[Public Research] Russia

[Ataegina]

Here you can help GNW development by sharing here all the information/research regarding Russia, from russian names to family tree, to titles, to units (faction roster), audio material, visual references (video/images) and misc. information.

Note: information must be compatible with the mod time-frame (1700-1735).

* we're currently using Danova "poltava pack units"

[jjja494]

Well I seem to be the first one on the Russian research topic but I found this really nice post about the Russian armies and Peter the Greats modernizing of the armies:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Peter the Great is reported to have wept over the defeat near Narva November 1700. He wanted to modernize his military. The core of the most modern armies was artillery and a disciplined infantry with rifles, which was supposed to advance while firing and then charge with fixed bayonets. Such armies were the product of training, mathematics for the artillery, and a more advanced economy than Russia had. Peter's army had been more cavalry, of nobles, than it had been infantry. His officer corps had been largely generaled by foreign mercenaries, with nobles filling out the rest of the officer corps. Peter saw the need for better arms, better training, and a great number of recruits.



To enlarge his army, Peter offered good pay for those who would volunteer to join. But, unable to attract a great number of young men, he resorted to the conscription of men from all classes. Debt slaves freed by the death of their owner were forbidden to contract themselves to a new master and were enlisted as soldiers and sailors. Peter created a census to keep better track of who was available. Landlords were obliged to submit a list of those working their lands and to supply the army with one peasant soldier for every 50 peasant households and one cavalryman for every 100 peasant households on their lands. Some recruits were obliged to serve in the military for life. Peter created a regular standing army of more than 200,000, with Special Forces of Cossacks and foreigners numbering more than 100,000, and he raised taxes to pay for his military. During Peter's reign, eighty to eighty-five percent of his revenues would go to his army and his war efforts.



Peter had no use for precise parade-ground military drilling, for fencing practice or for the elaborate and splendid uniforms of western soldiers. He was concerned with instilling confidence and a sense of purpose into his army. He tried to instill nationalist pride in his army, telling them that they were not going to fight for him but for the interests of Russia.



His mind still on an approaching showdown with Sweden, Peter, a religious man, melted down church bells to help replace cannon lost at Narva. He ordered more prospecting for metals and more iron-smelting. Ships were constructed and launched, and sailcloth was manufactured.



The Russian State was an enigma to most of Europe and little was known about it. It was looked on as a backward place full of savages. Contemporary European views of Russia were a mixture of fear and contempt. The Russians were keen to dispel these myths and to prove their country was modern, progressive and a major power in Europe.



In practise the Russian military machine lumbered erratically in to action and at the start of the war only a hastily scraped together force was ready and in the correct place. In addition to this the Russians had just undertaken a major military reorganisation that had still not fully been implemented. The end result was much confusion, disorganisation and delay.



The Russian infantry was known for its solidity but was not particularly well drilled. The cavalry had just undergone a complete reorganisation just before the Seven Years War but gave a good, if uninspired, account of itself. The artillery was well drilled and equipped with the gunners having a fanatical devotion to their pieces. The Russian high command was variable – from fairly good to traitorous incompetents.



This is an army for those who prefer solidity over dash. It was said that you not only had to kill a Russian but you had to tell him he was dead as well!



None of the guard troops served outside Russia but they could have been (in particular if Peter had lived - there must have been a reasonable chance he would have become personally involved).

[Ataegina]

Thanks for the info

[garudamon11]

From that I could say Russians should have high HP but low morale and should march slower than swedish infantry, Russia should be poor and more dependent on cavalry at the start, Russian infantry should be better at melee but have a low ammunition and low accuracy as well

[jjja494]

I agree with Garudamon11, but you should also add more men per unit for the Russians, and less for the Swedish.

[Ataegina]

something like 10-20 more man per unit compared to sweden ? i.e 100 sweden / 120 russia for same unit type .

[Mr. Sorrow]

I think that the ratio 120 Swedish to 150 Russian in a unit sounds a bit better...It is 4:5 and I think it quite reasonable. Probably for late Russian units?

[Ataegina]

i will try different stats to make it work

[Mr. Sorrow]

[Ataegina]

well main issue is since we use officers the unit numbers will never show correctly always shows like 122, 151 (+2 , +1) how does adding officers mess with unit number ?

[CPL Trevoga]

Greatest advantage of Sweden wasn't that Russian or Polish had low morale. Sweden had a national army, i.e. draft, better officer corps. It's a Swedish invention and an advantage. Army that was loyal to the king, not to the a particular nobleman. So they could quickly raise men, were Polish or Russian did not have such systems. They had to different recruiting systems.

[shikaka]

I think this 'russians have low morale' thing is mostly a myth, expecially from Peter's reign and on.
Also, the manpower of Russia was of course bigger, but the country couldn't do a full mobilization. Most of the army had to be stationed in border territories far from sweden (like on the ottoman border).

Also, russians were good with bayonet which requires quite some nerves. I mean to close on enemy firing constantly, when you actually fire less frequently.

