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Thread: [HISTORICAL ISSUE] - Firearms in Balkans

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    phoenix[illusion]'s Avatar Palman Bracht
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    Icon5 [HISTORICAL ISSUE] - Firearms in Balkans

    So, this thread is for firearms, when they appeared in Balkans, and their first usage.
    I cut some pages from "The late Byzantine army: arms and society, 1204-1453", cause it has many information about it, both byzantium and serbia, and some information gives a new point of view. anyways, if you have information about the Bosnia, Wallachia or Bulgaria, please post

    Firearms on Balkans, Dubrovnik, cannon in Kotor, firearms in Serbia, usage in Battle of Kosovo
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Firearms in Byzantium, first mentioned firearms in the Empire, Franks in service of Byzantium with cannons

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    First ottoman firearms
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Manufacturing on Balkans, exploiting, economy of cannons

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Last edited by SpyrosM91; January 03, 2012 at 10:15 AM.
    long time no see, but still twc drug kickin'
    check out Tsardoms: Total War!
    Under patronage of respectable Annaeus
    Patron of honorable Giacomo Colonna


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    Default Re: Firearms in Balkans

    Interesting... Will read it later, i have no time now. +rep
    edit: Does this mean you will make cannon units available before Battle of Kosovo?
    Last edited by dabela; January 05, 2011 at 02:58 PM.

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    Wallachian's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Firearms in Balkans

    In the Romanian principalities the first firearms were recorded at the start of the XVth century. The first voivode to equip his army with firearms was Alexander the Kind, voivode of Moldova (1400 - 1432), who received a few bombards from the Polish king Władysław Jagiełło as a gift and also bought bombards from Genovese traders. In Wallachia it is believed that the first voivode to equip his army with gunpowder artillery was Mircea the Elder (1355 - 1418).

    The bombards used in the principalities were usually built out of tree trunks, iron and placed on a mobile platform. However, there were some that were built out of castings and iron. In 1432 the Wallachian voivode Vlad Dracul sent a request to the cannon makers of Brasov saying "I beg you, as brothers of mine, build for me a hundred guns". Two of the bombards with a metal barrel were used by Vlad Dracul's army in the siege of Giurgiu in 1445. The chronicle of Jean de Wavrin mentioned that these two bombards "made more noise then actual damage".

    Another documented use of artilery by the Wallachians was during the reign of Vlad the Impaler. Vlad was the most innovative general in terms of the use of gunpowder in Wallachia. This is due to his time spent at the Ottoman court as a young hostage and also his knowledge of Western warfare and his time spent first as an exile and later as a hostage in Hungary.

    During Vlad's reign the chronicle on the walls of the Putna monastery tell us how at the siege of Chilia in 1462 the defenders of the fortress repelled the first attack of Vlad's cousin and former ally Stefan the Great using artilery. During the siege Stefan was wounded in the heel by the Wallachian cannon fire, a wound which would cause him grief for the rest of his life.

    Vlad the Impaler was also the first Wallachian voivode to use handheld firearms in an organised way. He captured the pasha of Giurgiu using an ambush and a force made up exclusively of troops with handheld firearms. He surrounded the Turks and ordered his handgunners to fire in volleys.

    Although, the first documents mentioning firearms in the principalities predate the ascension of Stefan the Great on the Moldavian throne, historical research show that only in his reign (late XVth century) was artilery used as a distinct type of weapon with an operational use.

    Differently from Janos Hunyadi who was an adept of offensive actions and who in the first half of the XVth century focused on the development of field artilery, Stefan concentrated on defensive strategies and on the development of an extensive system of fortifications with artilery positions.

    Giovani Maria Angiollelo, the secretary of the Ottoman sultan Mehmet Fatih wrote that during the siege of the Neamt citadel in 1476 "the defenders from the fortress did not want to talk to us and defended themselves with cannons and did not care about us". The turkish chronicle quotes that "the carts were located on the infidels' side, from which cannons were fired...making the earth shatter from their thundering...the janissaries, not being able to withstand such hits, although they were used to face cannons and guns with their chests, had to lie with their faces on the ground". The Polish historian Bernard Wapowski described that during the Polish siege of Suceava in 1497 "the citadel was reinforced with a powerful garrison which defended it bravely because they had cannons and other war machines". Also, according to Wapowski, Suceava was besieged by "grand cannons, machines for bringing down walls, two of which were of such a size that one had to be drawn by 40 horses, the other by 50 horses". The Moldavians preceded to lift the siege and capture all this artillery.

