Traits available?

[a-woowie.doowie]

Hi, I've played XGM for a while now again. And I've started to wonder about traits and retinues. All I wonder is; Is there an "easy or quick" way to see all the traits and retinues in this mod. If not, is it possible for someone to post it here? Would appreciate it.

And another question; as you of course know, the "temple-building-system" is made up so that any faction can continue building on any other factions temple. What I wonder now is; For example the romans have atleast 3 similiar temples, Janus, Jupiter and Saturn(law and hapiness bonuses) with the Jupiter one being standard. But since you can builid the other temples through conquered settlements, does these alternate temples of law and hapiness give diffrent retinues?? I mean, I think that the Jupiter temple gives "priest of jupiter, 1+ command, influence and management" - if I remember correctly.


And my final question; how do I give reputation? I don't quite understand the forum help guide, since I don't know where I can find this "give reputation button" other than on my own comments(the green cross). Sorry for the long post, any help is appreciated!

Thank you in advance!

[Celestial Oblivion]

Hi, I've played XGM for a while now again. And I've started to wonder about traits and retinues. All I wonder is; Is there an "easy or quick" way to see all the traits and retinues in this mod. If not, is it possible for someone to post it here? Would appreciate it.

And another question; as you of course know, the "temple-building-system" is made up so that any faction can continue building on any other factions temple. What I wonder now is; For example the romans have atleast 3 similiar temples, Janus, Jupiter and Saturn(law and hapiness bonuses) with the Jupiter one being standard. But since you can builid the other temples through conquered settlements, does these alternate temples of law and hapiness give diffrent retinues?? I mean, I think that the Jupiter temple gives "priest of jupiter, 1+ command, influence and management" - if I remember correctly.


And my final question; how do I give reputation? I don't quite understand the forum help guide, since I don't know where I can find this "give reputation button" other than on my own comments(the green cross). Sorry for the long post, any help is appreciated!

Thank you in advance!

Look at the export_trait and export_ancillary files in the xgm data folder for the lists of available traits and things like how you get them. And yes, Janus, Jupiter and Saturn all have different priests with different effects (while those temples give the same effect in XGM, the game considers them completely different buildings. For example Janus is the temple of governors, and his priest will be the same as any other culture's temple of governors just with a different name).

Don't know about the reputation though.

[DimeBagHo]

a-woowie.doowie: You probably just need to make a few more posts before the rep button starts showing up on other people's posts. It will be a green + button under the avatar.

[a-woowie.doowie]

Thank you both for your help, and I'll check those files out.

[Vae victis]

It has been a few years since I have played RTW. Are traits in this game as bad as in MTW2? Can you build good governors by keeping them in cities or do they develop bad vices?

[Celestial Oblivion]

It has been a few years since I have played RTW. Are traits in this game as bad as in MTW2? Can you build good governors by keeping them in cities or do they develop bad vices?

Well this mod has some culture traits mod in it so its almost completely different, but it depends on the culture. I've noticed as the Carthaginians I can get good governors by just leaving them in cities, preferably with academic and trading buildings. With the barbarians, you need to have your generals fight while they're young and once they have some experience you can let them be governors. So cities can give both virtues and vices.

[Vae victis]

Thanks I guess I might try to develop my governors traits in this game. In MTW2 bad traits are unavoidable whether you leave generals in settlements or not. It was extremely frustrating to build up a generals stars only to have them taken away by bad traits.

[Celestial Oblivion]

Thanks I guess I might try to develop my governors traits in this game. In MTW2 bad traits are unavoidable whether you leave generals in settlements or not. It was extremely frustrating to build up a generals stars only to have them taken away by bad traits.

Another thing to watch out for is ironically to get too much money. While I can think of only one trait that will reduce command in this group, once you start to have over 50,000 denarii traits like corruption and expensive tastes start to become more common, peaking at around 300,000 denarii I think. Again most of these effect income and/or public order, which you probably won't have to worry about with that much cash, but they can really hurt an otherwise fantastic governor.

[Vae victis]

it makes sense for the game to try and halt player expansion once they have so much territory or so much money. It kind of adds to the challenge of the player steamrolling the rest of the map.

Traits are kind of a cool feature but I think that the devs could do a lot more with them to add to the RPG experience of developing characters. I am glad that they improved them for ETW and I hope that they are even more polished for STW2.

[a-woowie.doowie]

once you start to have over 50,000 denarii traits like corruption and expensive tastes start to become more common, peaking at around 300,000 denarii I think. Again most of these effect income and/or public order, which you probably won't have to worry about with that much cash, but they can really hurt an otherwise fantastic governor.

