Consulate of Septimus and Poplicola - 540AVC

[AspisPhalanx90]

There is no motion that has been proposed or passed to grant citizenship to anyone, other then the ban on Capua and Crotona's abilities to obtain Roman citizenship for their rebellions. However, it seems there has been a discrepancy. All allied cities in Italia were to be placed under direct Roman control. Either this has never happened for Arminium, or someone there has taken it upon themselves to rule the city without the consent of this Senate.

We have two options Senators, either we allow this citizenship to pass unhindered, or we dont. The decision is yours, shall this issue be put to vote, or left in the hands of the Praetor?

[Maiar93]

I was thinking about an possibility. Let us send a tribune to calm the citizens down! Has this not worked once before when a tribune calmed the people of rebellious Corvinium? But granting citizenship to themselves with no clear reason is an insult against the roman law. If we grant them citizenship, then the other towns will soon be asking for them too. If we let it pass unhindered, Ariminum may revolt due to the joy of success. What made them rebellious against rome? A tribune, as a plebeian, could convince them to be loyal to Rome and her Senate.

[chaplain118]

Yes, a tribune, sent to calm the masses. But we have not seen that from our tribunes have we? No, we saw them abuse their powers, rouse the populace into riots, and encouraged the people to engage in brutality beyond comprehension, committing sacrilege beyond what is acceptable. Tribunes, Rome needs not send Tribunes to a region inhabited by non-citizens, Rome needs no tribunes.

[Maiar93]

I must disagree with you , senator. Rome does need tribunes. As you know, tribunes exist to protect the plebeians and to hold their rights in high esteem. But the things i hear you say from our tribunes is depressing. If they really are such corrupted men, we must change them. Rome cannot afford to have tribunes who rouse the populace into riots!

[AspisPhalanx90]

What Senator Rutulus says is true however. This very Curia you stand in was destroyed because a tribune fancied himself a King. A tribune should not be sent. Someone with respect among the classes should be sent. A simple change in governors and direct Roman authority should suffice for now...

[DedlySerious]

Senators would you throw away a basket of apples simply because a few are rotten. No you remove those that are rotten and cast them aside. the same could be said of the tribunes that a few have spoiled a great institution.
As to the matter at hand why would we not offer citizenship i for one would welcome the influx to our manpower this would bring and the more direct control of the region.
i would stand by a vote as i believe our praetor is biased in the extreme

[Maiar93]

I agree, Gaius. I disagreed in one part only: we should not cancel the office of a tribune.

[chaplain118]

The tribunate nearly destroyed our Republic, and the gods demand the office be forever cast into the dark flames of infamy that had burned with our fair City. To argue on behalf of a tribunate would be to argue for the death of our Republic. In short, to argue for the Tribunate is an act of treason!

[Maiar93]

My fellow senator! I don't know of your accuses of treason. Why should we cancel the office of tribune? It would only cause further unrest in Rome, and furthermore, cause unrest within our allies. Scathe the hollow and bad tribunes, and get better to their place.

[chaplain118]

Rome has seen unrest at the hands of her Tribunes. The chaos that Gracchus has left upon our city will never fade, the Tribunate will forever be known as an office of power usurpers and demagogues who would push the people to heinous evils. As for our allies, they care not for our tribunes as the Tribune's authority only extends to the Pomoerium, which even then is still behind our City walls. I will say it again.

Rome needs no tribunes

[War lord]

The tribunate nearly destroyed our Republic, and the gods demand the office be forever cast into the dark flames of infamy that had burned with our fair City. To argue on behalf of a tribunate would be to argue for the death of our Republic. In short, to argue for the Tribunate is an act of treason!

NO!One man nearly destroyed this city,and he was able to do it because the assembly refused,and continues to refuse to appoint a second tribune to balance the powers of the first.

I think that the Senate should appoint a second tribune with the power to veto the first,and who is immune to punishment for harming the first Tribune.So he can stab the bastard if he gets out of hand.

[Maiar93]

We do not need a second tribune. If our tribunes try to revolt, we will simply execute him for treason. I'd suggest we lower the rights of a tribune: their ability to veto is cancelled, and their status made touchable again so we can give them the punishments they need.

We will start with lowering the rights of the tribunes; and if they prove their worth, we will return their original rights. Cancelling the whole office, i think, is too radical a decision.. Flavius sits down, with a slight frustratement in his eyes - why should we need to cancel the whole office? Who would protect the plebeians? "If things go this way, soon we have proscription lists..", Flavius thought, and a creep crawled through his lungs.