    The cannons of the citadels were fixed in the towers of the outer walls, were made out of metal, especially bronze and were bought from Transilvania (from Brasov, Sighisoara, Sibiu/Hermanstadt) or from Poland (from Lvov). The projectiles were built locally out of stone or metal and the gunpowder was usually brought from Lvov. In 1475 a Moldavian army engineer called Mihail was sent to Lvov to purchase 16 saltpeter stones. The cannon handlers were usually members of the local armourer guilds or foreign mercenaries.

    In 1999 during archaeological investigations done around the Moldavian citadel of Orheiul Vechi two artilery pieces from the reign of Stefan the Great were discovered. These cannons are the oldest cannons discovered in Bessarabia. The cannons were made of bronze and were discovered in the soil beneath a wrecked house in the south-western corner of the citadel. They were oriented with their mouths towards east and inside one of the cannons a stone cannon ball was found. The hiding of these cannons in the citadel's soil is connected to the 1510 Tatar invasion of Moldova led by the khan Beti-Ghirei. The heraldic symbols on the cannons indicate they were built in Poland and were either purchased from the neighbouring state or captured during the battle of Cosmin Forest in 1497.

    Besides the citadel cannons the Moldavian army was also equiped with smaller field artilery. Their number was much smaller then the citadel artilery. Their caliber was only 10 and 15 cms and they were transported on carriages. When firing the cannons were mounted on wooden platforms.

    Most of the field cannons used by the Moldavians in the late XVth century (excepting the locally made cannons with wooden barrels) were either imported or captured during the victories over the Hungarians at Baia (1467) and the Ottomans at Vaslui (1475). After the battle of Baia, Stefan wrote to the Polish king Cazimir telling him that he had captured "all the enemy's wagons, tents and all types of cannons, tools, small guns and big guns".

    At the battle of Vaslui in 1475 Stefan already had 20 bombards which could fire 7 rounds each. Following the battle the Moldavians captured all of the Ottoman's artilery. One year later at the battle of Razboieni (Valea Alba) there are abundant sources that mention field artilery in the Moldavian army. At this battle the Moldavian army dug entrenchements where the field artilery was placed and protected with shrubs and fallen logs. Giovanni Maria Angiollelo mentions that the first salvo of the cannons did not hurt the Turks as they were too far away. However, as the Turkish attack drew close the cannon fire caused considerable victims. This event is later confirmed in Turkish historiography, first in 1584 by the Ottoman historiograph Sa'adeddin Mehmed efendi and later in the XVIIIth century by the Ottoman prime-chancellor the Kodja Husein.

    When it comes to handheld gunpowder weapons the most important one used by the Moldavian army in the late XVth century was the arquebus. One such arquebus was uncovered by archaeological digs at Cetatea Alba (Akkerman) in 1929. The arquebus is simillar to the ones produced in the same period in Bohemia. It is assumed that it was imported from that region, being well known that Stefan had diplomatic relations with the king of Bohemia, confirmed by correspondence between that two from 1468. The description of the captured guns from the Poles after the battle of Cosmin Forest is as follows "all the big guns with which they bombarded Suceava, they took other small ones and a lot more of the smallest ones". In this context "the smallest ones" has been interpreted as portable bombards (arquebuses). Handgunners are also mentioned at the Battle of Valea Alba in 1476 and at the Battle of Vaslui in 1475 when Stefan ordered his artilery, followed by the archers and handgunners to fire on the Ottoman army from three sides.

    During the XVIth century a new phase occured in the the development of artilery. The quality and number of artilery pieces in the Wallachian and Moldavian armies increased.

