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Thread: Mercenary??

  1. #1

    Default Mercenary??

    Hi Guys!(the team of rise of persia)

    i have a question to you:

    do you know fortunately, that in the later history, i mean around the time of barbarian invasion, in the 2-3th century a.d., when the sassanids, roxoni ruled the east....were there any mercenaryes, who maybe looked like your persians??
    cause we would like to put some merc.units in the attillas invasio barbaricum mod, and i really like your modells....

    please reply me, what do you think about this....
    your work is just beautiful....
    if not persians, please lend us the scythians, cause they look horrible in BI!!
    thx a lot
    bye

  2. #2

    Default

    I am sure Rez will get back to you. But as a historian myself I can explain this to you. Who do you think the Sassanids were? Sassanids are the Persians. It was Ardeshir a Persian Vassal under the Partian rule who started a rebellion against the Partians and defeated them. The Sassanids proclaimed being the true successor of the Achamenids (those models you see here in this mod). Therefore using these models as Barbarians in 2-3 AD is historically TOTALY inaccurate. Since even the Sassanid-footsoldiers themselves looked totally differently.

    It would be like mixing the ancient/classical age with early middle age.

    Regards
    Houman

  3. #3

    Default

    yeah i understand....i wasnt really clear in persian history, you know in hungray, they dont teach it so detailed.....and im not learning ancient history since almost two years now....
    im on economy high schools, so escuse me for my ignorence...

    so you say, such troops couldnt even exist as mercenaryes...??
    what would you suggest?
    how did mercenaryes look like?

    so than sassanids,, are persians...under a nother name?!if i understodd you correct...but they look really different....did so much change in their wy of war, and lifestyle in the past centuryes?
    could you tell me something about this...
    i would be really happy..
    thx
    bye

  4. #4

    Default

    No problem friend. Sorry if my tone might seem to have been too sharp. It wasn't intended at all. I am a very calm and friendly person. And you can ask so many questions as you wish too.

    First of all you should know that the history of this part of land that is known as Persia to the Western people was called Eran-Shahr by the native people. These people, originally descendants from Aryans came from the steppes of north and part of them decided to settle down in today’s Iran. The name Eran is deriving from Aryan and Shahr means lands. "Lands of the Aryans" or Eran transformed in many centuries later into Iran.

    The Western people think that Iran is called as Iran only since 1935 as this name was officially published to the West. However even in the book of Shahname (Epic of the Kings) the most famous modern Persian poetry written in about 800 AD is calling these lands “Iran”.

    Iran has always been a multi-cultural country. Many different Aryan tribes with similar language and culture lived and prospered next to each other. The biggest tribes were though the Medes, the Persians and the Partians. The Medes were quite powerful in the beginning (~1000 BC), until a Persian Vassal called Cyrus started a rebellion against the Medes in about 600 BC and the first Persian Empire was born. However the Persian Empire called their lands Eran or Eran-Shahr as explained before and never Persian Empire as such. It was the Greeks who gave this name to the entire empire, since the ruler of that empire in those times were the Persians. But the Persians never crushed the Medes but integrated them totally equally into their own ranks. This first Empire that you see in this mod was called Achamenid Empire (or in Persian Hakhamanesh). Cyrus used the name of his grandfather Hakhamanesh to name his empire.

    Alexander destroyed the Persian Empire and after his death, it were the Partians from North-East who started a rebellion and crushed the Greeks (Seleucids) and regained the power. The Partians called their Land Eran as well and they have been very tolerant regarding religion and personal freedom. They respected the Hellenistic gods but they promoted the Iranian religion that is Zarathustranism from the Achamenid times as well. The Partians even had a Senat like the Romans. The first Partian King that came to power also took the name of his grandfather Arsacid (or in Persian Ashk) to follow the tradition. So the second Iranian dynasty called Arsacids or Ashkanian were born.

    The Sassanid came into power as I explained before after a Persian vassal in the state of Pars began his rebellion and succesfully overthrown the Partians. This Persian King named his dynasty as well after his grandfather Sassan, so the Sassanid Empire was born.

