Generals NEED to be toned down.

[Jambat]

Or you could make the general weak and stay behind enemy lines for morale...... seeing as that's what they did and all.

That's impossible with the current technology. The only real options would either be to keep it exactly the same or weaken them while boosting the enemies morale through the roof so they will never run since an 'average' general is dogmeat to any unit worth a damn.

Just wait until you get Pikemen, sometimes I swear those guys have a baggage cart full of dead generals armor and banners drug behind them. 'Pikemen, gasp! I...must...charge!'

[Wolfie]

Is it possible for the generals to be toned down a bit..and give all his troops morale bonuses?

[Gogolometro]

My suggestion is to add some general killer specialists in any army. This mean crossbows, horse archers, javelins and mounted javelins. All will say wow that general killed half of my army alone. Ok, you need just munted acritae, jinites, breton cavalry, turkomans, almugavars, pavise crossbows. Any of them can kill generals. No need to make anything than encircle enemy army and hit them in the back. Job done, and you are free to kill their army. But why to use simple solution and try worse case scenario, lets mod SS.

[worldsdead]

i agree that it sucks that ai generals are so strong. BUT: i agree that it's the best that can be done. i also play on vh/vh, and my dread genrals still own, but when i kill ai general the ai routes without even being engaged, lol. like bane said and mega hand fed you this has been mentioned probally 100's of times. i personally endorse breton cav. nice little mercs in northern france.

[SoCCo]

not another thread about AI generals.
pls learn how to use units and battle tactics. you can't hope that trebuches will blast a hole into Constantinopole's walls and expect them to fall like they did when the ottomans used cannons. same goes for your suicidal light cavalery charge against an enemy general that is 10 times stronger than his bodyguards and may have traits that will make him even stronger. keep light cavalery for archers, crossbow units, or to chase routing enemies, you don't use those against heavy inf/cav or spears.

[Meneth]

So I understand that it is much harder to prevent a general from charging in the first place than to make him last longer when he does charge. Nevertheless, I would like to see you guys challenge yourself into making this a reality.

It is quite literally impossible for us to do so. Those aspects of the AI are, AFAIK, hardcoded.
The only possibility I see, is making all heavy cavalry, which would include generals, almost never charge, but that definitely wouldn't be an improvement.
The only ones with the ability, and the legal rights, to change it are CA, and they apparently won't do it.

[Czin]

Assassins are your friend. Pesky Generals no problem for dagger in back, or snake in bed, or dart in neck, or poison in stomach. You buy Assassins now, yes? You buy or Yuri break legs.

A general with even a few personal security increasing traits can reduce even a Subterfuge 10 assassin's chance of success down to >%40. And spamming low subterfuge assassins would only increase the difficulty of Assassinating him as he racks up personal security increasing traits. No the best way is to use horse archers, his bodyguard will never catch up and he'll be quickly arrow'd to death.

[CelticAssassin]

My suggestion is to add some general killer specialists in any army. This mean crossbows, horse archers, javelins and mounted javelins. All will say wow that general killed half of my army alone. Ok, you need just munted acritae, jinites, breton cavalry, turkomans, almugavars, pavise crossbows. Any of them can kill generals. No need to make anything than encircle enemy army and hit them in the back. Job done, and you are free to kill their army. But why to use simple solution and try worse case scenario, lets mod SS.

Well if you had read any of my posts before hand you would realize that I DID indeed have a unit specifically for this task. The desert calvary butchered the totality of bodyguards, AND wounded him to the point where it looked like he had a few more hits before he was down. AND THEN on top of that I charged him from the flank AND then after seeing I lost 10 or something men, I attempted to utilize my crusader knights, by once again charging him from the flank. Please read before posting as it avoids me needing to re-explain myself.

[CelticAssassin]

not another thread about AI generals.
pls learn how to use units and battle tactics. you can't hope that trebuches will blast a hole into Constantinopole's walls and expect them to fall like they did when the ottomans used cannons. same goes for your suicidal light cavalery charge against an enemy general that is 10 times stronger than his bodyguards and may have traits that will make him even stronger. keep light cavalery for archers, crossbow units, or to chase routing enemies, you don't use those against heavy inf/cav or spears.

Read my above post where I was replying to the other guy. Learn to read please it helps us all out.

[Meneth]

Desert cavalry has what? 6 javelins? They're not particularly high-quality either, their attack value is only 10, while several other javelin units have attack values ranging from 11 to 13.
A big factor is also what direction you hit the general from. In front, the flank, or behind. Attacking from behind makes a lot of difference.
And you seem to have not bothered to read many of the posts in this thread:
The generals need to be strong so that they don't get killed at all the time, since the AI isn't smart enough to protect them.
And no, modders can't fix that.

[CelticAssassin]

Desert cavalry has what? 3 javelins? Try using something with a bit more ammo
And you seem to have not bothered to read many of the posts in this thread:
The generals need to be strong so that they don't get killed at all the time, since the AI isn't smart enough to protect them.
And no, modders can't fix that.