    The Moldavian voivode Petru Rares (1527 - 1546) acquired several artilery pieces from Genovese traders. In 1529 he fought alongside the Transilvanian prince Jan Zapolya at the battle of Feldioara. Historians mention the Moldavians had 50 heavy cannons and several more cannons with multiple barrels mounted on the same platform (known as ribaldequins). In 1531 the Moldavians were defeated by the Poles at the battle of Obertyn and the polish historian L. Bielski described that the Poles captured all of the 50 heavy cannons and smaller cannons with multiple barrels. These small cannons had between 6 and 8 barrels and once one barrel was ignited all the other ones would catch the spark and fire one after the other.

    During the XVth to XVIth centuries various types of gunpowder weapons were used in the principalities: bombards (heavy and light), culverins and arquebuses. The turkish historian Tur Sun Bey mentions that besides firearms the Moldavian army of the period used other types of warmachines, catapults and balistas to enforce the effect of the cannons.

    It must be noted that both Moldavians and Wallachians believed that the use of handguns against the enemy was a shameful thing. That is why handheld guns were only used by the Voivode's hunters and foreign mercenaries.

    The increase of the importance and power of gunpowder weapons deeply impacted on the army composition of the two principalities. As gunpowder weapons became more numerous in the armies of the time, foreign mercenaries started having a greater role starting with the late XVth century. More and more foreign mercenaries were employed by the voivodes of Wallachia and Moldavia and by the late XVIth century half of the army was composed of mercenaries.
    Last edited by Wallachian; May 11, 2011 at 07:04 AM.

  4. #4
    Sir.Cojocarius's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Firearms in Balkans

    Good information Wallachian!

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    Default Re: Firearms in Balkans

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallachian View Post
    In the Romanian principalities the first firearms were recorded at the start of the XVth century. The first voivode to equip his army with firearms was Alexander the Kind, voivode of Moldova (1400 - 1432), who received a few bombards from the Polish king Władysław Jagiełło as a gift.

    The bombards used in the principalities were usually built out of tree trunks, iron and placed on a mobile platform. However, there were some that were built out of castings and iron, two of these type of artilery being used by the army of the Wallachian voivode Vlad Dracul in the siege of Giurgiu in 1445.

    Another documented use of artilery by the Wallachians was during the reign of Vlad the Impaler. The chronicle on the walls of the Putna monastery tell us how at the siege of Chilia in 1462 the defenders of the fortres repelled the first attack of Vlad's cousin and former ally Stefan the Great using artilery. During the siege Stefan was wounded in the heel by the Wallachian cannon fire, a wound which would cause him grief for the rest of his life.

    Although, the first documents mentioning firearms in the principalities predate the ascension of Stefan the Great on the Moldavian throne, historical research show that only in his reign (late XVth century) was artilery used as a distinct type of weapon with an operational use.

    Differently from Janos Hunyadi who was an adept of offensive actions and who in the first half of the XVth century focused on the development of field artilery, Stefan concentrated on defensive strategies and on the development of an extensive system of fortifications with artilery positions.

    Giovani Maria Angiollelo, the secretary of the Ottoman sultan Mehmet Fatih wrote that during the siege of the Neamt citadel in 1476 "the defenders from the fortress did not want to talk to us and defended themselves with cannons and did not care about us. Also, the Polish historian Wapowski described that during the Polish siege of Suceava in 1497 "the citadel was reinforced with a powerful garrison which defended it bravely because they had cannons and other war machines".

    The cannons of the citadels were fixed in the towers of the outer walls, were made out of metal, especially bronze and were bought from Transilvania (from Brasov) or from Poland (from Lvov).
    The projectiles were built locally out of stone or metal and the gunpowder was usually brought from Lvov. In 1475 a Moldavian army engineer called Mihail was sent to Lvov to purcahse 16 saltpeter stones. The cannon handlers were usually members of the local armourer guilds or foreign mercenaries.

    Besides the citadel cannons the Moldavian army was also equiped with smaller field artilery. Their number was much smaller then the citadel artilery. Their caliber was only 10 and 15 cms and they were transported on carriages. When firing the cannons were mounted on wooden platforms.

