Claiming territory - a new proposal

[removeduser_487563287433]

Hi all,

As you know Aanker has been doing an excellent job in establishing the rules of PvP and Kingdoms on the server and that people have already been able to claim territories of their Kingdoms and City States, but we have yet to really clarify how claiming territory will work and how individual members of a Kingdom will be able to "own" territory within that Kingdom - this is important as people may wish to join and leave Kingdoms at certain points.

Aanker and I have discussed and have a proposal ready for the forum's input. The map will be divided up into small territorial units called "counties". At the centre of each county will be a construction - a fort, tower, outpost, town, whatever you please.

There will be three types of county:

Home Counties will be the main base of an individual player - their stronghold and fortress. These cannot change hands and are always occupied by the person who constructed them.

Border counties are "owned" by an individual player, but can be occupied by other Kingdoms if that player is a member of a Kingdom at war.

Wilderness Counties will be very large, strategically placed areas on the map. They could represent particular mountain ranges, islands, roads, bridges and other areas of interest. They can be occupied by Kingdoms and fought over. Kingdoms and City States will be able to claim Wilderness Counties by building an outpost of some sort in them - but only one outpost will be permitted per Wilderness County. If more than one construction exists, then one will be designated the outpost.

Each individual player will be permitted ownership of one Home County and three Border Counties. So a Kingdom of three players would be made up of three Home Counties and nine Border Counties. Each individual is considered to always "own" the same border counties, even when occupied by other Kingdoms.

Each Kingdom will initially only be allowed to claim two Wilderness Counties to prevent land-grabbing, but this will increase in time to a probably an unlimited number.

The aim of these changes is to:

1) Clearly define how land transfer will work
2) Allow detailed territory maps
3) Allow individuals to leave and join Kingdoms easily

Hopefully this will allow PvP more clear and allow a new range of diplomatic possibilities. For example, a peace treaty will now be able to include the return of any occupied counties or demand that a player and their counties switch allegiance.

I would appreciate all input, and especially I would appreciate if people posted the map with detailed labeling of their outposts and what they may like to consider their Home and Border Counties.

[Aanker]

I would like to note that the home counties would most likely encompass most of the territories now claimed by kingdoms, so you wouldn't have to be afraid to lose all those beautiful mountains and gorges right beside your castle that you claimed in the kingdoms thread. Of course, some players (without getting into specifics) have claimed far too much land in proportion to the size of their kingdoms/city states, and might have to reconsider the extent of their owned land.

Other than that, I believe that this proposal can largely simplify current territorial issues.

Also, it is important not to make the wilderness regions too large, or city-states might expand to cover the whole map (and thus make PvP largely unfeasible).

[Katsumoto]

This sounds like a good plan. War has also been made clearer since now we know what lands can and cannot be conquered. I have only the Home County as of yet, which is already marked out on the Kingdoms Map by the Empire of the Sun's borders.

[Manco]

Good initiative, we need some sort of systematic approach as some areas are getting really crowded. I'll read it more thoroughly later before I give any comments though.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I may change the rules so that only Kingdoms will be able to claim Wilderness Counties.

Also, depending very much on the quantity of extant constructions, current Kingdoms will probably be a mix of border and home counties, but people need to label all their constructions on the map.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I will warn that counties will be small for the most part and Kingdom border may change slightly, but I expect the majority of people to be happy. I will shortly post an example of how it would work with my own City State.

[Dewy]

Sounds good, can't really think of anything to add. Nice job ferrets and Aanker

My home country/border country (depending if you think if it is to big) is that place I marked out in green mmm kay?

EDIT: I like the idea that only kingdoms can claim wilderness countries.

[crossjon]

A few questions:
one, can home countries be attacked, just not taken?
two, do things like outposts to mark and watch borders count as border countries?

other then those, sounds good. Now I just need minecraft to work so I can get working on this.

[Aanker]

A few questions:
one, can home countries be attacked, just not taken?
two, do things like outposts to mark and watch borders count as border countries?

other then those, sounds good. Now I just need minecraft to work so I can get working on this.

The home countries of players belonging to kingdoms can be attacked - yes - but they cannot be taken.

If you have built an outpost near what you could easily consider as your home county, then yes, that would be a great position to base your border territories on.

[removeduser_487563287433]

A few questions:
one, can home countries be attacked, just not taken?

Can't see why not.

two, do things like outposts to mark and watch borders count as border countries?

Not sure I understand this question.

[crossjon]

Not sure I understand this question.

if I were to build an outpost (just like a simple tower) on a lake to mark that the lake is my property, would that be a border country?

[Doyle141]

He means do border markers, removed from the home county, count as border counties?

[removeduser_487563287433]

if I were to build an outpost (just like a simple tower) on a lake to mark that the lake is my property, would that be a border country?

That would essentially be the idea, yes, except I intend to propose that water not be counted as territory unless we can identify strategic straits and islands to control them.

[Doyle141]

That would essentially be the idea, yes, except I intend to propose that water not be counted as territory unless we can identify strategic straits and islands to control them.

Islands, eh?

[crossjon]

That would essentially be the idea, yes, except I intend to propose that water not be counted as territory unless we can identify strategic straits and islands to control them.

except people could easily just build the islands or straits necessary. I should know considering I just built an island yesterday.

[Doyle141]

except people could easily just build the islands or straits necessary. I should know considering I just built an island yesterday.

They're harder to build than you think, ye tart

[Makrell]

That would essentially be the idea, yes, except I intend to propose that water not be counted as territory unless we can identify strategic straits and islands to control them.

Well someone seem to be building islands, and i make ships. cant i claim that land. So i cna make a ship in the middle of the lake before herorot and you couldbt say a thing

[removeduser_487563287433]

Okay guys, here's how it would work as an example from my own City State - please excuse the MS Paint nonsense, I am short on time.



The red dot is Grafsham - my largest fortress and what I would consider my Home County.

The yellow dots represent the outposts that control my Border Counties. Heorot to the far west and two yet-unbuilt outposts on the coast between Heorot and Grafsham.

The black dot is a manor that has been built by Jom.

When considering the territory controlled by each outpost I have tried to be sensible and not greedy. For example, as my Home County Grafsham can control a bit more territory than a Border County. It sits on a hill on a peninsular and can be considered as to be controlling the land directly about it and on neighbouring shores.

Heorot is build on a mountain overlooking a bay. As a Border County it controls less territory than Grafsham but still over looks the bay and visible territory. It also cannot extent its territory too far because to the North is the March of Jom and to the South is the world's ugliest building ever.

The land in between is quite large, and needs two Border Counties. These outposts control the strip of coast, but do not control the huge forest to the south - marked in green. As such a huge natural feature, this would be difficult to control and is a natural example of what I would consider a Wilderness County.

This is an example of how I would like you to consider breaking up your current territories. You shouldn't have huge swathes of land assigned to one Home County - it needs to be based on some common sense to prevent the overcrowding we are already seeing, but you will not lose territory because of the addition of Border Counties.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Well someone seem to be building islands, and i make ships. cant i claim that land. So i cna make a ship in the middle of the lake before herorot and you couldbt say a thing

I am completely happy for a ship to be considered the outpost controlling any county. But if you built a ship in front of Heorot that would be a territory violation like any other - people will still have to use common sense.

[Makrell]

That would mnake it quite easy for large nations such as ours to claiim a lot of land. THe land alreaady occupied is only about 3 home countries and a boorder construction