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Thread: Alexander Invades China?

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    Tom Crooze's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Alexander Invades China?

    What do you think would have happened if Alexander the Great had not gotten Typhoid, conquered India, and then moved on to Han China?

    I believe he would return to Macedon in shame. Mainly because to get to China, his force would have to pass the Himalayas, which would probably kill a good chunk of his men. Then, when he finally got to China, he'd have a hard time fighting the larger Chinese armies with his tired, injured men. Soon his generals would force him to give up, and they'd return home to Macedon, defeated and battered.

  2. #2
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    He probably would not know China at all...
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    Tom Crooze's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    If he conquered India, he'd probably hear stories about it and it's silk.

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    Magno's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    I'd doubt he'd be able to get an army across the Himalayas (pull of a Hannibal) and if so maintaining an empire streching three continents is nearly impossible, however if he did get through the himalayas i have no doubt in my mind that he'd pwn china
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  5. #5
    Lysimachus's Avatar Spirit Cleric
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    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeasentsSuck View Post
    What do you think would have happened if Alexander the Great had not gotten Typhoid, conquered India, and then moved on to Han China?

    I believe he would return to Macedon in shame. Mainly because to get to China, his force would have to pass the Himalayas, which would probably kill a good chunk of his men. Then, when he finally got to China, he'd have a hard time fighting the larger Chinese armies with his tired, injured men. Soon his generals would force him to give up, and they'd return home to Macedon, defeated and battered.
    Firstly, how would he have conquered India? Secondly, why would he go to China afterwards?

    If we're going to discuss alternate history, we need to make sure it's even remotely possible.

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    Manuel I Komnenos's Avatar Rex Regum
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    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeasentsSuck View Post
    If he conquered India, he'd probably hear stories about it and it's silk.
    It would be impossible to conquer India considering the vast amount of land and manpower it possessed..
    When Alexander faced Porus, just a moderate-powered Indian King he was troubled because of the vast number of men and elephants he had to face and his army had severe casualties.
    Assuming he had won all the Kings of India, he wouldn't be able to maintain effective control of this country with his small army.. He would have to put garrisons everywhere thus weakening his army..
    Assuming he somehow managed this and invaded China it would have been impossible to supply his army with food and new recruits with mainland Greece being unreachable, he would have to rely on Persian and Indian soldiers with doubted combat effectiveness..
    Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
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    ~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917

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    Tom Crooze's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel I Komnenos View Post
    It would be impossible to conquer India considering the vast amount of land and manpower it possessed..
    When Alexander faced Porus, just a moderate-powered Indian King he was troubled because of the vast number of men and elephants he had to face and his army had severe casualties.
    Assuming he had won all the Kings of India, he wouldn't be able to maintain effective control of this country with his small army.. He would have to put garrisons everywhere thus weakening his army..
    Assuming he somehow managed this and invaded China it would have been impossible to supply his army with food and new recruits with mainland Greece being unreachable, he would have to rely on Persian and Indian soldiers with doubted combat effectiveness..
    I agree, he would have to rely on Auxiliaries if he did invade china. But I suppose Alexander might, at the very least, been able to take control of northern India.

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    Lysimachus's Avatar Spirit Cleric
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    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeasentsSuck View Post
    I agree, he would have to rely on Auxiliaries if he did invade china. But I suppose Alexander might, at the very least, been able to take control of northern India.
    Due to his diminishing army (in fact at this stage I believe some of the men in his Companion Cavalry were Persians), their infamiliarity with the Indian climate and the numeric strength of the Indians it really is doubtful if he could have even done that. Him having to turn back at this point was definitely the better thing to do despite the attrition he suffered marching across the Gedrosian Desert.

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    Tom Crooze's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    So, what if say, Alexander returns to Greece without getting Typhoid, recruits a new Army, then makes a second shot to India, then China?

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    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    still not enough soldiers


    @hellheaven greeks knew something about china

  11. #11
    Lysimachus's Avatar Spirit Cleric
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    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeasentsSuck View Post
    So, what if say, Alexander returns to Greece without getting Typhoid, recruits a new Army, then makes a second shot to India, then China?
    Seeing as these were crack Macedonian phalangites, they're not the kind of troops you can just put together overnight. These men had been well-drilled back in Macedonia and had then had combat experience which nobody else would have ever had. These were men who were simply the elite, and in fact would continue to fight in to their later life;

    "Alexander's best Macedonians in India were often over sixty, but they fought on for another ten years, still terrorizing their opponents. After his death they were prepared to fight fellow Macedonians, especially if attacking younger Macedonians from the 'new intake' who had never served the great Alexander." (The Classical World, Robin Lane Fox, p.247)

    Adrian Goldsworthy refers to a similar case in regards to the Third Macedonian War too:
    The conflict was to prove almost the last gasp of teh generation of Romans which had fought adn defeated Hannibal. When the army destined to serve in Macedonia was enrolled the presiding consul sought out as many veteran officers and soldiers as possible. Livy tells us that a dispute arose when twenty-three former senior centurions were enrolled as ordinary centurions. The spokesman of the group, Spurius Ligustinus, is said to have made a speech recounting his long and distinguished serive and was eventually given the post of senior centurion of the triarii of Legio I. The others agreed to accept whatever rank was given to them, and it is notable that the Senate had decreed that no citizen below the age of 51 was to be granted an exemption from service should the consul and tribunes choose to conscript them. The army sent to Macedonia was experienced, if in some cases a little elderly, and may well have included a number of men, who like Ligustinus, had served in the area before. (In the Name of Rome, p.85)

    Raising a new army even as remotely capable as the one Alexander fought with would have taken years and it would have taken the momentum out of his advance in to India completely since it would have gave them years to prepare adequate defences; the Indus is a good defensive obstacle and is deeper and wider than the one Alexander faced at the Hydaspes River so it would be dangerous to advance across it against a well prepared enemy.