    Most of the field cannons used by the Moldavians in the late XVth century (excepting the locally made cannons with wooden barrels) were captured during the victories over the Hungarians at Baia (1467) and the Ottomans at Vaslui (1475). After the battle of Baia, Stefan wrote to the Polish king Cazimir telling him that he had captured "all the enemy's wagons, tents and all types of cannons, tools, small guns and big guns". In the battle of Vaslui the Moldavians captured all of the Ottoman's artilery.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I will continue the text in the next few days because i have translate from a few different documents
    nice, thanks for the info
    +rep for translating it
    Înfrânt nu eşti atunci când sângeri,
    nici ochii când în lacrimi ţi-s.
    Adevăratele înfrângeri,
    sunt renunţările la vis.

  6. #6
    \Vazul's Ghost/'s Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Firearms in Balkans

    Awesome post Wallachian. +Rep
    γνῶθι σεαυτόν ~ μηδὲν ἄγαν

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    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Firearms in Balkans

    In Hungary the first artillery arsenal was founded by Sigismund, at about 1375.

    I am not sure, but I think firearms only appeared in greater numbers in Hungary, when the nobles started hiring hussite mercenaries, and later it became a standard with Mathias.

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    Wallachian's Avatar Citizen
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    Quote Originally Posted by shikaka View Post
    In Hungary the first artillery arsenal was founded by Sigismund, at about 1375.

    I am not sure, but I think firearms only appeared in greater numbers in Hungary, when the nobles started hiring hussite mercenaries, and later it became a standard with Mathias.
    Hunyadi made good use of artilery aswell and the hussite mercenaries were part of his army. Remember reading about the battle of the Iron Gate when the hussite war wagons turned the table of victory in favour of the Hungarian army as they routed a superior Turkish army.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Firearms in Balkans

    @ OP, it's interesting that it seems gunpowder spread from Europe toward Turkey.

    @ Wallachian, why was gunpowder seen as dishonorable in Romania? I never heard that but it's interesting. Quality wise, bows were still superior to hand guns at the time. But guns were easier to use.
    "Mors Certa, Hora Incerta."

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    "The emperor Trajan, after conquering this country, divided it among his soldiers and made it into a Roman colony, so that these Romanians are descendants, as it is said, of these ancient colonists, and they preserve the name of the Romans." ~ 1532, Francesco della Valle Secretary of Aloisio Gritti, a natural son to Doge

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    Wallachian's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Firearms in Balkans

    Quote Originally Posted by Carpathian Wolf View Post
    @ Wallachian, why was gunpowder seen as dishonorable in Romania? I never heard that but it's interesting. Quality wise, bows were still superior to hand guns at the time. But guns were easier to use.
    Basically because it was seen as cowardly and lack of bravery. And i think gunpowder was somehow associated with the devil aswell, so part was superstition. Actually, it was the same for the Turks. When it first appeared they were reluctant to start using it because of the association with the fire and brimstone of hell.

    Here's the quote in Romanian:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Pentru moldoveni, se credea ca "e un lucru de ocara sa foloseasca aceasta unealta (pusti, n. V. J.) impotriva dusmanului, la care nu ajungi nici prin mestesugul razboiului si nici prin vitejie" , de aceea armele de foc portative se gaseau doar in dotarea corpurilor de vanatori si a lefegiilor.


    If you're interested check out these articles. Very comprehensive and informative:

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    Bagatyr's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Firearms in Balkans

    Talking about firearms in the balkans here is bulgarian film about it :
    Devil's Arms:
    14 century. Battin is a young boyar. When it comes envoy to the Bulgarian emperor behest to find the secret weapon of savoyens. Together with two friends, he penetrates the fortress of Amadeus of Savoy.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by Bagatyr; January 16, 2011 at 04:03 AM.




  12. #12
    Wallachian's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Firearms in Balkans

    I finally had some time to finish the description of the use of firearms in the Danubian principalities. I found plenty of good sources so my description turned into a little essay, it's not exhaustive but it encompasses all of the best articles, books etc I could find. There are also other great sources about the master cannon makers of Transilvania, I might translate and adapt those sources aswell when I find more time.

