Generals NEED to be toned down.

[Czin]

I've never seen a guy like that in game that I know of. It actually sounds kind of fun, but I could see where the annoyance of the 'WILL YOU JUST DIE?!' could come in.

That many hit points would make him several times tougher than an Elephant. And I bet that general could kill an Elephant with his bare hands.

[Tears of Destiny]

That many hit points would make him several times tougher than an Elephant. And I bet that general could kill an Elephant with his bare hands.

Scary thing is, you could raise it another four HP by giving him the Holy Grail as well.

[Rakoua]

Funny thing is, I just use a few cheap javelinmen and spear militia and kill generals with low losses...

[Tears of Destiny]

Funny thing is, I just use a few cheap javelinmen and spear militia and kill generals with low losses...

I would appreciate a video of this, to see these "low Losses." Are we talking only a hundred or two losses?

[CelticAssassin]

Scary thing is, you could raise it another four HP by giving him the Holy Grail as well.

Idk I'm personally liking those holy relics that my generals can recieve.

@ Andytheplatypus. I didn't fail to kill the general by any means. I ended up dominating him and his army, I just thought it was crazy to lose as many units as I did.

[rusnmat]

Personally, I think that good solution is to reduce bodyguard units number by half. I usually play with large units scale. So Faction leader gets about 42-44 bodyguards, his heir 40, the basic FM 24 bodyguards. Firstly it doesn't make sence that every FM would have that many bodyguards in real life. Secondly, it completely disbalances the game. You can create an army with FL, his heir and another FM. This army will have over 110 very heavy cavalry that will rout everything in early era, and they will decimate half of the enemy at least. On the top of that, they will regenerate the next turn for free.
After editing EDU file, and reducing them in half, you'll get FL with 27 men, heir with 21 and regular FM with 12 which works much better. I recently edited EDU for Roz mods, the file has these changes :
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=391576
Also, I added 1~2 armor to bodyguards to reduce the chance of general being killed by xbow or archers ( to help out AI).

[CelticAssassin]

Personally, I think that good solution is to reduce bodyguard units number by half. I usually play with large units scale. So Faction leader gets about 42-44 bodyguards, his heir 40, the basic FM 24 bodyguards. Firstly it doesn't make sence that every FM would have that many bodyguards in real life. Secondly, it completely disbalances the game. You can create an army with FL, his heir and another FM. This army will have over 110 very heavy cavalry that will rout everything in early era, and they will decimate half of the enemy at least. On the top of that, they will regenerate the next turn for free.
After editing EDU file, and reducing them in half, you'll get FL with 27 men, heir with 21 and regular FM with 12 which works much better. I recently edited EDU for Roz mods, the file has these changes :
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=391576
Also, I added 1~2 armor to bodyguards to reduce the chance of general being killed by xbow or archers ( to help out AI).

That was my idea earlier just to reduce the amount of bodyguards and not the traits of the general. I think this works fine, and thank you for the link, this is what I was looking for and need no further help. + rep

I also went ahead and added rep to you Tears as I liked your #42 post and it gave me an answer I needed

[Tears of Destiny]

I also went ahead and added rep to you Tears as I liked your #42 post and it gave me an answer I needed

Awwwwwwwwwwwww your rep comment!

[Rakoua]

Depends on situation really. You can get 10-20 losses if the enemy charge is broken up. If the enemy bodyguard makes a direct charge, we're talking about 50 losses for a normal 25 men bodyguard. But I thought the problem was with single generals killing everyone? Just catch him standing still with a few javelins...

The bodyguard itself can't do kill more then say, a regular heavy cav unit like the feudal knights.

(on vh)

[Czin]

Scary thing is, you could raise it another four HP by giving him the Holy Grail as well.

How many levels are there to the trait set that "Naturally robust" is the first of? And can't you raise it even further (by +2) with that fancy crown relic thing?

[Meneth]

It's not a trait-set, it's a single, stand-alone trait.

