Necrons v. Tyranids: Who is the Bigger Threat?

[IZob]

Way to necro the Necron thread

Anyway, the previous (not the current) Tyranid Codex estimated that when the Orks and Tyranids finish fighting each other in sector ABC (cannot remember the name) the victor will emerge so powerful that they will literally have no obstacles in taking over the 40k universe. But its not know who will be the emerging victor.

I personally think that it is more likely the Tyranids will emerge victorious, since they are more cunning and deadly then the brute force Orks.

The codex also mentions, that if the Tyranids do succeed and defeating the Orks, Ork DNA would be well part of the Tyranid race, making the new Tyranids even more resistant and stronger then ever before.

If there is one thing the Tyranids do well, it is adapting to their surroundings and enemies. Destroying the Necrons should be no harder then destroying any other machine race.

[Strannix]

The Immediate threat would be Nids, long term however Crons all the way & I doubt the hive can survive a blast from the black stone fortress.

[Confederate Soldier]

In some fluff from a few years back, there is a footnote mention of something "chasing, pursing" or more or less just following the Nids. Many thought it to be the Necrons, but after the Newcrons was released, and if the footnote is still true, then I wonder if its not an even greater threat.

[hellheaven1987]

May be Tyranid is Malice's ultimate answer.

[Confederate Soldier]

Hah, considering that one of the makers of Malal showed pics of his daemons, and that they are all of insect aspects, I believe it may just be so.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[hellheaven1987]

I don't know... Currently Malal/Malice's goal is to destroy everything - Chaos and Order, which seems like the goal of Tyranid too.

[Carach]

malal was removed from fluff...

[Diocle]

IMO the Tyranids are overpowered ... they can destroy everything and then end of the fun ....

[Ciciro]

Warhammer 50k

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Theres nothing because the nids ate it all.

[Confederate Soldier]

malal was removed from fluff...

Malal/Malice, same thing, new name.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Mali...9#.Uy4vdIUfIfw

[hellheaven1987]

malal was removed from fluff...

Nope, it just changes to Malice and recently appearing of Sons of Malice only makes its existence official.

[Carach]

sons of malice?

expand please, because i havent heard of such stuff anywhere else....

[Confederate Soldier]

Sure, ill toss the lex link to them as well.

From memory, they are a space marine band(loyalist) who had the practice of cannibalism. Well, eventually a Inquisitor is in their chapel, and witnesses them eating flesh. I think later on, its nudged in the direction that their form of this act, is more depraved then those of other loyal bands. Regardless, they are listed for extermination. After fleeing, they eventually show up latter, at battles between the Imperium, and Chaos, attacking both sides. They DID however go on one of Abadaons black Crusades, in the hopes of retaking their home world.

They hate both the Imperium, and Chaos equally, and ever X amount of years, all are summoned to their "ship?" where they lock themselves inside rooms, with their (not sure whats a good word here) "slaves". At X time they then consume their "slave" alive, kicking and screaming. They follow Malice, the renegade Chaos god. Fun note, they are nearly complete with their scared mission of finding (11?)worthy brothers to become champions of Malice. Which means, they will be scar fices for him, to be able to enter into the material realm, and then they will go on, with their "god" at their side, and retake their home world once and for all. Oh, fun note, they DO use chaos daemons, as slaves, they somehow capture daemons of the other gods, and pain them black and white, and chain them up. Think of a daemonhost, but with a real daemon lol.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sons...e#.Uy_jGoUfIfw
Straight from the site incase you are on a phone that has problems opening links.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Overview

Kathal, Captain of the First Company of the Sons of Malice[1], led the chapter victory rites, which bordered on cannibalism, observed by Inquisitor Pietas, a senior member of the Ordo Hereticus. Although flesh-eating rituals are not uncommon among the Space Marines, Pietas was obviously unacquainted with the barbarous customs of Space Marines and mobilized a strike force of Adepta Sororitas Celestians to deal with the "heretics." The Sisters made planetfall right in the midst of the Company at the height of their celebrations. Kathal and his troops responded to the interference of their sacred Chapter rites by savagely attacking the strike force, defeating the Celestians. Kathal dragged the meddling Inquisitor before the chapter altar where she was ritually sacrificed.

The Sons of Malice were excommunicated and now reside within the Eye of Terror, from which they wage a hate-fueled war against the Imperium they see as betraying them, as much as against other followers of Chaos.

Their homeworld was Scelus, in the Cadian Sector, and the grisly tendencies which caused their excommunication were found to be rooted in the barbaric practices of the native, feral world population. These tribes were almost entirely eradicated by the Cadian 331st in a planet-wide campaign of genocide following the chapter's withdrawal into the Eye.