[Swerg]

EDIT:
Whoops, just read the announcement post. NOW I feel silly

Just cruising the mods and happened upon this. I can give a rough outline of how the Russian faction would best be portrayed.

Initially, Russia should have to rely on numbers. The initial army Peter formed, which took part in the battle of Narva, was poorly trained, poorly led and badly managed. Peter's idea of 'recruiting officers' was basically to take anybody who was from western Europe and said they had military experience and make them an officer.

After Narva, though, he smartened up, kicked out most of the useless ones and set about some serious reforming. He eventually carved out the army that took part in the battle of Poltava, which was a much better army.

To represent Russia properly, you're going to need to have at least two separate 'eras' of units. Three would be better, so as to represent the pre-Petrine reform units.

'Poltava-era' Russian units should be just as good as anybody elses, and about the same size as well. Overall, the Russian army was NOT that much larger than the Swedes (a quick check on Wikipedia says that Sweden had 135,000 men at its height, vs. 170,000 for Russia.) It's further worth noting that Russia was a much bigger country than Sweden AND they were fighting the Ottomans at the same time.

So...

Pre-Petrine Reform Units (Tier I):
Extremely limited access to 'modern' musketeers, say, four units at most (representing LeFort's regiment)
Reliant Streltsy troops, who are rather unreliable, poor morale, poor shooting, average melee.
Poor artillery, very long reloads, poor accuracy
Poor cavalry, reliant on 'noble cavalry' type units.
Cossacks as decent light cavalry + Cossack musketeer units with decent accuracy. (these should more or less stay the same through the whole campaign)

Initial Petrine Reform Units (Tier II):
Access to large numbers of 'modern' musketeer units, very cheap, below average accuracy, poor morale, good melee.
Only Dragoons for cavalry. Peter considered them the most effective type of cavalry and didn't bother with other sorts until later.
Artillery remains much the same.

Post-Narva Reform Units (Tier III):
Add Hussars to the cavalry roster. I can't recall at the moment if the Russians produced heavy cavalry in this era. I believe Anna was the first Russian ruler to have heavy cavalry, so best to just leave them out for now.
Great improvement to infantry, but cost should rise as well. Good accuracy, great morale, great melee.


If you would like a specific unit roster with explanations, I can provide.

[m_1512]

The following research is by patient browsing on google.............. I don't remember the exact name of the site except its background color(Have a TERRIBLE Tooth Ache, so hope you understand)
Good Luck with the mod



Artillery

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Peter's Dragoons

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[m_1512]

Arms: Don't exactly recognize the weapons............... But seems like mix between gun and an axe

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[m_1512]

The Streltsy :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The musketeers, or streltsy (literally “shooters”), were organized as part of Ivan IV’s effort to reform Russia’s military during the sixteenth century. In 1550 he recruited six companies of foot soldiers armed with firearms, organized into tactical units of five hundred, commanded and trained by officers from the nobility. These units were based from the beginning in towns, and eventually took on the character of garrison forces. Over time their numbers grew from three thousand in 1550 to fifty thousand in 1680.



Militarily, they were ineffectual, mainly because of their economic character. The musketeers were a hereditary class not subject to taxation, but to state service requirements, including battlefield service, escort, and guard duties. During the seventeenth century, the state provided them with grain and cash, but economic privileges, including permission to act as merchants, artisans, or farmers, became their principal support. One particular plum was permission to produce alcoholic beverages for their own consumption. They also bore civic duties (firefighting and police) in the towns where they lived. Pursuing economic interests reduced their fighting edge.



Throughout the seventeenth century the musketeers proved to be fractious, regularly threatening, even killing, officers who mistreated them or represented modernizing elements within the military. By 1648 it was apparent that they were unreliable, especially when compared with the new-formation regiments appearing prior to the Thirteen Years War (1654–1667) under leadership of European mercenary officers. Rather than disband the musketeers entirely, the state made attempts to westernize them. Many units were placed under the command of foreigners and retrained. Administrative changes were made during and after the war, including placing certain units under the jurisdiction of the tsar’s Privy Chancery, which appointed officers and collected operations reports. The Privy Chancery, and by extension, the tsar, was at the center of the attempt to transform the musketeers into more thoroughly trained western-style infantry.



Further pressure to reform included official neglect, even to the point of refusing to give the musketeers weapons. Later decrees (1681, 1682) replaced cash payments with grants of unsettled lands as compensation for service. This change in support reduced their status, without improving their overall military effectiveness, and the musketeers vehemently opposed it. By 1680, many regiments had been retrained and officered by foreigners, but the conservative musketeers were anxious to be rid of the hated foreigners and regain their eroded prestige. Thus, in 1682, they were willing to believe rumors that Tsar Fyodor Alexeyevich had been poisoned, and were anxious to punish those responsible with death.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Peter I’s (the Great) reign was marred by an uprising in 1698 of military units stationed in Moscow called musketeers or streltsy (literally, “shooters”). The musketeers disliked the tsar’s westernizing policies and governing style. Peter rejected traditional behaviors and practices, including standards of dress, grooming, comportment, and faith, but more importantly, he sought to reform Russia’s military institutions, which threatened the musketeers’ historical prerogatives.



