Nomination - Modding Awards 2010

[MasterBigAb]

Lol I hope you know the tool called Ctrl+H

It is +c/v for me but yes

[Nanny de Bodemloze]

My request - when it comes to posting the polls, I would like it to be in big, bright red lettering the rules surrounding vote-lobbying, with emphasis that advertising the awards are cool but directing people to vote for Modder A or Mod B is not cool. I would like to avoid things like this:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ghlight=awards

[Meneth]

But lobbying is half the fun :/

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[.Mitch.]

People are allowed to post in the award area that X should vote for me because Y.

So I honestly see no problem when modders get fans to vote for their mod. It's not like they are being threatened into voting, they still want to, it's just in the mod area they are being directed as to how.

If we are going down this route you may aswell ban any publicity of the awards being allowed in any modding areas. Simply having the awards advertised in ones mod forum/thread is the pretty much the same as asking the fans to vote for the mod.

[Nanny de Bodemloze]

Simply having the awards advertised in ones mod forum/thread is the pretty much the same as asking the fans to vote for the mod.

I know what you are saying, and it has some truth to it, but the difference between them exists and the rules exist...not much difference than if I emailed my buddies off-line and told them to vote for my vid...they aren't forced to, and yet they would, and it would all be quite unsporting, turning it all into one big popularity contest. We should at least try to keep the appearance of being merit based.

[.Mitch.]

turning it all into one big popularity contest.

Aren't these awards about popularity though?

I'd say the whole thing should allow advertising and what have you. (Maybe Im biased, yes.)

Would be unfair if for instance a mod with 1,000 fairly inactive TWC members (the type who rarely view other parts of TWC) as fan lost to a mod with 100 active TWC fans (the type who do look else where).

A thread in a dev forum, or a post in a thread I would think is actualy more fair, that way everyone is setting off on equal footing knowing what they can do.

I just think the idea of an awards vote being decided by who's fans are the most eagle eye'd on TWC and spot the awards, isn't a very fair way to let this award, or any other, turn out?

[MasterBigAb]

Puhh you both have good points...

[Nanny de Bodemloze]

Aren't these awards about popularity though?

I'd say the whole thing should allow advertising and what have you. (Maybe Im biased, yes.)

Would be unfair if for instance a mod with 1,000 fairly inactive TWC members (the type who rarely view other parts of TWC) as fan lost to a mod with 100 active TWC fans (the type who do look else where).

A thread in a dev forum, or a post in a thread I would think is actualy more fair, that way everyone is setting off on equal footing knowing what they can do.

I just think the idea of an awards vote being decided by who's fans are the most eagle eye'd on TWC and spot the awards, isn't a very fair way to let this award, or any other, turn out?

I agree that the award voting should be heavily advertised...but I assume it will appear on the TWC-wide header notices etc. You have to realize, that many junior members are heavily influenced by the suggestions of lead modders and site leaders. I'll give you an example. Let's say you not a citizenship, but keen and trying to please everyone and hope to join the club soon. You visit the political mudpit. You are thinking of posting an opininated and controversial post. Suddenly, a CdeC member, in full North Korean medal regalia posts the opposite opinion with indication that this issue is very personal to them. I would say 90% of people hesitate there (whether they should or not is another issue). My point is that small L leaders around here can often influence things just by their very presence in a thread. And when a leader (like a lead modder) tells people who post in the mods thread that "My mod is the best...vote for it, here's the link", many of those people are not inclined to go investigate the competition. Should they? Yes. Will they? Likely not.

The process has a much better chance of retaining integrity if everyone sticks to a fair songbook. "Go out an vote my children, but be objective and vote for what you think is best" is a much more positive message from a leader, and a lot less sleazy.