    @hellheaven greeks knew something about china
    I doubt it. Eratosthenes who constructed a map of the world after Alexander's conquests incorporated India in to his work but there's no reference to China of any sorts. You're probably getting them mixed up with Rome.

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    Last edited by Lysimachus; December 21, 2010 at 09:28 AM.

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    knight of virtue and valor's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    well, I actually think that he could beat the shiz out of china, but ONLY if he could get an army that far, and even than, he would need to recruit new blood into his army, and that would take him years, if they were to be as well trained as his orginal army. part of the reason he had to turn back is because those guys had been fighting in all sorts of god forsaken places and suffered a huge amount of hard ship, and they had frankly been doing longer than is reasonable to ask even the toughest of soldiers to do.
    "WE WILL SMITE THE INVADERS FROM OUR SKIES! Though they sweep over our lands like the sands of winter, never again will we bow before them; never again endure their oppression; never again endure their tyranny. We will strike without warning and without mercy, fighting as one hand, one heart, one soul. We will shatter their dreams and haunt their nightmares, drenching our ancestors' graves with their blood. And as our last breath tears at their lungs; as we rise again from the ruins of our cities...they will know: Helghan belongs to the Helghast." -Scholar Visari

  13. #13

    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    A mini scenario:

    If Alexander conqered India, he would probabaly be happy with his conquest, work on stabilizing his empire (it would take a lots of effort). And finally, when his dies, his appointed heir - let's assume that the heir is much more of a dreadfull, ruthless, iron-fisted ruler than a weak-minded fool - takes command, and decides to expand to China. He can't make it across the Himalayas, and if he can, he suffers heavy losses, returns with two things - a weakened army and some experience.
    So he decides to expand his empire Westwards. He quickly conquers Italy, Morocco and Iberia, and plans to expand to Britain, France and Germany. His attempts are sucesfull, and now he turns to trade and road-building projects. From the warm lands of India to the forests of Germany and islands of Britain, he rules over a large empire.
    His superior rule brings Hellenistic culture and Greek language to India, Egypt, Mesopotamia, Italy, Germany, North Africa, Britain and France.
    But soon he faces a new challange.
    He is ill, and has no suitable heir. When he dies without selecting a heir, his empire splits up.
    In France, Germany, Britain , Iberia, Northwest Africa and Italy, the Latoids (Hellenized Latins) take power.
    Greece falls to anarchy and returns to the old Polis-system.
    In Egypt, the Ptolemids take power.
    In the Middle East, the Selucids take power.
    In India, an unknown general, Dimitros Tibanidos takes power, stabilizes his rule and creates a strong and stable empire.
    He even maanges to build ships and use them to invade China. He prefers navy over infantry, which makes him unpopular among soldiers. His men (escapaly foot soldiers and cavalrymen) follow him out of fear, not loyality. When they take China, they grow crazy about the riches of the lands. Plundering, pillaging, orgy of killing.
    China is under Greek rule, but not for so long.
    Chinese people openly resist Greek religion and Greek culture, but seem to welcome the Greek alphabet.
    Greek rule over China doesen't end till about 100 AD.

    Hope you like it

  14. #14
    Manuel I Komnenos's Avatar Rex Regum
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    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    In fact only one Greek King managed to capture half of India and that was Menander, the King of the Hellenistic Kingdom of India..
    Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
    "Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
    ~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917

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    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    A foray into China would have been a disaster.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    Even if he did conquer India would he have been able to hold it? Lets not for Maurya Chandragupta. Without India he would have a tough time getting to China.

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    Archraze's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    He would have to go through India first which methinks would be impossable for him to conquer. If he did get to china somehow he would lack men suplies, far away from home and he wouldn't be able to fight.

    So Alexander can't get to China and if he did he couldn't beat them.

  18. #18
    Blatta Optima Maxima's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    I too wonder, why you all automatically asume he'd conquer India. The most probable version is that he'd be defeated and killed there.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    Alexander was quite frankly a genius concerning military matters. But even this would be a step to far, his genius would have only carried him so far, the supply lines would have been too great and there's no way he would have resupplied his army with men in the likelihood of fatalities, not to mention his army was already rebelling at the thought of continuing into India, which is the main reason why he decided to turned back.



    PS, where the Indians that powerful back then? Weren't most of them broken up tribes and smallish kingdoms? If Alexander could conquer the Persians he would conquer the Indians. As far as I'm aware the Chiese at this point were of an equal footing with Europe and would have offered stiffer resistance.

  20. #20
    Erebus Pasha's Avatar vezir-i âzam
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    Default Re: Alexander Invades China?

    Alexander was a military genius but any further incursion into India would've been a step too far, let alone any attempt on China.

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