Peter crushed the rebellion with great severity, executing nearly twelve hundred musketeers, and flogging and exiling another six hundred. The Moscow regiments were abolished and survivors sent to serve in provincial units, losing privileges, homes, and lands. They carried with them seeds of defiance that eventually bore fruit in Astrakhan in 1705–1706, and among the Cossacks in 1707– 1708. Although the last Moscow regiments of musketeers disappeared before 1713, the musketeers continued to exist in the provinces until after Peter’s death.



Peter’s response to the 1698–1699 uprising may have arisen from his memories of the 1682 musketeer revolt. The musketeers suspected the Naryshkins (Peter’s mother, Natalia’s family) of having poisoned Tsar Fyodor and of planning to kill the Tsarevich Ivan, both sons of Tsar Alexei’s first wife, Maria Miloslavskaya. The Miloslavskys encouraged these suspicions in order to use their regiments against the Naryshkins. On May 25, 1682, the musketeers attacked the Kremlin. Natalia Naryshkina showed Ivan and Peter to the rioting musketeers to prove they were still alive. Nonetheless, the rebellion was bloody, and the government was powerless because it had no forces capable of stopping the musketeers. From this rebellion came the joint reign of Ivan and Peter with their sister and half-sister, Sophia, who issued decrees in their names, and who was a favorite of the musketeers.



In 1698 the streltsy were unable to see that Peter I was implacable in his rejection of conservatism and that the musketeers represented for him a dangerous and disloyal element. In the final clash, the musketeers were unable to reshape their world, and eventually disappeared.

[m_1512]

Army of Peter :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Peter the Great is reported to have wept over the defeat near Narva November 1700. He wanted to modernize his military. The core of the most modern armies was artillery and a disciplined infantry with rifles, which was supposed to advance while firing and then charge with fixed bayonets. Such armies were the product of training, mathematics for the artillery, and a more advanced economy than Russia had. Peter’s army had been more cavalry, of nobles, than it had been infantry. His officer corps had been largely generaled by foreign mercenaries, with nobles filling out the rest of the officer corps. Peter saw the need for better arms, better training, and a great number of recruits.



To enlarge his army, Peter offered good pay for those who would volunteer to join. But, unable to attract a great number of young men, he resorted to the conscription of men from all classes. Debt slaves freed by the death of their owner were forbidden to contract themselves to a new master and were enlisted as soldiers and sailors. Peter created a census to keep better track of who was available. Landlords were obliged to submit a list of those working their lands and to supply the army with one peasant soldier for every 50 peasant households and one cavalryman for every 100 peasant households on their lands. Some recruits were obliged to serve in the military for life. Peter created a regular standing army of more than 200,000, with Special Forces of Cossacks and foreigners numbering more than 100,000, and he raised taxes to pay for his military. During Peter’s reign, eighty to eighty-five percent of his revenues would go to his army and his war efforts.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Peter had no use for precise parade-ground military drilling, for fencing practice or for the elaborate and splendid uniforms of western soldiers. He was concerned with instilling confidence and a sense of purpose into his army. He tried to instill nationalist pride in his army, telling them that they were not going to fight for him but for the interests of Russia.



His mind still on an approaching showdown with Sweden, Peter, a religious man, melted down church bells to help replace cannon lost at Narva. He ordered more prospecting for metals and more iron-smelting. Ships were constructed and launched, and sailcloth was manufactured.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Russian State was an enigma to most of Europe and little was known about it. It was looked on as a backward place full of savages. Contemporary European views of Russia were a mixture of fear and contempt. The Russians were keen to dispel these myths and to prove their country was modern, progressive and a major power in Europe.



In practise the Russian military machine lumbered erratically in to action and at the start of the war only a hastily scraped together force was ready and in the correct place. In addition to this the Russians had just undertaken a major military reorganisation that had still not fully been implemented. The end result was much confusion, disorganisation and delay.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Russian infantry was known for its solidity but was not particularly well drilled. The cavalry had just undergone a complete reorganisation just before the Seven Years War but gave a good, if uninspired, account of itself. The artillery was well drilled and equipped with the gunners having a fanatical devotion to their pieces. The Russian high command was variable – from fairly good to traitorous incompetents.



This is an army for those who prefer solidity over dash. It was said that you not only had to kill a Russian but you had to tell him he was dead as well!



None of the guard troops served outside Russia but they could have been (in particular if Peter had lived - there must have been a reasonable chance he would have become personally involved).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

P.S. gimme a shout if need anything



Also, I would suggest you give a rep or two to contributers as they are giving time and effort for the mod, and Some Kind words and few reps goes a long way.

[garudamon11]

This mod is dead, you tired yourself for nothing

[m_1512]

Pity, it was a good idea.....

[garudamon11]

Atageina stopped cause no one was willing to help him in modding