[MasterBigAb]

I agree that the award voting should be heavily advertised...but I assume it will appear on the TWC-wide header notices etc. You have to realize, that many junior members are heavily influenced by the suggestions of lead modders and site leaders. I'll give you an example. Let's say you not a citizenship, but keen and trying to please everyone and hope to join the club soon. You visit the political mudpit. You are thinking of posting an opininated and controversial post. Suddenly, a CdeC member, in full North Korean medal regalia posts the opposite opinion with indication that this issue is very personal to them. I would say 90% of people hesitate there (whether they should or not is another issue). My point is that small L leaders around here can often influence things just by their very presence in a thread. And when a leader (like a lead modder) tells people who post in the mods thread that "My mod is the best...vote for it, here's the link", many of those people are not inclined to go investigate the competition. Should they? Yes. Will they? Likely not.

The process has a much better chance of retaining integrity if everyone sticks to a fair songbook. "Go out an vote my children, but be objective and vote for what you think is best" is a much more positive message from a leader, and a lot less sleazy.

That's like a moral question, like a unwritten rule, how the leader should / should not behave - its the same in everydays life.... you could use that for many situations - the question is whether to make the unwritten-morally-right written or not.

What if we made it a rule that advertising for one member with link and stuff is forbidden and we see someone doing it ? What if another one but the mod leader does so, shall we declear a mod/modder nomination invalid cause another one did so? I think it might be hard to control, or more to deal with infractions in that case then.

[.Mitch.]

many of those people are not inclined to go investigate the competition. Should they? Yes. Will they? Likely not.

Are you saying everyone who votes in the awards will have investigated every mod in that category to see who's they actualy prefer?

No, of course not, and it would be utterly crazy to ask them to. Voters won't ever look at every option, it's pointless trying to force that it will never happen.

If a member who's favourite mod he has tried is TATW for instance, If he at any point ever comes across a poll with TATW as an option, he will vote for them. What difference does it make how he gets to the poll?

A members favourite mod is a 'constant' value. It won't change, regardless of how much mind control power you think I have as a mod leader.

If I ask a member to vote for my mod when his favourite is TATW, will he? There is always the possibilty he will.
You have to trust in the fans they will vote for their favourite mod in a favourite mod poll. (As obvious as that sounds)

If we are going down the road of adjusting things so there is no bias possible anywhere at all. Then you should go on mod Download figures instead of leaving it to chance.

My point is, in a simple form.. If a members favourite mod is X, he will vote for X.
Every mod should have the chance to ask people in their mod forum/thread to vote for them. If the people there like the mod, they will vote, if not they will vote for their other favourite.

---

And just to make sure are you advocating zero allowance of any threads and/or posts in dev forums/mod threads advertising the fact there are modding awards ?

[MasterBigAb]

Are you saying everyone who votes in the awards will have investigated every mod in that category to see who's they actualy prefer?

No, of course not, and it would be utterly crazy to ask them to. Voters won't ever look at every option, it's pointless trying to force that it will never happen.

If a member who's favourite mod he has tried is TATW for instance, If he at any point ever comes across a poll with TATW as an option, he will vote for them. What difference does it make how he gets to the poll?

A members favourite mod is a 'constant' value. It won't change, regardless of how much mind control power you think I have as a mod leader.

If I ask a member to vote for my mod when his favourite is TATW, will he? There is always the possibilty he will.
You have to trust in the fans they will vote for their favourite mod in a favourite mod poll. (As obvious as that sounds)

If we are going down the road of adjusting things so there is no bias possible anywhere at all. Then you should go on mod Download figures instead of leaving it to chance.

My point is, in a simple form.. If a members favourite mod is X, he will vote for X.
Every mod should have the chance to ask people in their mod forum/thread to vote for them. If the people there like the mod, they will vote, if not they will vote for their other favourite.

---

And just to make sure are you advocating zero allowance of any threads and/or posts in dev forums/mod threads advertising the fact there are modding awards ?

Like i already said controling and dealing with infractions of such a rule would be pretty hard, and also noone will be able to see what mod someone has voted for so even if a member tells a mod leader yes he will vote for his mod, he for hisself knows noone will see and be able to controll his actual vote hence he can decide free for himself.

[.Mitch.]

What's stopping me from asking one of the many fans of my mod who'v added me on Steam to post some posts/threads asking others to vote for my mod?

Nothing. Like Abs said, it's incredibly hard to control. Infact you probably won't control it.

