Rule Violation - Josstwc

[Tuor]

Josstwc has been accused of teleporting to an enemy during a ceasefire. Teleporting to an enemy is against the rules.

The accused may mount a defense. I suggest that the defense be posted before discussion begins fully.

Edit: This is done as requested. I'm merely trying to appease those that wanted this thread to be separate from Akar's Rule Violation discussion.

[Aanker]

Josst is welcome to post a defence and I will put up the poll as soon as possible following that.

[.Mitch.]

Perma-ban.

[Nyxos]

here is the link to the discussion about the rule that Josst has broken http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=414692

This rule was never implemented and I have always considered it void and due to re-vote because of the lack of options and the ambiguity of the poll

Examples of what I mean

Simple question, should tping to someone be legal even if the person in question does not agree? This is of course only relevent in cases where the other rules do not apply, so tping directly to an enemy or battles site is still illegal. Poll up. I voted yes, though that saidits still a bit rude and I hope I won't have to do it. Sama very badly formulated his poll, as he meant "can we TP to someone that has said he doesn't want to be TPed to" and not "Do we have to ask before TPing" Thus the poll doesn't mean was the person that brought it up wanted it to mean, it should've been rendered void and re-voted. I was think of putting in more quotes to support this, but i'd have to quote the entire thread as it is a mass of misunderstandings and such

So basically, Josst didn't break a rule.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Perma-ban.

p.s i know he's sarcastic

[Tuor]

For clarity: Joss violated two rules.

1. He teleported to an enemy player during a time of war (ceasefire or none, it's still an ongoing war as peace had not been established).

2. He teleported to a person without said person's permission.

[Lord Romanus III]

here is the link to the discussion about the rule that Josst has broken http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=414692

This rule was never implemented and I have always considered it void and due to re-vote because of the lack of options and the ambiguity of the poll

Examples of what I mean

Sama very badly formulated his poll, as he meant "can we TP to someone that has said he doesn't want to be TPed to" and not "Do we have to ask before TPing" Thus the poll doesn't mean was the person that brought it up wanted it to mean, it should've been rendered void and re-voted. I was think of putting in more quotes to support this, but i'd have to quote the entire thread as it is a mass of misunderstandings and such

So basically, Josst didn't break a rule.

I voted on that poll for what it meant. Everyone that voted on that poll so what it said and voted as they saw fit. It is not rendered void.

[.Mitch.]

For clarity: Joss violated two rules.

1. He teleported to an enemy player during a time of war (ceasefire or none, it's still an ongoing war as peace had not been established).

A ceasefire is a stopping of War. There is no state of War in a ceasefire. Josst and Akar were not at War at this time.

[Tuor]

Also, the poll was never closed nor the results added to the rules. I find this to be another error of the moderators. However, the poll was up for a reasonable amount of time (longer than three days, mind you, because it was up on December 30th) and should be regarded as a rule, regardless of whether or not it is added to the rulebook by a mod. It is still decided.

[Nyxos]

I voted on that poll for what it meant. Everyone that voted on that poll so what it said and voted as they saw fit. It is not rendered void.

so what did it mean ? TPing to person without asking beforehand, or TPing to a person who has asked not to be TPed to ?

Sama meant the latter.

[Aanker]

The rule was not written within the rulebook. As I have stated before, this is a blame that should be left on me and Ferrets. Josst cannot be blamed for not checking a poll that had been lying a page or two down, suppressed by far more active threads, when it was closed and the rule would have gone into effect. This should have been done by me and Ferrets, but I simply forgot it, and Ferrets might not even have been present here at the time of its closure. I offer my humble apologies, but the rules thread doesn't say, at the moment, anything else than:

1) No destroying anybody else's buildings without their permission, period. If by accident you destroy a block that is a part of a building you should replace it.
2)No building within the sight of The City, unless it is The City itself.
3)No City building is to be higher than the light of The Lighthouse.
4)No building over another player's building.
5)No building directly under another player's building without their permission.
6)If you take on a community building project, then please finish it before beginning your own private house or Wilderness constructions.
7)No private slip gates within The City
8)No mining directly below The City, and only via the main Mine Entrance's shaft.
9)No building with bedrock
10)When inviting somebody to join the server, always refer them to this thread!
11) Each citizen is allowed to build one house in The City and any community project they successfully pitch for.

[.Mitch.]

I change my Vote to Perma-ban Aanker.

Good day to you sir.

[Tuor]

A ceasefire is a stopping of War. There is no state of War in a ceasefire. Josst and Akar were not at War at this time.

a temporary stopping*
It is not an peace agreement, which is a formal agreement to end fighting period. The two parties were and are still at war. There is a signed ceasefire agreement between North Korea and South Korea, but they are still technically at war.