    Anyway, here is the final essay (updated in my first post aswell)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallachian View Post
    In the Romanian principalities the first firearms were recorded at the start of the XVth century. The first voivode to equip his army with firearms was Alexander the Kind, voivode of Moldova (1400 - 1432), who received a few bombards from the Polish king Władysław Jagiełło as a gift and also bought bombards from Genovese traders. In Wallachia it is believed that the first voivode to equip his army with gunpowder artillery was Mircea the Elder (1355 - 1418).

    The bombards used in the principalities were usually built out of tree trunks, iron and placed on a mobile platform. However, there were some that were built out of castings and iron. In 1432 the Wallachian voivode Vlad Dracul sent a request to the cannon makers of Brasov saying "I beg you, as brothers of mine, build for me a hundred guns". Two of the bombards with a metal barrel were used by Vlad Dracul's army in the siege of Giurgiu in 1445. The chronicle of Jean de Wavrin mentioned that these two bombards "made more noise then actual damage".

    Another documented use of artilery by the Wallachians was during the reign of Vlad the Impaler. Vlad was the most innovative general in terms of the use of gunpowder in Wallachia. This is due to his time spent at the Ottoman court as a young hostage and also his knowledge of Western warfare and his time spent first as an exile and later as a hostage in Hungary.

    During Vlad's reign the chronicle on the walls of the Putna monastery tell us how at the siege of Chilia in 1462 the defenders of the fortress repelled the first attack of Vlad's cousin and former ally Stefan the Great using artilery. During the siege Stefan was wounded in the heel by the Wallachian cannon fire, a wound which would cause him grief for the rest of his life.

    Vlad the Impaler was also the first Wallachian voivode to use handheld firearms in an organised way. He captured the pasha of Giurgiu using an ambush and a force made up exclusively of troops with handheld firearms. He surrounded the Turks and ordered his handgunners to fire in volleys.

    Although, the first documents mentioning firearms in the principalities predate the ascension of Stefan the Great on the Moldavian throne, historical research show that only in his reign (late XVth century) was artilery used as a distinct type of weapon with an operational use.

    Differently from Janos Hunyadi who was an adept of offensive actions and who in the first half of the XVth century focused on the development of field artilery, Stefan concentrated on defensive strategies and on the development of an extensive system of fortifications with artilery positions.

    Giovani Maria Angiollelo, the secretary of the Ottoman sultan Mehmet Fatih wrote that during the siege of the Neamt citadel in 1476 "the defenders from the fortress did not want to talk to us and defended themselves with cannons and did not care about us". The turkish chronicle quotes that "the carts were located on the infidels' side, from which cannons were fired...making the earth shatter from their thundering...the janissaries, not being able to withstand such hits, although they were used to face cannons and guns with their chests, had to lie with their faces on the ground". The Polish historian Bernard Wapowski described that during the Polish siege of Suceava in 1497 "the citadel was reinforced with a powerful garrison which defended it bravely because they had cannons and other war machines". Also, according to Wapowski, Suceava was besieged by "grand cannons, machines for bringing down walls, two of which were of such a size that one had to be drawn by 40 horses, the other by 50 horses". The Moldavians preceded to lift the siege and capture all this artillery.

    The cannons of the citadels were fixed in the towers of the outer walls, were made out of metal, especially bronze and were bought from Transilvania (from Brasov, Sighisoara, Sibiu/Hermanstadt) or from Poland (from Lvov). The projectiles were built locally out of stone or metal and the gunpowder was usually brought from Lvov. In 1475 a Moldavian army engineer called Mihail was sent to Lvov to purchase 16 saltpeter stones. The cannon handlers were usually members of the local armourer guilds or foreign mercenaries.

    In 1999 during archaeological investigations done around the Moldavian citadel of Orheiul Vechi two artilery pieces from the reign of Stefan the Great were discovered. These cannons are the oldest cannons discovered in Bessarabia. The cannons were made of bronze and were discovered in the soil beneath a wrecked house in the south-western corner of the citadel. They were oriented with their mouths towards east and inside one of the cannons a stone cannon ball was found. The hiding of these cannons in the citadel's soil is connected to the 1510 Tatar invasion of Moldova led by the khan Beti-Ghirei. The heraldic symbols on the cannons indicate they were built in Poland and were either purchased from the neighbouring state or captured during the battle of Cosmin Forest in 1497.