So that's why the corruption traits are so common for me. I've always wondered while looking at others screen-shots off their empires, "why are their economy always so low"(most have around 100 000 denarii available) but I almost always have about a million or so given the fact that I always play factions close to either the Aegean sea or the coastline from Egypt to Turkey(the two most economically prosperous areas in terms of trade), hence the economic-boom.

Haha after a while I even began to think I was above the average campaign management handling(since I always have the "manage all settlements"-box filled out). I've never taken the time to understand which traits have their origin in which game-action, except for the obvious ones that is.

If someone could/want to, I would be really appreciative if someone could post the requirements for diffrent trait-families. For example; "good attacker; and X-number of attacking victories needed for the diffrent levels?"

(This was just an example and I've no idea what the real messurement for the good attacker trait is)

Thanks in advance!

[Celestial Oblivion]

So that's why the corruption traits are so common for me. I've always wondered while looking at others screen-shots off their empires, "why are their economy always so low"(most have around 100 000 denarii available) but I almost always have about a million or so given the fact that I always play factions close to either the Aegean sea or the coastline from Egypt to Turkey(the two most economically prosperous areas in terms of trade), hence the economic-boom.

Haha after a while I even began to think I was above the average campaign management handling(since I always have the "manage all settlements"-box filled out). I've never taken the time to understand which traits have their origin in which game-action, except for the obvious ones that is.

If someone could/want to, I would be really appreciative if someone could post the requirements for diffrent trait-families. For example; "good attacker; and X-number of attacking victories needed for the diffrent levels?"

(This was just an example and I've no idea what the real messurement for the good attacker trait is)

Thanks in advance!

Unfortunately that would be an extremely difficult task. While all the information is in export_descr_character_traits.txt (the second half of it, the first half defines what the traits actually do) in the xgm data folder, it is both an extremely big file and it is not organized in the manner you are requesting. Rather than listing by each trait and how it can be earned, its vice versa I.e. listed by certain events (AKA after winning battle) and then defines all the traits that can be acquired from that event. For example here is the series of triggers that makes a Ludas Magnas work.

Trigger ludus_magnus_01
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition EndedInSettlement
          and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
          and SettlementBuildingExists = ludus_magnus

    Affects LogisticalSkill  1  Chance  3 
    Affects Pragmatic  1  Chance  3 
    Affects RhetoricSkill  1  Chance  3 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger ludus_magnus_02
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition EndedInSettlement
          and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
          and SettlementBuildingExists = ludus_magnus
          and not Attribute Management > 5

    Affects StrategicSkill  1  Chance  3 
    Affects TacticalSkill  1  Chance  3 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger ludus_magnus_03
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition EndedInSettlement
          and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
          and SettlementBuildingExists = ludus_magnus
          and SettlementBuildingExists = curia
          and SettlementBuildingExists >= dockyard

    Affects GoodTrader  1  Chance  3 
    Affects Negotiation  1  Chance  3 
    Affects Xenophilia  1  Chance  3 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger ludus_magnus_04
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition EndedInSettlement
          and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
          and SettlementBuildingExists = ludus_magnus
          and SettlementBuildingExists = curia
          and SettlementBuildingExists >= dockyard
          and not Attribute Command > 5

    Affects EconomicsSkill  1  Chance  3 
    Affects MathematicsSkill  1  Chance  3 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger ludus_magnus_05
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition EndedInSettlement
          and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
          and SettlementBuildingExists = ludus_magnus
          and SettlementBuildingExists = curia
          and SettlementBuildingExists >= frankincense_rd

    Affects GoodTrader  1  Chance  3 
    Affects Negotiation  1  Chance  3 
    Affects Xenophilia  1  Chance  3 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger ludus_magnus_06
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition EndedInSettlement
          and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
          and SettlementBuildingExists = ludus_magnus
          and SettlementBuildingExists = curia
          and SettlementBuildingExists >= frankincense_rd
          and not Attribute Command > 5

    Affects EconomicsSkill  1  Chance  3 
    Affects MathematicsSkill  1  Chance  3

Further I would say one third to half of these triggers are for the ethnic traits mod. For example a typical ethnic trait like BeingRoman has at least 40 different triggers plus things like marriages and adoption and things. Utter genius from a modding perspective, but it makes reading this file very confusing.

So basically if you are curious about all the ways you can get the GoodAttacker line, just open it up and search for it. After you get past the section where its defined, you'll find the information you seek.