[Lord Romanus III]

The rule was not written within the rulebook. As I have stated before, this is a blame that should be left on me and Ferrets. Josst cannot be blamed for not checking a poll that had been lying a page or two down, suppressed by far more active threads, when it was closed and the rule would have gone into effect. This should have been done by me and Ferrets, but I simply forgot it, and Ferrets might not even have been present here at the time of its closure. I offer my humble apologies, but the rules thread doesn't say, at the moment, anything else than:

It is unfortunate that Josst cannot be responsible enough to examine polls that regard rules. Especially with a poll that only fell under after three days.

[Nyxos]

It is unfortunate that Josst cannot be responsible enough to examine polls that regard rules. Especially with a poll that only fell under after three days.

I honestly thought that poll had been dismissed, little to no discussion and the murky OP made me dismiss that rule as applied. I have myself broken it several times since the poll ended, and a poll should be made for me too.

[Tuor]

I honestly thought that poll had been dismissed, little to no discussion and the murky OP made me dismiss that rule as applied. I have myself broken it several times since the poll ended, and a poll should be made for me too.

I doubt a poll would be warranted since you are confessing to something that we didn't even know you did. If you really want to, go ahead. I won't stop you, you dirty rulebreaker.

[The Hedge Knight]

Right my defense is as follows.

Firstly as far as i was concerned at the time the war was over with all parties. The Ishk had declared peace and perhaps niavely i presumed this included all its members. As Akar was no longer a member of isk and was at war this must have meant he formed his own kingdom yet i have no seen any declaration of war. Under the terms of the rules we were not at war.

Secondly if you saw someone with a past record of greifing and abusing rules (this is the guy that not only blocked one of my tunnels but also put 10 tnt blocks under one of my constructions for no reason whatsoever) spawning several hundred tnt would you not check what they were doing. Tnt is a dangerous block afterall and to anyone who has not seen 500 blocks go off (what i saw akar spawn, the actual figure was over 1000) i suggest they take a look at orzammar. Thats what happens when you set of 400 tnt, not a safe thing.

Thirdly i believe we should all take responsibility for the wellbeing of this server and if that means making the odd check then why not. Akar was in no way affected by what i did and i saw i viable threat to other peoples constructions.

Forthly as has been stated the thread the tping poll though won was not placed in either rule thread. In my mind it was a consensus and not a law.

To keep this server safe we need to be prepared to have some guts. What i did was the right thing to do under the circumstances. It is my opinion that the mass spawning and use of tnt should not be allowed.

[Ascarona]

I'ma vote 2 week de-op on this.

here is the link to the discussion about the rule that Josst has broken http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=414692

This rule was never implemented and I have always considered it void and due to re-vote because of the lack of options and the ambiguity of the poll

Examples of what I mean

Sama very badly formulated his poll, as he meant "can we TP to someone that has said he doesn't want to be TPed to" and not "Do we have to ask before TPing" Thus the poll doesn't mean was the person that brought it up wanted it to mean, it should've been rendered void and re-voted. I was think of putting in more quotes to support this, but i'd have to quote the entire thread as it is a mass of misunderstandings and such

So basically, Josst didn't break a rule.

Josst did brake a rule, the community voted that such a practise is a douchebag offence that shouldn't be allowed.

A ceasefire is a stopping of War. There is no state of War in a ceasefire. Josst and Akar were not at War at this time.

Akar declared war, end of story. A ceasefire means what it says, to cease the fighting, it doesn't end the war or anything it simply declares no more fighting.

I change my Vote to Perma-ban Aanker.

Good day to you sir.

+Rep

[nhytgbvfeco2]

joss...
1)akar made a public war declaration,its not his fault that you dont read the forums.
2)you should ask,not tp.and infact it is rule breaking,the golden rule.if he killed you because of tping to him it obvously made him un-happy that you tp'd to him,which means you did brake a rule.
3)again,some people find that annoying.like me for example,tping to me will give a stab in the face.
4)if a person murders but says he never heard of the rule does it mean he's not guilty?no it doesnt.
5)there is no rule about spawning tnt and how much you can spawn.the right thing to do is ask,not tp to a person.or just ignore which is what i usually do.

[The Hedge Knight]

5)there is no rule about spawning tnt and how much you can spawn.the right thing to do is ask,not tp to a person.or just ignore which is what i usually do.

This is the only one of your points which is remotelly relevant so i will answer it because there is.

Firstly there is the rule against greifing and the primary weapon for this is tnt. Several hundred tnt could cause a whole lot of greif.

Secondly there is the golden rule 'do not spoil the fun of others' crashing the server via tnt (or severly lagging it even) violates fun and therefor violates the golden rule.