Scelus was declared Perdita. During Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade the Sons of Malice fought alongside the Chaos forces, trying to reclaim their homeworld.[2]

Kathal, who is now over 1000 years old, is the Sons' current Chapter Master. Every century the chapter returns to the Labyrinth, an old and scarred ship that has become the Chapter's holy ground and meeting place since the loss of their homeworld. Every warband attends at the correct time, regardless of their current status or who they are fighting. Slaves from every race encountered are then brought to the Labyrinth; each battle brother then retreats to a cell, where they eat alive the slave assigned to them. Every century, some Sons of Malice set off into the halls of the Labyrinth to compete for a place amongst the legendary Doomed Ones. Only one can make it to the end and escape; the rest will either die, or be transformed into the beasts that inhabit the ship as the Warp corrupts it. This challenge took place eleven times, eleven being Malice's sacred number, with each victor's body being stored in a casket until the final champion arose. The eleventh champion was Brother Invictus who, along with the other ten champions, was sacrificed so that Malice could appear and the Sons of Malice could begin their crusade to retake their homeworld.[Needs Citation]

[Carach]

yea but where except for lexi is this stuff from?

cos lexi isnt an entirely trustworthy source. Its not a source in itself.

From what i can tell there is one short story that features these sons of malice. and, despite not having read the ebook of it, i find it hard to believe that malal is back in fluff simply via this short story.

[Carl Jung was right]

The entire order vs. chaos moral dichotomy is something that puts me off about the recent fanbase interpretation of WH40k. I'm worried that the corporate heads of GW will pick up on this as a sign of a marketing shift, and retcon the entire franchise fluff, into another WoWesque, kid-friendly, good vs. evil, bowdlerized nightmare. The point being that nothing in the Warhammer universe is truly good or evil from an objective perspective, there's really no "right" side if you think about it.

The way I would like to view Malal cultiists, or Sons of Malice for that matter, is that they're essentially an insane Undivided warband that worships some obscure warp deity who is attacking all other chaos factions, either for excessively favoring one Chaos power, or simply for sheer lulz. After all why not make the great victimizers of all feel like victims for a change? To betray your own side, that is, attack chaos itself is just about as chaotic an act one can undertake, and these guys take this idea to its logical end. THAT I could understand. But the idea of a "fifth" Chaos god whose purpose is to just "go" after other Chaos gods just seems unnecessary and redundant to me at all. There's nothing about the idea of Malal itself that sets him apart, or gives him special qualities that aren't already present in other chaos powers or the Undivided itself.

Regarding the topic of this thread, I'd say Tyranids pose the far bigger threat. Why? Following Mutt Tard's ingenius retcon of the Necron canon, their image of an omnipresent, unassailable, existential threat to the universe has largely faded, or at least receded to a level not exceeding other "bad guy" factions, such as the Dark Eldar or Orks. Instead they're just your friendly, neighborhood homicidal robot faction. By giving them individual minds, voices, and knowable ends, it removed their aura of impenetrability, and turned them into just another alien group vying for domination of the universe. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but relatability comes at the cost of the sheer terror and repulsion that they used to elicit. The more you know about someone's intentions, origins and motivations, the less scary they appear to be.

Tyranids on the other hand still have what old-codex Necrons used to, but without the arguably weak and derivative C'tan backstory. To them, all life they encounter is just organic matter to be consumed. They are like a biological weapon that absorbs biomass, and out of the genetic material generates new types of bio-soldiers. It's the fact that you can't know the mind of a Tyranid (i.e. the Hive Mind), and that behind it is something entirely uncompromisable and utterly alien, which still makes them stand apart as the most chillingly terrifying faction of 40k.

[kesa82]

obviously both must have an Achilles heel .
Cannot be beat = dull. Total victory for anyone = franchise done.
Unless GW wants to kill off the franchise ---- not unheard of for a company to do that.
Otherwise it's safe to assume the happy stalemates will continue.

But I suppose the question really was, " Putting myself in the shoes of an Ork, a citizen of the Imperium or Tau, etc, which is the greater threat ? "

Well , each time a Necron is reconstituted he loses some IQ / personality. Immortality might not appear particularly attractive if it means to live on as a drone vegetable. maybe a reason why Necrons turned against the C'Tan, why some awakened tomb worlds do not go on a homicidal crusade but appear to become isolationists ? War means reconstitution, reconstitution may eventually mean loss of self .
It appears the original motive of the Necrontyr was a desire for more life, not hatred of all life but their own.
So there is the possibility there of some accommodation , some appeal to self interest.
Even if not, Necron victory does not necessarily mean game over. In Dark Crusade a human Archeologist was spared , transformed into a Necron.
Just as in Nazism there were "honorary Aryans " , there seems to be some give in the definition of Necron allowing for something other than complete annihilation for non-Necron.

Now what sort of accommodation do you reach with mosquitoes or cockroaches ( Tyranids ) ? Now here is a faction that even the most soft-hearted and liberal could practice zero-tolerance genocide on without shedding a single tear or the slightest hint of remorse.
And conceivably even the most implacable of enemies, with the most irreconcilable of differences , could make common cause against it .

[Ciciro]

Well no duh will the Tyranids not win. Sorta like how chaos or the imperials cant win. The game will never go past the 41st millennium.




(But tyranids would win if the timeline was allowed to expand)

[Edelfred]

this is the thread made by ignorance
Nids have sent the secondary fleets yet ,but it is known and sure they will wipe Imperium when they start the real thing

[Lordaeron55]

The Tyranids are stronger, they end up devouring everything D:

[Bobington]

I have not read much of this thread, but I think Orks are the biggest threat.