[a-woowie.doowie]

Wow, you're absolutley right, I can't understand anything there. Though I only chose good attacker as an example, I'm way more interested in the education and "non-battle" traits. For example I want to know why one of my characters had "studies Plationism" in Alexandria at the age of 20, then at the stunning age of 21 he already had "mastered Plationism", while another family member at the exact same age didn't get his mastery of Plationism untill he was at the age of 39. These are the things I would like to know. I mean most of my characters doesn't get their masteries untill they're 35+, so what I'd love to find out is why this character who even has the "illiterate"-trait(not sure about how it is spelled) that gives -1 management and it even says in the tooltip something close to this; Education is nothing this man need - or something. I thought that when I saw that, this character would be useless as a city-administrator and he didn't have any decent commander traits, which led me to put him in Alexandria with the rest of my "future administrators". Samething goes with the trait "blind from birth" in my Roman campaign(current one is Ptolemaic), I've never seen such a negative trait and yet he became one of my best governors even though I "more or less" threw him away(I put him in Croton which only had an academy at the time, while other cities had Scriptoriums or in Rome - Ludus Magna(special one)) I'm so curious to how the academy can sometimes give better traits than a ludus magna. It's very little I truly know about this game in general even if I consider myself a decent player(when it comes to campaign) and there is so much I'd love to know.

OH GOD that became a long comment! Sorry!

Anyways thank you, if I had figured out how to give reputation, I would have.

[Celestial Oblivion]

Okay, well for that you have to know how the trait system works. I'll do this broadly at first and if you still need something more specific or explained better just ask.

First of all here is the code for the Greek Platonism trait line (Greek faction philosophy traits are different from the others actually).

Trait gPlaton
    Characters family
    ExcludeCultures barbarian, roman, eastern, carthaginian
    NoGoingBackLevel  1 
    AntiTraits Iliterated, DarkPath, Ignorance, Anger, gStoic, gEpicurean, gCynic, gSkeptic, gPeripatetic, Pythagorean, gPythagorean

    Level gStudyPlaton
        Description gStudyPlaton_desc
        EffectsDescription gStudyPlaton_effects_desc
        Threshold  1 

        Effect Influence  1
        Effect Law  1 

    Level gMasterPlaton
        Description gMasterPlaton_desc
        EffectsDescription gMasterPlaton_effects_desc
        Threshold  2 

        Effect Influence  1
        Effect Law  2 

    Level gPlaton
        Description gPlaton_desc
        EffectsDescription gPlaton_effects_desc
        Threshold  6 

        Effect Influence  2
        Effect Law  3 
        Effect Loyalty  1

Just focus on the lines I've bolded.

Excluded cultures does just as it sounds, factions of those cultures cannot get this trait line. A Barbarian can never get this trait no matter how long he stays in Athens at Plato's Academy.

NoGoingBackLevel is the point at which the character will not lose the trait. For this particular trait its 1, so once a character has started studying Platonism he will never lose the trait.

Antitraits are traits that are not compatible with this trait. If a trait has not crossed the "NoGoingBackLevel", one level of that trait will be subtracted if the character would earn an antitrait. This is how characters can lose traits (Losing "Social Drinker" if that character would have earned a "Sobriety" trait for example). If you do go over the NoGoingBackLevel, you can never acquire an antitrait. You shouldn't have gotten a character with Illiterate and Studies Platonism at the same time from this, but its possible he earned a point in a philosophy trait that got rid of his illiterate trait and enabled him to learn Studies Platonism.

Threshold defines the internal level of the trait for you to acquire a particular trait level. For this trait a threshold of 1 is need for you to acquire Studies Platonism, but to max out this trait tree you need a threshold of 6. In other words, your character has at least a gPlaton threshold of 2 (as he has Mastered Platonism) but not yet 6 (otherwise he'd be a Platon).

The code I posted for the Ludas Magnas is what determines how you actually earn and advance these traits. For the academies, basically keeping a character in a city for a turn gives that character a chance to learn any of a series of traits for example...

Affects LogisticalSkill 1 Chance 3

means any character waiting a turn in that settlement has a 3% chance to increase his threshold in the LogisticalSkill tree by 1. If that threshold gets high enough to earn him a better version of the trait, you'll see that in the next turn.

[a-woowie.doowie]

Wow! Very well explained there! I really need to get the "add reputation button"

But(not that it should matter) I were just playing my campaign the man with the "iliterated-trait", also has the "mastered stoicism-trait"(the diffrence is that he didn't have platonism like I've previously explained). But if the iliterated-trait is an anti-trait to stoicism, is it some sort of bug I've experienced? Was it maybe therefor he gained the mastered form one turn after he gained the studies form?

And one more thing . About your previous post, where u posted "the way of the ludus magna", when it says; Trigger ludus_magnus_01 and Trigger ludus_magnus_02 and so on, does the "0#" stand for turns spent in the settlement in a row or are they just alternated trait-availibilities?