If you instead allow every mod the same priveledge to advertise, then everyone is on equal footing, there will be no in-depth controling of every post/thread in dev forums. etc

It just seems like the best alternative, all round.

That said, I do completely understand Nannys point of view.

[MasterBigAb]

Theoretically I am for Nanny's suggestion, i just think it's not that easy realizable and therefore we can just hope, oh or may be we write in big letters pls do not advertise any specific mod/member, that would still be something i could imagen...

What's stopping me from asking one of the many fans of my mod who'v added me on Steam to post some posts/threads asking others to vote for my mod?

Nothing. Like Abs said, it's incredibly hard to control. Infact you probably won't control it.

If you instead allow every mod the same priveledge to advertise, then everyone is on equal footing, there will be no in-depth controling of every post/thread in dev forums. etc

It just seems like the best alternative, all round.

That said, I do completely understand Nannys point of view.

Yap.

[MasterBigAb]

@ Mitch you want to help counting nominations ?

For the actuall nomination thread/s - i will later make sample/test threads in the Member Awards Comitee - i think will be two threads how the offical ones will/could look like so they can be corrected if neccessary (and updated) and then just copied for the actual nominations...

[Meneth]

You haven't put me on the list of nomination counters yet
Also: I agree with Mitch. Vote garnering cannot be controlled, and putting everyone on equal ground would therefore be best.

[Nanny de Bodemloze]

Don't over-dramatize my points Mitch

This is not so different than POTW or VOTM competitions.

You are right, we can't and shouldn't make anyone check out all the options for voting. And we can't control off-site silly buggery.

But right now, a current citizen is being crucified behind closed doors for allegedly (not one stick of proof) doing exactly what you are advocating. When we allow any kind of vote-for-me advertising anywhere on the site, then you know how this goes down: the people who rally their troops better win. Small mods get crushed. Newer (and maybe better) mods get crushed. And at that point, I really have to ask the 60 million dollar question...

What is the point of these awards?

[.Mitch.]

Call me a biased knob if you want but..

Why is a modder, who has possibly put hundreds of hours into his mod, not allowed to fight for his mods right to win?

You say I'm over-dramatizing your points. I can't help but feel you are over-dramatizing the impact of a thread that fans of a mod will look at simply asking 'if you like my mod vote for it'.

What is the point of these awards?

Better question..
What is off-site silly buggery?

[MasterBigAb]

You haven't put me on the list of nomination counters yet
Also: I agree with Mitch. Vote garnering cannot be controlled, and putting everyone on equal ground would therefore be best.

Oh sorry.
Updatedthe list so far, is anyone involved in a section he is counting for ?
MasterBigAb - Napoleon Modifications
Killerbee - Napoleon Modders
Meneth - Empire Modifications
ulti2day - Empire Modders
Mitch - Medieval II Modifications
Nanny de Bodemloze - Medieval II Modders
The Hedge Knight - Rome Modifications
??? - Rome Modders

What is the point of these awards?

Basically a most favourite contest - and surely also to give the modders an award so they are glad to get somehting for their work, nothing pretty more as to keep all the mods/modding/modders and the priority of modding on this side (as when you remember back for some years, modding wasn't that highly presented at this page and the admins did everything to get modders here...)

To quote myself:

Theoretically I am for Nanny's suggestion, i just think it's not that easy realizable and therefore we can just hope, oh or may be we write in big letters pls do not advertise any specific mod/member, that would still be something i could imagen...

[Nanny de Bodemloze]

What is off-site silly buggery?

you know what that means thanks for the pictures, btw, you are kindof pretty yourself

Question: if you have to watch an awards show, do you tune into the Oscars or the People's Choice Awards? I choose the Oscars because there is at least the appearance of merit. I already know who the "people's choices" are...they are the ones with the most ticket sales.

Celine Dion's "Falling Into You" has outsold Pink Floyd's "The Wall". Anyways, I abandon ship on the point for the sake of getting on with this and moving forward, but reserve the right to say "told you so" later


@ MasterBigAb - yes, I'm involved in the ETW...I'm listed as a developer for Darthmod.

[MasterBigAb]

This is "just" an internet platform after all, don't take all the awards and shinies stuff so serious