View Poll Results: Silven Elves.Vs High Elves

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  • High Elves

    92 60.93%
  • Silven Elves

    59 39.07%
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Thread: High Elves Vs. Silvan Elves.

  1. #121

    Default Re: High Elves Vs. Silvan Elves.

    Hello Mcvee,

    Some fair points.

    I do not now much about the Lore. So I cannot really participate in it.......

    But I like to read stuff like this. I do not see it the way that the people state it as facts. They are just really enhousiastic (tjeees what a word, spelling) about the Lore and while reading the books etc have come up with a certain vision. They share this vision and are willing to give arguments why they feel about it in that way. They know that it are not facts. At least I think.

    Overall, I think it is great that people are able to like and care about something this much and can share thoughts about it. If it al were facts, there would not be much to discuss about.

    Please, all respect for you and your opinion, but statements like " It's pointless arguments like these that make you out to be ignorant fools with closed minds", is this also not a bit stated as a fact, which in my mind is an opinion which would be a circle to the sentance itself? Not arguing about it would in the end lead more to people being "ignorant". Sharing opinions keep people open to other visions and let other people create their own. At least, that is my opinion.

    Anyway, welcome to the forum and thank you for sharing your opinion.

    Ariaci

  2. #122

    Default Re: High Elves Vs. Silvan Elves.

    In game I guess I can only say which one is on the hilltop, I pick them.

    In the lore, only one time do we have a specific instance of battle between the Sindar and the Noldor. The 2nd sack of Doriath is characterized as a bloody, very sad affair. 3 sons of Feanor perish in the battle, the Noldor win but the Sindar are no pushovers, in their defense of Menegroth. Of course we have no numbers or tactics given to us that I am aware of, only that it happened and the outcome.

    @Mcvee welcome as well

    Some things in the Lore are pretty much set in stone, examples are the absolute greatness of Feanor, Morgoth will return, Elves are fading in the mortal physical realm. Some things Tolkien could not make his mind up about, the Origin of Orcs, the exact time the Sun and Moon came to be, the History of Galadriel just to name a few.

    Many things change over the course of 50 odd years of writing, the stature of Elves relative to men, the numbers of Balrogs, the Languages themselves as they grow and become ever more elaborate and useful based on Linguistic rules.

    The arguments well they are going to happen, given the amount of material at hand(20+books of it by Tolkien or edited by his son and not always consistent I might add)civility I guess would be the goal.
    Last edited by muller227; February 09, 2011 at 11:19 PM.

  3. #123

    Default Re: High Elves. Vs. Silven Elves

    [QUOTE=Mithrandir the White;8830765]High Elves (Noldor) are much superior to others (Sindar, Avari, Teleri, etc.) as warriors, however by the Third Age there were very few of them left in Middle-Earth.

    Rivendell is probably the last predominantly Noldor settlement, the Havens being mostly Teleri.

    Both Elrond and Galardriel are Noldor (Elrond is part human), however Galadriel's people are err Sindar mostly? Not Noldor anyway.[/QUOTE
    elrond and his brother ar part human but they were forced to decide will they be a human or elves and he (elrond)decide to stay in imaldris as elf and his brother stay as human-so elrond is one of elves no question

  4. #124

    Default Re: High Elves Vs. Silvan Elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimli10 View Post
    Whats your ideas, of which Elven Kingdom is the most elite?
    high elves are strongest in this game so..

  5. #125

    Default Re: High Elves Vs. Silvan Elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by thespaniard View Post
    definitly the silvan they have better melee infantry and better armoured archers/melee troops and they got ents
    high elves got ents also and better infantry and same archers and stronger calvary...hero bodyguard rape anything???

  6. #126
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: High Elves Vs. Silvan Elves.

    Wasn't it the Silvan Elves that got the ents?

  7. #127

    Default Re: High Elves Vs. Silvan Elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Holy Pilgrim View Post
    Wasn't it the Silvan Elves that got the ents?
    u can recruit them as high elves after first barrack event at fangorn-u just had to have general over there and 2500 gold

  8. #128

    Default Re: High Elves Vs. Silvan Elves.

    Silven elves have the best archers really in the game but not very good infantry and no cavelry. High elves still maintain elite archers but they also have infantry and cavalry capable enough not to leave a gaping hole in their army.

  9. #129
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: High Elves Vs. Silvan Elves.