[Czin]

It's not a trait-set, it's a single, stand-alone trait.

Ah I see, I was expecting it to have levels.

[CelticAssassin]

Depends on situation really. You can get 10-20 losses if the enemy charge is broken up. If the enemy bodyguard makes a direct charge, we're talking about 50 losses for a normal 25 men bodyguard. But I thought the problem was with single generals killing everyone? Just catch him standing still with a few javelins...

The bodyguard itself can't do kill more then say, a regular heavy cav unit like the feudal knights.

(on vh)

You're correct in that the problem was the single general. However after reading the various comments from Meneth it appears that it is for the best that the general has those traits. However by removing the bodyguards it indirectly helps the issue, in that instead of my javelin men or the sort focusing on his 40 something bodyguards they only have to focus on, say, 20 something and him allowing more missile fire on the leader. So it seems to be the best solution despite it being an indirect one.

[Ichon]

I thought tests done reducing AI BG sizes showed AI still charged them into spearmen etc?

If I have time I might try testing generals with slightly reduced size BG but low charge and melee attack but very high defense. So the BG will be hard for AI to lose but won't make them the most important units for players or AI in a battle outside of the morale effects that generals carry on them.

The whole BG doesn't have the extra HP- just the general. Many battles I've found devoting 2-3 horse javelins and a HC to hunting down the general are able to kill off the BG very easily but once in awhile that many units will kill BG fast in the first 1/4 but then spend the next 1/2 of the battle chasing the single general. The final 1/4 is just moping up after general is killed. It can be slightly annoying but then the battles where general dies quick are also disappointing.

For now I think its good enough at least for survivability of the AI generals. The situations where the general just keeps killing and killing despite surrounded by 100 men are very rare and if you take precautions can still be mostly avoided. It makes for an occasional "legendary" champion or an annoying outcome but more often than not lets the AI escape its general from at least 1 stupid charge though the rest of the BG will die so the general is not as useful a unit.

[Ichon]

Would be nice if CA makes it in the future that generals have only much morale effects near the max of their command rating or chivalry/dread traits. The command rating should affect more how many units can participate in a battle or the size of the deployment zone, use of logistics so command rating increase movement points etc.

Then a 10 command general might get +50% movement vs no general, consume less supplies(lower upkeep for units under command) be able to deploy into half the battle map, and command 25 units in a battle vs 15-20 for a stack with no general. Every 1-2 command points adds a unit able to participate. The morale effects for max chivalry and command would be at most +4, so 2 morale per 5 levels.

[Maltacus]

How about an artillery (if possible) or missile infantry bodyguard? That would make the ai keep their leader at the back. An artillery bodyguard could have some kind of carrocio standard-like wagon and symbolize some of the supply train that the army is carrying as well. The realism would suffer as most nations had mounted retinues for their commanders but some may like it.

Can cavalry units be given artillery pieces, by the way?

[Gogolometro]

Yes. Look in mod workshop.

[Maltacus]

In that case, generals could have a cavalry bodyguard and a couple of "supply wagons" (carrocio standards or whatever). That should make the ai treat it like a ballista or something and keep it behind the lines, while a player could detach the "artillery pieces" and have a mobile bodyguard. How does that sound?

[Tears of Destiny]

In that case, generals could have a cavalry bodyguard and a couple of "supply wagons" (carrocio standards or whatever). That should make the ai treat it like a ballista or something and keep it behind the lines, while a player could detach the "artillery pieces" and have a mobile bodyguard. How does that sound?

It sounds awesome, and impossible.
The AI will abandon artillery that does not have ammo.
Actually, the troops automatically abandon artillery that does not have ammo, regardless of if it is player or AI owned.

[k/t]

Maybe giving it actual cannons to hold on to, with 300 ammo, a 0 attack and 15 range, will make the unit not abandon the artillery, but the AI will move its troops forward and leave the general wide open; that's what it always does when it has actual artillery.