Once again, thank you for explaining this to me, I think I'm starting to get the hang of this simplified version .

[Celestial Oblivion]

Wow! Very well explained there! I really need to get the "add reputation button"

But(not that it should matter) I were just playing my campaign the man with the "iliterated-trait", also has the "mastered stoicism-trait"(the diffrence is that he didn't have platonism like I've previously explained). But if the iliterated-trait is an anti-trait to stoicism, is it some sort of bug I've experienced? Was it maybe therefor he gained the mastered form one turn after he gained the studies form?

And one more thing . About your previous post, where u posted "the way of the ludus magna", when it says; Trigger ludus_magnus_01 and Trigger ludus_magnus_02 and so on, does the "0#" stand for turns spent in the settlement in a row or are they just alternated trait-availibilities?

Once again, thank you for explaining this to me, I think I'm starting to get the hang of this simplified version .

'
I think you get the add reputation button after 30 posts. It only showed up for me when I got "promoted" to a rifleman.

I took a look at Greek Stoicism, and Illiterate is not an antitrait (the stoics weren't particularly big book people, so I suppose it makes sense). That's actually a pretty awesome trait because as a philosophy trait you can't unlearn it and it prevents your character from getting these (mostly bad) traits.

AntiTraits Fire, Ignorance, Haoma, Anger, Girls, Arse, Coward, Lewd, Drink, Gambling, Unjust, gEpicurean, gCynic, gSkeptic, gPlaton, gPeripatetic, gPythagorean

As for the Ludas Magna, no the trigger numbers are just to differentiate the different ones. The condition for the schools are just to start and end a turn in the settlement. The reason it has more than one is that their are other conditions that go with it (I.e. governors with high management tend not to learn military skills, and you get more economic/trade related skills if you also have a Curia in that settlement for example). I realized that their are actually more triggers than the ones I listed, but they give the faction specific traits (like philosophy traits), and special schools like the Library of Alexandria are completely separate as well.

So no, you won't have to wait extra turns just to get a chance to learn a trait. After waiting in the settlement the entire turn, it will generate random numbers for all triggers where the condition is met. You'll then get any trait improvements according to those numbers, with a higher number after chance corresponding to being more likely to get the trait. If a character moves up a trait line more quickly then another (assuming other buildings or traits don't change the probability), its all because of luck.

[a-woowie.doowie]

' and you get more economic/trade related skills if you also have a Curia in that settlement for example)

Hehe, now I got particulary interested in this statement . I had no idea that diffrent buildings would affect the trait-outcome(now that you've said it, it kind of makes perfect sense ). Do you happen to know any other buildings that have the same effect? Say for example; "fully upgraded barracks gives military bonuses", and if this would be the case, what happens if I have both a curia and the urban barracks(I think it's the last one in the Ptolemaic building tree).

[Celestial Oblivion]

Hehe, now I got particulary interested in this statement . I had no idea that diffrent buildings would affect the trait-outcome(now that you've said it, it kind of makes perfect sense ). Do you happen to know any other buildings that have the same effect? Say for example; "fully upgraded barracks gives military bonuses", and if this would be the case, what happens if I have both a curia and the urban barracks(I think it's the last one in the Ptolemaic building tree).

Some trait triggers (and quite a few ancillaries) do need barracks types yes. Should you have one, you have a chance to earn those traits plus those of own a curia etc. And this applies to a wide range of buildings (mines/farms give good miner/farmer etc.), so a more developed city gives much more trait opportunities.

[a-woowie.doowie]

So theoretically speaking, would a huge city with every building builit, but without an academy - be better than a huge city with almost nothing else than a ludus magna?

And another thing, are the chances of learning traits in a ludus magna higher than in an academy, or are there just more traits available in a ludus magna?

[Celestial Oblivion]

So theoretically speaking, would a huge city with every building builit, but without an academy - be better than a huge city with almost nothing else than a ludus magna?

And another thing, are the chances of learning traits in a ludus magna higher than in an academy, or are there just more traits available in a ludus magna?

I'm really not sure, its hard to quantify. I think it depends what traits you are looking for. Academies tend to give "skill" traits (speaking, mathematics, strategic etc.) while other buildings give more direct traits (good trader/miner/commander etc.). I would say you probably shouldn't upgrade to a Ludus Magna right away, as it seems to like to require other level 5 buildings for maximum effect. Also remember Academies give law bonuses, which can be quite good by themselves.

From the looks of it, Ludus Magnus keeps most of the trait bonuses from previous academic buildings, though for a couple of them the chances do increase. So overall I guess the answer to your question is both.