhabited by billions of idiots.
The search for intelligent life continues...
Though I agree with making him appear more middle eastern, I do think his flaming beard needs to be on the model .
Regarding the Sage situation, I personally feel it would be more suitable for the Sages to have a small escort unit that they are a part of, made up of the elite warriors of the given faction. Reason I say this, is that I feel that having a Balrog or Sauron (in the TATW mod, of course) works due to their utterly immense power and size, but the Sages are all roughly the size of a Human/Hylian which will make identifying their unit hard on the battlefield. Units consisting of only 1 "man" would work perfect for some of the bosses you mentioned might be recruitable.
Is it possible to have the Sage's acting as a kind of General/Heir unit? I say this, as the question about penalties for losing a given Temple got me thinking. If you can give them traits etc. then the obvious one to do would be for a trait to appear which severely reduces the units morale if their Temple is taken by another faction.
Where's his epic muslim beard? And Fleur Sword? If you want him to look more middle eastern give him the bearded look. And I'd make him less sharp. He should be relatively human looking.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Or alternatively make his in game version the dark beast and his strategic map image his human form.
Lol.
Hehe I said his race (being the Gerudo) is based in Middle Eastern culture, not that he's a follower of Islam. (that is an epic funny sample picture though) I really, really dislike how he looks in Twilight princess to be honest. I hated how they made his skin pitch black and made him hairy. It makes him seem too animalistic I guess. I always pictured Ganonforf as an intellectual, not a big brute. Ganon is rather supposed to represent the beast within him. This is partially why I based the design more on OoT without the beard. There was a nice contrast between Ganondorf (human, clean, intellectual) and Ganon (demonic, beastial, wild animal) and in Twilight Princess they blurred the distinction and pretty much just turned Ganon into a "super combat form" rather then a portrayal of what's in Ganondorf's heart.
Originally Posted by PaulH
Though I agree with making him appear more middle eastern, I do think his flaming beard needs to be on the model .
Regarding the Sage situation, I personally feel it would be more suitable for the Sages to have a small escort unit that they are a part of, made up of the elite warriors of the given faction. Reason I say this, is that I feel that having a Balrog or Sauron (in the TATW mod, of course) works due to their utterly immense power and size, but the Sages are all roughly the size of a Human/Hylian which will make identifying their unit hard on the battlefield. Units consisting of only 1 "man" would work perfect for some of the bosses you mentioned might be recruitable.
Is it possible to have the Sage's acting as a kind of General/Heir unit? I say this, as the question about penalties for losing a given Temple got me thinking. If you can give them traits etc. then the obvious one to do would be for a trait to appear which severely reduces the units morale if their Temple is taken by another faction.
Yeah I think the Sages will have awesome bodyguards at this rate. I'd like to actually make them Generals if possible, but don't all generals share the same model per faction? That also would be difficult since there's only one possible audio for each faction. Would be funny to have Nabooru giving a pre battle speech in Ganondorf's voice or vice versa.
Unfortunately my knowledge of Total War modding is severely lacking (though I do want to start learning ^^), so I'm not sure about whether or not you can have special general models like you want. Is it at all possible to have variant appearances for the battlefield model of a family member?
...Nabooru with Ganondorf's voice would be pretty funny. But perhaps not quite as funny as Saria having the Great Deku Tree's voice =D
I'll have a think on guardian units for these Sage's tomorrow, I have one in mind for Saria's and Zelda's guardians, but not the others yet.
i havn't really played Zelda before but after looking at this i think i will give it a try sometime
Might I suggest starting with the N64 games, particularly Ocarina of Time.
In the meantime I managed to finish another model to accompany Ganondorf. His mighty pigness, King Ganon:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
The bad news: I'm not sure if the glow effect will translate into the engine though sadly.
The good news: This is an announcement that the Moblins are a playable faction.
Long time no see and I'm glad to see all the progress thats being made. For the sages I don't have time to read through all those descriptions that PaulH made as its a lot of reading and its late where I am (+rep for that btw). Other than that I've caught up though and I'd jsut like to point out that I believe that generals can ahve their own bodyguards as I'm pretty sure that this was done in TATW (yes that is my main source of info on tw modding).
I don't know if it's applicable or not but for High Elves in that Elrond has spearmen and all other generals are cavalry. I'm not sure if it helps or not but I hope that this means that they can be implements how you would like. However if they can't I think that the Balrog/Sauron-esque root would be a good one. Afterall Sauron is not massive in it, hes only about double the height of men (okay he is a tad bigger but you know what I mean) so the sages could be made a bit bigger and I think that they would still be pretty easily visible on the battlefield, or they soon would be. Anyway who would go into a battle unaware of them?