Well 60 x 3 = 180.... so I assumed that was more than enough ammo for a unit consisting of, what? 20 men?
I have read all the of the other posts in this thread and haven't seen where I disagreed with that. However can't you possibly remove the amount of traits that boost health for the Generals or remove the amount of bodyguards in a unit?

[Czin]

Since Lancers and Gerndames apparently have enough armor to pretty much just waltz through Swiss pikes on an uphill frontal charge and then promptly murder said pikemen (or at least they did by 6.2 if I'm reading the I am Skantarios AAR correctly) I'd like to know which factions have Generals with a similar amount of armor, since some general bodyguards (not to mention the 26 hit point monstrosity with fine armor [+4], an apothecary [+4], brutally scarred [+8], hale and hearty [+3], Berserker [+4] and naturally robust [+1] himself) appear to be better at OMFGWALLHAXing their way through what should be a cavalry proof wall of pikemen with the high ground. In a game as the Holy Roman Empire a Turkish General (twas a Jihad on German held Toledo) with the above traits and his bodyguard and Qapukulus once managed to eat my Swiss Pikemen mercenaries despite them having every possible advantage, then he slaughtered his way through my musketeers and lead his men to bring on a crushing defeat. The second time I fought him I had to hit him with a friggin' Mangonel while tying him down with not so expendable Pikemen.

[Meneth]

Well 60 x 3 = 180.... so I assumed that was more than enough ammo for a unit consisting of, what? 20 men?
I have read all the of the other posts in this thread and haven't seen where I disagreed with that. However can't you possibly remove the amount of traits that boost health for the Generals or remove the amount of bodyguards in a unit?

The generals need their health bonuses, or they'll die too easily.

Since Lancers and Gerndames apparently have enough armor to pretty much just waltz through Swiss pikes on an uphill frontal charge and then promptly murder said pikemen (or at least they did by 6.2 if I'm reading the I am Skantarios AAR correctly) I'd like to know which factions have Generals with a similar amount of armor, since some general bodyguards (not to mention the 26 hit point monstrosity with fine armor [+4], an apothecary [+4], brutally scarred [+8], hale and hearty [+3], Berserker [+4] and naturally robust [+1] himself) appear to be better at OMFGWALLHAXing their way through what should be a cavalry proof wall of pikemen with the high ground. In a game as the Holy Roman Empire a Turkish General (twas a Jihad on German held Toledo) with the above traits and his bodyguard and Qapukulus once managed to eat my Swiss Pikemen mercenaries despite them having every possible advantage, then he slaughtered his way through my musketeers and lead his men to bring on a crushing defeat. The second time I fought him I had to hit him with a friggin' Mangonel while tying him down with not so expendable Pikemen.

Fully upgraded NE and ME Bodyguards have a defense value of 35. Lancers have a defense value of 31.

[CelticAssassin]

The generals need their health bonuses, or they'll die too easily.


Fully upgraded NE and ME Bodyguards have a defense value of 35. Lancers have a defense value of 31.

I meant limit the amount of traits. Yes, I understand that you don't want to get rid of them all together however would it not be plausible to reduce the amount they can receive?

[Meneth]

I haven't seen any problems except in extreme cases, like the one Czin notes.

[stevehoos]

Well 60 x 3 = 180.... so I assumed that was more than enough ammo for a unit consisting of, what? 20 men?
I have read all the of the other posts in this thread and haven't seen where I disagreed with that. However can't you possibly remove the amount of traits that boost health for the Generals or remove the amount of bodyguards in a unit?

Did you read any of the posts in this thread explaining why this is not a good idea? For one who claims shortcomings in others reading comprehension skills you sure seem to be missing the gist here.

[Czin]

I haven't seen any problems except in extreme cases, like the one Czin notes.

And didn't you already nerf Hale and hearty which used to give you a maximum of six extra hit points but now only grants you three at most, and getting to that maximum is nigh on impossible?

[CelticAssassin]

Did you read any of the posts in this thread explaining why this is not a good idea? For one who claims shortcomings in others reading comprehension skills you sure seem to be missing the gist here.

And you seem to miss my point as well. I am not requesting the removal of ALL health traits, but to instead limit, reasonably, the amount they can receive so as to not have to fight generals with a million health points. (Yes, yes, I know I'm exaggerating, but you get the gist.) So yes I did read the posts, and yes I do comprehend what was stated. So there is nothing wrong with MY reading abilities.

Also what was wrong with wolfie's suggestion?

[Meneth]

And didn't you already nerf Hale and hearty which used to give you a maximum of six extra hit points but now only grants you three at most, and getting to that maximum is nigh on impossible?

I have no idea. It's been years since I played Vanilla last, and I've only been on the dev team since after the release of 6.3.

[bɑne]

Can't even find the difficulty mentioned so that is where my wondering starts, not to mention modversion, fixes and used submods.

CelticAssassin, answer that or please quote where you answered already. You want your generals nerfed, well then you have to give a hand as well. I won't write ways to do that for all possible versions out there.