    Besides the citadel cannons the Moldavian army was also equiped with smaller field artilery. Their number was much smaller then the citadel artilery. Their caliber was only 10 and 15 cms and they were transported on carriages. When firing the cannons were mounted on wooden platforms.

    Most of the field cannons used by the Moldavians in the late XVth century (excepting the locally made cannons with wooden barrels) were either imported or captured during the victories over the Hungarians at Baia (1467) and the Ottomans at Vaslui (1475). After the battle of Baia, Stefan wrote to the Polish king Cazimir telling him that he had captured "all the enemy's wagons, tents and all types of cannons, tools, small guns and big guns".

    At the battle of Vaslui in 1475 Stefan already had 20 bombards which could fire 7 rounds each. Following the battle the Moldavians captured all of the Ottoman's artilery. One year later at the battle of Razboieni (Valea Alba) there are abundant sources that mention field artilery in the Moldavian army. At this battle the Moldavian army dug entrenchements where the field artilery was placed and protected with shrubs and fallen logs. Giovanni Maria Angiollelo mentions that the first salvo of the cannons did not hurt the Turks as they were too far away. However, as the Turkish attack drew close the cannon fire caused considerable victims. This event is later confirmed in Turkish historiography, first in 1584 by the Ottoman historiograph Sa'adeddin Mehmed efendi and later in the XVIIIth century by the Ottoman prime-chancellor the Kodja Husein.

    When it comes to handheld gunpowder weapons the most important one used by the Moldavian army in the late XVth century was the arquebus. One such arquebus was uncovered by archaeological digs at Cetatea Alba (Akkerman) in 1929. The arquebus is simillar to the ones produced in the same period in Bohemia. It is assumed that it was imported from that region, being well known that Stefan had diplomatic relations with the king of Bohemia, confirmed by correspondence between that two from 1468. The description of the captured guns from the Poles after the battle of Cosmin Forest is as follows "all the big guns with which they bombarded Suceava, they took other small ones and a lot more of the smallest ones". In this context "the smallest ones" has been interpreted as portable bombards (arquebuses). Handgunners are also mentioned at the Battle of Valea Alba in 1476 and at the Battle of Vaslui in 1475 when Stefan ordered his artilery, followed by the archers and handgunners to fire on the Ottoman army from three sides.

    During the XVIth century a new phase occured in the the development of artilery. The quality and number of artilery pieces in the Wallachian and Moldavian armies increased.

    The Moldavian voivode Petru Rares (1527 - 1546) acquired several artilery pieces from Genovese traders. In 1529 he fought alongside the Transilvanian prince Jan Zapolya at the battle of Feldioara. Historians mention the Moldavians had 50 heavy cannons and several more cannons with multiple barrels mounted on the same platform (known as ribaldequins). In 1531 the Moldavians were defeated by the Poles at the battle of Obertyn and the polish historian L. Bielski described that the Poles captured all of the 50 heavy cannons and smaller cannons with multiple barrels. These small cannons had between 6 and 8 barrels and once one barrel was ignited all the other ones would catch the spark and fire one after the other.

    During the XVth to XVIth centuries various types of gunpowder weapons were used in the principalities: bombards (heavy and light), culverins and arquebuses. The turkish historian Tur Sun Bey mentions that besides firearms the Moldavian army of the period used other types of warmachines, catapults and balistas to enforce the effect of the cannons.

    It must be noted that both Moldavians and Wallachians believed that the use of handguns against the enemy was a shameful thing. That is why handheld guns were only used by the Voivode's hunters and foreign mercenaries.

    The increase of the importance and power of gunpowder weapons deeply impacted on the army composition of the two principalities. As gunpowder weapons became more numerous in the armies of the time, foreign mercenaries started having a greater role starting with the late XVth century. More and more foreign mercenaries were employed by the voivodes of Wallachia and Moldavia and by the late XVIth century half of the army was composed of mercenaries.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Firearms in Balkans

    great article,
    plus, the cannons(and balistas of course) of Genua were made in his arsenal, it wasn't resale like the milanese armors.