    There's no real differences in attack stats (with charge bonuses counted in; the second number in that line) or armour values compairing SE's and HE's heavy 3d tier spearmen and swordsmen.
    The difference is perhaps that HE have some other units as Lindon longspearmen or the Smiths but those are very rare.
    Spearmen:
    type Silvan Heavy Spearmen
    dictionary Silvan_Heavy_Spearmen ; Silvan Heavy Spearmen
    (...)
    stat_pri 10, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 0, 1 = 15 attack
    stat_pri_attr light_spear, spear_bonus_4
    (...)
    stat_pri_armour 8, 6, 6, metal =20 defence

    type Elf Spear
    dictionary Elf_Spear ; Eldarinwë Spearmen
    (...)
    stat_pri 10, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 0, 1 =15 attack
    stat_pri_attr light_spear, spear_bonus_4
    (...)
    stat_pri_armour 9, 6, 6, metal =21 defence
    Swordsmen:
    type Silvan Heavy Swordsmen
    dictionary Silvan_Heavy_Swordsmen ; Silvan Heavy Swordsmen
    (...)
    stat_pri 14, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, slashing, sword, 0, 1 =22 attack
    (...)
    stat_pri_armour 8, 7, 0, metal =15 defence

    type Elf Sword
    dictionary Elf_Sword ; Eldarinwë Swordsmen
    (...)
    stat_pri 15, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, slashing, sword, 0, 1 =23 attack
    (...)
    stat_pri_armour 9, 7, 0, metal =16 defence
    And looking at the rest of them I can't say the difference is much in favour for HE either
    Homeguard Warriors
    A 10; 2 = 12
    D = 2, 7 = 9

    Sword Quendi
    A 10; 4 = 14
    D = 4; 6; 4 = 14

    Lindon Longspears
    A 9; 5 = 14 (+ 4 spear bonus)
    D 4; 8 = 12

    Smiths of Eregion
    A 7; 5 = 13
    D 12; 5; 6 = 23

    Silvan Spearmen
    A 9; 4 = 13 (+ 4 spear bonus)
    D 3; 6; 4 = 13

    Forest Wardens
    A 12; 4 = 16
    D 3; 5; 5 = 13

    Silvan Axemen
    A 9; 6 = 15 (+ap)
    D 7; 7 = 14
    Silvans 1st tier unit the spearman may be a reason SE is considered weaker, since spearmen have a certain penalty against other infantry, whom they face a lot after all, battling OotMM and Mordor more than Rhun at such stages where the spearmen are most commonly used.
    Last edited by Ngugi; November 29, 2012 at 07:35 PM.

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  10. #130

    Default Re: High Elves Vs. Silvan Elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackfalcon View Post
    Silven elves have the best archers really in the game but not very good infantry and no cavelry. High elves still maintain elite archers but they also have infantry and cavalry capable enough not to leave a gaping hole in their army.
    Cavalry sure. Infantry, disagree.

    For infantry, High elves are held back by having to rely on tier 1 Sword Quendi and AoR units from the far west until you can deploy your Tier 4 elite units. Silvan elves get a good Spear unit, Sword unit (better than Sword Quendi), and Armor piercing Axe unit - none of which are AoR, before the tier 4 elite units. And the High Elf and Silvan Elf tier 4 units are nearly identical aside from looks.

    Silvan Elves do face tougher opposition IMHO, so maybe that makes their units seem a bit worse by comparison? In the early - mid game Silvans are usually fighting some combination of OotMM, Mordor, Mirkwood Spiders, and Rhun where High Elves tend to fight Isengard and OotMM.

  11. #131

    Default Re: High Elves Vs. Silvan Elves.

    I may be a little biased but the noldor are the superior of the two. Btw I had a campaign where I led a single stack of all Eldar troops under Glorfindel and sacked Lorien. Twas satisfying, though it was brutal. close to 500 Noldor died compared to about 1800 silvans and sindar. 4th Kinslaying!

  12. #132

    Default Re: High Elves Vs. Silvan Elves.

    I play with RC via MOS which I think does pretty well in this regard. HE upper infantry is very tough though limited in number. Their Cavalry makes up for the lower infantry weaknesses. ARchers all inall are pretty damn equal. All this is pretty lore accurate

    High Elves are not a realm of Noldor from Aman. They are more acurately described as Noldorized (Sindar, Laiquendi and possibly Tatyar), While Silvan are (Sindarized silvan and Nelyar), Sindarized meaning Sindar who are back to basic types like Orophin (is that right) Thranduils father. A Sindar noble who rejected Noldorization of his kin and departed eastward.

    The Noldor and Sindar seem from the lore too both be tough infantry, Noldor are greater but the Sindar come close(note the first battle of Beleriand). Laiquendi seem more bow oriented and in that way similar to the Silvan and by assumption the Nelyar Avari. The Tatyar Avari are described as similar too the Noldor in physique and attitude(not a compliment), and were more westerly and since I think Gil-Galad was a fairly decent king he probably managed to bring them into his realm, though taht is my personal opinion. It would explain the growth of his power.

    The game gives us more lower level units for the Silvan and good quality units at that, this I think reflects the higher base population, Lower level High Elves would be drawn from this same base, but likely be more limited. Upper tier units from the west are generally superior and more numerous as long as you can handle the aor's.

    In playing them I approach them differently, I rely on the lower tier units of the Silvan Elves throughout the game, while I generally go for higher tier the with High Elves before I get real aggressive.
    Last edited by muller227; November 29, 2012 at 10:19 PM.

  13. #133
    chriskourou's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: High Elves Vs. Silvan Elves.

    High Elves are awesome! I prefer playing with Silvan Elves though

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