German factions (votation and debate)

[Ataegina]

We're looking for two german factions wich fits our time-frame and will keep reallism and balanced gameplay. we've already picked all the major factions but the germans (excluding prussia wich is major faction on our mod) will be open to you to decide.

Choose ONLY 2, if you choose "other" please specify !

[Finlander]

I voted for Hannover and Bavaria.

[Deutscher Kaiser]

Saxony and Hannover

[Alexandros I.]

Saxony and Hannover

Me too.

[Finlander]

I would like to change my vote from Bavaria to Saxony. I was thinking it last night and my mind changed. Saxony that is.

[Ataegina]

poll can't be editable but at end i will take from bavaria and give to saxony your vote.

[Razor]

Saxony and Poland-Lithuania were in a personal union most of the time during this period so they can be represented as one. Württemberg is pretty much on the outskirts of the map and of little importance/relevance. Hannover is in a personal union with Britain. Since Britain isn't on the map its power could be embodied by Hannover. Bavaria/Wittelsbach is IMO also a must as a counterweight for the Habsburg Empire. So I'd go for Hannover and Bavaria.

[Ataegina]

That was good post Razor

Hannover and bavaria on the campaign would be good options to keep the balance on germany main territory, but if hannover is picked up this faction will very much represent on our mod the british interests on europe mainland since UK isn't on our map.

[intel]

I'd say that Austro-Hungarian balance is much more needed than representation of British interests in that particular campaign.

Therefore, I choose Saxony and Bavaria, though I wonder why is Saxony even debated. It is a complete "must-have" in such setting. But here, a more complicated issue is coming, namely Commonwealth's civil war between Stanislaw Leszczynski (pro-Swedish) and Augustus II the Strong (elector of Saxony, in alliance with Peter the Great). Should Saxony and Poland be merged? Tough question. Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was not in state of a war with Sweden, at least officially, because parliament didn't approve it. Legally speaking, Augustus waged the war as prince elector, not a king of PLC. Unofficially, polish troops and mercenaries were involved in campaigns in Livonia in limited numbers.
During Swedish invasion on Poland, Polish troops refused to participate in the first major battle- battle of Kliszow. One must remember that at the start of the war, Polish state army was very weak, deconstructed by Augustus to strenghten his political power. Most of it's duties were fullfilled by Saxon army. Only during the war, the mobilisation was appointed and numbers rose. Still, Poland was inherently divided, and noble levy (which formed majority of troops) served on both Swedish and Saxon side.

Politically, Augusts had weak position, which only became worse. Economically, he ruthlessy exploited Poland-Lithuania. Polish crown was for him only a step towards a title of Emperor of Holy Roman Empire. As time progressed, Polish-Saxon personal union became more and more fictional, up to Augustus III the Saxon's death. Factually, during GNW Augustus II surrendered his political influence over PLC to Russia, as regulated by treaty between him and Peter the Great.

Thus, whether PLC and Saxony should be merged, is a subject of debate. Personally, I think not. PLC should be a vassal to Saxony and ally to Russia, with Saxon troops stationed within it's borders and civil war script, which would spawn Polish Rebel troops.

[garudamon11]

Bavaria and Wurttemberg ( the latter because I like the name )

[Mr. Sorrow]

Bavaria and Saxony are my choice.Although, I would pick Hannover should it not be so closely knitted with Britain. (Even though there is the question of Saxony's close ties with Poland).

[WinsingtonIII]

I chose Bavaria and Hannover. I think Saxony could be represented as part of Poland-Lithuania given that they were in a personal union. I realize the situation was more complicated than that, but perhaps the Saxon territories should just be very prone to rebellion from P-L.

Though Hannover was in a personal union with Britain, Britain isn't on the map, so I'm not sure how else to represent them other than as a faction.

[Blackhawk!]

Saxony and Hannover.

[Automatix]

saxony and bavaria
saxony could be a protectorate of P-L commonwealth

regards
Automatix

[intel]

saxony and bavaria
saxony could be a protectorate of P-L commonwealth

Unfortunately, it should be P-LC that should be protectorate.

[garudamon11]

Just make them allied, or create a country called Saxony-Poland-Lithuania

[Blackhawk!]

Just make them allied, or create a country called Saxony-Poland-Lithuania

Good question.

[Orochimaru]

Saxony and Bavaria

[Ataegina]

The poll will be open until 31 of this month, so cast your vote on your favorite german factions on this last weeks of poll.

Also for who voted other or who eventually will vote on this option please leave the name of the faction on your post!!

[Pentecostal Knight]

I'm new here but this is my vote Bavaria and Saxony the mod is looking good so far