    "When firing the cannons were mounted on wooden platforms."

    its why I would see intermediar cannons, setted on the chariots, well maybe it wasn't common in Balkans, but as I said, the Marseille's Militia used a kind of heavy chariot, named the "Monstrè"(Monster), with mini-ballistas, mini-cannons, and plenty of halberds fixed around. It was probably a caricature of polyvalence, but more simple stuff existed both of this big one.
    I imagine its irrelevant to create 20 new differents styles of chariots, but maybe its interesting to scan that: (very late, neverthless, )
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  14. #14
    Wallachian's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Firearms in Balkans

    Thank you. And wow that heavy charriot looks very interesting, would be very cool to see such a charriot in game (after we've seen Mr.Crow's warwagons who's to say what's next ). I can't say that I have heard of this type of machinery being used in the Balkan area. I imagine they would have been quite rare even in western armies wouldn't they?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Firearms in Balkans

    indeed, its was pretty rare, and a privilege for the big states and thalassocracies(Genua, Marseille, as far I know).
    Because all the pieces needed a constant attention, it was pretty expensive. The "Monster" of Marseille was probably unic.Several small city states(in Germany/Italy) used various kind of arranged cannons, according their capacities

    It was the last chance's solution to defend the comunal autonomy. As they weren't able to present thousands of good soldiers, they prefered spend they money in artillery's stuff.

  16. #16
    NikeBG's Avatar Sampsis
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    Default Re: Firearms in Balkans

    For Bulgaria, I've read that some Turkish annalist, while writing about the Ottoman conquests of the various Bulgarian fortresses, has mentioned about some primitive "cannons" (handguns maybe? I remember they were more feared because of their noise than the actual damage) and "grenades" (balls of clay, filled with gunpowder, tar and glass or metal pieces, which they could easily throw from the walls with a sling) being used by the garrisons. Tsar Ioan Shishman also supposedly asked for firearms from Dubrovnik, during his negotiations with Hungary in the 90s, but whether he received any (and what kind) is unknown.

  17. #17
    2Shy's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Firearms in Balkans

    Although there are no evidence about bulgarians using handgunns/artillery, one of the earliest references about ottomans using handgunns/artillery is during their campaign against the Karamanids in 1387, on which occasion the greater part of the ottoman army was composed by christian auxiliaries,but predominatly made up of the troops of the bulgarian vassal rullers.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Firearms in Balkans

    "Tsar Ioan Shishman also supposedly asked for firearms from Dubrovnik"
    I'm wondering if Ragusa produced his proper cannons, or if Venice provided it?

    "Karamanids in 1387"
    it wasn't so early about the cannons in Italia, 1340-1350 is probably reasonable for the first competent artillery and servers.

    what say wiki Italia:
    "primi decenni del XIV secolo"
    first decade of the 14th century.

    "Documenti ufficiali fiorentini del 1326 si riferiscono all'acquisto di "pilas seu palloctas ferreas et canones de mettallo".
    Some official documents of Florence refered to the....well, in bref they had cannons since this date.

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    Wallachian's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Firearms in Balkans

    Quote Originally Posted by 2Shy View Post
    Although there are no evidence about bulgarians using handgunns/artillery, one of the earliest references about ottomans using handgunns/artillery is during their campaign against the Karamanids in 1387, on which occasion the greater part of the ottoman army was composed by christian auxiliaries,but predominatly made up of the troops of the bulgarian vassal rullers.
    Hmm this is very interesting, what source is this from? Why I am asking is because I was reading the first post from pheonix which mentions that the first use of firearms by the Ottomans was in 1422 and that during Bayezid's siege of Constantinopole in 1396-1397 they still did not have firearms. Also, I knew that the Ottomans adopted gunpowder late because initially they did not like it from a religious point of view. Though, this might be the reason why they used the christian auxiliaries with gunpowder weapons.

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    2Shy's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Firearms in Balkans

    Ian Heath- Armies of the middle ages 2 :

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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