Also I'm guessing that Ganondorf and the pig guy are going to be infantry? I was just wondering why as cavalry generals do work pretty well in general (although it is good having infantry too, I think a mix is needed). My main reason for wondering this was that Ganon had a spear too. Does this feature in the games? If it does it should be given to him but if not I think that it might be better if he is without it as spears are never seen as really heroic weapons if you know what i mean
Thanks for the +rep ^^, I hope you get a chance to read through them. Regarding Ganondorf, (not Mr. Pigface Ganon), I believe that he should be mounted on a dark steed. Though I cannot remember if he was on a Steed in many games, I know that the boss Phantom Ganondorf was in Ocarina of Time and that Ganondorf was shown to be riding a horse in a flashback in Twilight Princess. He looked rather awesome in both instances.
It's good news to hear of Moblins as a playable faction, I'm looking forward to teaching them the power of the Kokiri! All I need now is to hear that the Twili are a faction, and I'll be very happy =D
Concerning the Moblins, will they include the Bulblins from Twilight Princess in their forces? And if so, are you going to make use of the Bullbo (Giant Boar) mounts they have? If so, it -may- work to rip the skeleton and animations of the pig unit from Roman Total War in order to make the Bullbo.
Edit: Also, do you have a unit list regarding the Moblins? I'd glad give a hand with them if you need it.
Edit 2: A quick bit of research on Moblins brought up the fact there are numerous varieties of them:
Miniblins - The small devil-like foes from Windwaker, they'd make a real good "Peasant" unit, perfect for throwing hundreds of the buggers at a wall to get the siege engines up and running.
Bulblins - The Goblins from Twilight Princess who seem to spend alot of time riding on Bullbo's.
Bokoblins - From numerous games, they seem abit more gangly than the others.
Moblins - Very pig-face "Goblins" which seem to be the toughest of the normal kinds.
Big Blin - An Ogre-esque "Goblin" from Spirit Tracks, would be awesome shock troops I reckon. The Hyrule version of an LotR Cave Troll =D
Last edited by PaulH; February 23, 2011 at 03:54 PM.
Also I'm guessing that Ganondorf and the pig guy are going to be infantry? I was just wondering why as cavalry generals do work pretty well in general (although it is good having infantry too, I think a mix is needed). My main reason for wondering this was that Ganon had a spear too. Does this feature in the games? If it does it should be given to him but if not I think that it might be better if he is without it as spears are never seen as really heroic weapons if you know what i mean
Originally Posted by PaulH
Regarding Ganondorf, (not Mr. Pigface Ganon), I believe that he should be mounted on a dark steed.
Ganondorf will hopefully have both infantry and mounted versions if I can get multiple generals with multiple voices working. Ganon will just be a single uber unit since he's a massive creature that should be pretty easy to spot on the battlefield. Ganon's preferred weapon of choice is a trident so I figured I'd stick with it (I also think the trident is just an awesome looking weapon in general). Ganondorf also had a trident in his arsenal until he managed to obtain the Triforce of Power. At that point he ditched physical weapons for absurd magic attacks that I don't think would translate well into M2.
Originally Posted by PaulH
Concerning the Moblins, will they include the Bulblins from Twilight Princess in their forces?
Edit: Also, do you have a unit list regarding the Moblins? I'd glad give a hand with them if you need it.
As far as the Moblins go their factions will have all the "blin" creatures from the series on their side, including the boars. I sadly don't have Rome Total War, but if someone is willing to get the skeleton and all the animations for it to put into M2 (I'm confident it's probably been done already), then that would be awesome. I updated the first post with Moblin units thus far.
Maybe for the boar mount things there could be a smaller pig/war-dog esque unit and maybe a cavalry one too? like the warg unit except maybe smaller if possible or whatever fits as they seem like a faction that would be hard to add cavalry to.
I've never modded Total War before, though I'm readying myself to learn how to. I do have Roman Total War, so when I eventually start, I'll pass you across the stuff for the Pig unit. With any luck though, someone else will kindly do it before I do ^^.
Regarding the Moblins, you mention a Bigblin Ram unit, but will you have a normal Bigblin unit as well?
Maybe for the boar mount things there could be a smaller pig/war-dog esque unit and maybe a cavalry one too? like the warg unit except maybe smaller if possible or whatever fits as they seem like a faction that would be hard to add cavalry to.
I imagine the Moblins might just unleash a bunch of unmanned boars into a fight, it seems like a wild brutal tactic they'd stoop to.
Originally Posted by PaulH
Regarding the Moblins, you mention a Bigblin Ram unit, but will you have a normal Bigblin unit as well?
The Bigblin will be the normal unit, he's so big though that he can double as a ram with his huge club, at least if it's possible to have a normal unit act as a ram...
Some people have asked me what I'll be doing for music in this mod. I've had a friend that's made music in my other mods and has jumped on board to do the music for this one:
Re: Hyrule - Total War anyone?
Originally Posted by UndyingNephalim
I'll probably make those particular units with each faction that can produce them. At this point I figure I'm going to do two factions at a time with all their units until they are done (in this case I'm just doing Gerudo and Hylians. After they are done I'll be moving unto Gorons and Zora, etc). So yes, I'll be working on those models before I get to a campaign.
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) He always seemed too European and gothic in the series considering his race is based in Middle Eastern culture. These are just my opinions however. 
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