[Crozimodo]

It is dangerous to argue against the sacrosanct personage of a Tribune Licinius, it is there to show the immortal spirit of the people, to harm their prestige is an affront to the Republic. I understand the concerns voiced by those who opposed to the Tribunate but I must agree with those who defend it, I am here to protect the people not lead them in uproar against those here whom I not only consider my fellow Romans but many of you my friends. Surely it is not just the Tribune that you Senators believe has the ability to rouse the "mob" to arms? No Senators, any man who can whisper sweet words to the people can sway them for they are fickle and for those in complete poverty who can blame them? It is the role of the Tribune to protect them from these sweet whispers, assist them in things that are possible, not offer them outlandish promises but attempt to guarantee them a better future through progress and justice.

As to sending myself to speak with those of Arminium I worry it will send the wrong message to others and establish a precedent. Further it is impromptu for a Tribune to leave Rome during his term what good am I away from her? I should be here with our citizens at the heart of our Republic. I would beg of you to deliberate long and hard on this subject for it will be scrutinized by others and we must remain strong.

[Nota']

I completly agree with our Tribune.

OOC: Sorry for the one liner, just wanted to support Crozi, but I couldn't think of anything more to say lol.

[War lord]

Senator Corvenus if you remove the Tribunes veto and their sacrosanctity then you might as well remove the office,what I'm proposing is a second Tribune who's only power is to prevent the abuse of the power.

Have you forgotten Cassius that your position only exists as a legal technicality?The truth is that the people are rather against the idea of any sort of Tribunate.Your power of veto exists as a side effect of your inviolability and your inviolability exists only if the plebs are willing to seek vengeance for your injury.Since the Plebs have no interest in protecting you,Your power of Veto is rendered useless.You are not a magistrate,and you are not in a position to enforce your authority.

If the other Senators wish they can safely ignore you.

[Crozimodo]

I would like to think that the foundations of this Republic have not crumbled so far that a position such as Tribune can be swept aside and ignored like any beggar off the streets. There are men in this hall that still honour and appreciate the Tribunate and see its purpose and not the ways they can warp the office into their own tools, I believe that there are men in this hall like me. Much like in the streets, there are still those that recognise me as a representative and protector of their interests and I will not leave them at the side of the road due to calls that the position is null because you say so. A motion has not been called to remove the position of Tribune, the office was present in the elections was it not?

You indeed ran for it yourself?

You believe it is without significance, without power nor influence to make any change. Then why run?

Indeed, if you feel this way about the Tribunate how was it in the peoples best interest for you to run for it? If you feel you cannot protect the people in this position, where such is its prime objective, it is an insult that you ran Licinius when your talents would be so better used in a position to truly help them. I would not expect to see you wish to touch this "pathetic" office again, no doubt it would be a waste of you Senator. I for one believe in this office and this is why I stand before you today and call myself a Tribune of the people of Rome.

[War lord]

I'm not as much of a sad deluded fool as you are.

Fellow Senators of the glorious Roman Republic it is clear to me that this self-proclaimed "representative of the people" (Many of which wish him dead)is a danger to future peace and stability in the Roman republic,I propose that we once and for all end this dangerous threat to us and to the people by removing the office of Tribune and placing Titus Cassius Gerges under arrest pending a future trial for Treason.

[Crozimodo]

Then I shall await the decision of the Senate and the Praetor, I trust that they will be fair in their judgement and will brush aside these ludicrous claims. Your opinion as ever is greatly cherished Licinius.

Gerges sat down suppressing a smile, surprised at how far Licinius had been drawn by his comments, he wondered if he was unaware of the implications of his actions.

[AspisPhalanx90]

I reject this proposal! Senator Gerges has done no wrong to this republic. You accuse him of treason? What evidence do you bring against the man? Simply speaking, and at that rather rationally? Debate the office senators, but do NOT bring the man to trial regarding treason. Has the crime of treason become something we just throw around like women in the brothels? No Senators, this is outrages, there shall be no trial for treason without valid evidence. We shall not waste the Praetors time on such matters.

A representative shall be sent to Arminum to assess what is going on there.

Septimus stood, angry at what has become of the senate....about to depart for war and here we are throwing around claims of treason....

[Crozimodo]

Gerges nodded his thanks to the Consul no more words had to be said on the matter from his mouth as far as he was concerned. If something was worth defending more than one would rally to its defence.