    ---

    Now to military:
    You can see the whole Achamenid Empire in here, mainly foot soldiers as it was common in the ancient/classical age.

    Never forget that through the histroy military improves as well as black smithing/armor/weapon making. This three dynasties that we are talking about existed from 600 BC - 651 AD

    The Arsacids that were originally very close to their Aryan-cousins the Scythians were like them a steppe-folk. The Romans e.g. said they never saw a Partian without his horse. The Partians were excellent Horse-Archers and had excellent Cataphtracts (armored-riders). They barely used foot-soldiers. This is surprisingly well done in Rome:Total War. Romans were almost every time crushed into dust since the Arsacids never charged them but divided the army into half and fled from the enemy. The enemy thinking of victory charged the Partians and the Partians responded with their famous "Partian-Shot". They could not only slacken the reins but let it completely go while still riding the horse away from the enemy. Since they had both hands free, they turned to the enemy while the horse kept running forward. They used strong composite bows to shoot the poor charging enemy frontally. These partisan attacks were very efficient. The horse Archers were trained from the age of 5.

    The Sassanids used the tactics of both former dynasties. Strong foot soldiers like Achamenids and very strong cavalry and Horse archers like the Arsacids. However they still prefered the cavalry rather than the infantry. The infantry was more a Plan-B situation in the battles. Like the Achamenids and Arsacids they mainly barraged the enemy before charging them with their strong Cataphtracts. Sassanid kept the "Partian-shot" tactic.

    If you are interested to read more about the Sassanid military:
    http://www.throneworld.com/oathofemp.../sassanids.htm

    Summary:

    PHP Code:
    Name of Empire         Name of Tribe
    Achamenids              Persians
    /Medes
    Arsacids                   Partians
    Sassanids                 Persians 

    ---
    Mercenaries:

    Regarding your Mod in 2-3 AD the Sassanian were very strong at this point of history. They used Arab mercenaries within own lines as well as white-Hun mercenaries. The white-Huns lived in eastern of today’s Iran, probably in today’s Afghanistan. They were called Hephthalites or white-Huns that were a Turko-Mongol horde. They were eliminated by the Sassanids after many bloody battles though. They have weakened the Sassanids a lot.
    There were also the ‘normal’ Huns in the north of Iran (today’s southern ex-soviet Republics). The Arabs were in South West (today’s Saudia-Arabia). In the West were the East-Romans (Byzantinians). These were practically the neighbors of Iran in the 2-3 AD.

    Hope that helps a bit
    Houman
    Last edited by Houmie; January 16, 2006 at 11:11 AM.

  5. #5

    Default

    I recommend also this excellent upcoming book regarding military by Manoucher M. Khorasani:

    http://www.legat-verlag.de/_e/Swords1.html

  6. #6

    Default

    well done indeed houmie, i didnt have to say anything!

    With regards to our scythians you shall have to wait for nero666 to respond as he is the team leader. But if he doesnt see it i'll ask him. Personally i would think you should wait until the beta gets released and take the scythians then. Though they have had an overhaul so they look even better!

  7. #7

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    with regards to the Scythians (the ones I have seen in the apologetic screenies), they did not look very good. There were several mistakes in arms and armor, which were definetly wrong (laminated armor, chainmail, long lances and some more).
    I made a post in the Hegemonia forum about them, most of it's information applies for this mod's timeframe, too.

    Just thought, this could intrest you.

  8. #8
    Zenith Darksea's Avatar Ορθοδοξία ή θάνατος!
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    Default

    We don't have a Scythian specialist historian at ROP right now, so if you're interested in helping, and know a lot about the Scythians, that would be helpful.

  9. #9

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    i read fliegers post on the scythians, and applying that to our new set of models i think they corroberate quite well. Rest assured they are far more in keeping with you're research now. But if you like i could get together a new preview as soon as i buy a new copy of rtw

  10. #10

    Default

    Zenith Darksea,

    I would not consider myself as expert, I just know a bit about ancient cavalry. Since Rez already did organise a remake of them, I am quite confident that they will be much better then.

    Here is my post: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=41000

    Anyway, if you have any further questions, you can turn on me.

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