Roma Surrectum 2 Sub mod Questions & Idea's

[chris10]

Chris10,

I've read the thread that you pointed me to many times before. I've even pointed it out to others in the past. As you can see I even made a post in that thread on May, 14 2010. The one thing in that thread that never got my attention was this statement by Aradan, "Nope, I've never had cloning for the player's faction, just AI." If that is the case then perhaps scripting named characters is limited only to the players faction. I will do some thorough testing on the AI to see if I can make it CTD with these scripted named characters. However, it is important to note that the entire thread talks about named characters in descr_strat that are not part of the family tree rather than scripted named characters.

I think maybe the problem between us not being able to understand one another is that you are speaking the Queen's English and I'm speaking American English. You don't seem to understand what I am saying about killing a character before spawning one with the same name. In any case, I've used this method many times in the past without issue. I'm alarmed by the qoute by Aradan above and I will conduct further testing based on that qoute. Maybe you understood most of what I said with my American English. If so that is great, but if not maybe we need an interpreter.

By the way you still have not attempted to answer my question above. Do you know the answer?

as I said...no hard feelings...
There is a reason why more recent mods do NOT spawn named characters anymore because they all had problems with clone character CTD...EB...RTR...they all suffered from it...this applys to the players faction as well...
I post you another qoute from Dvk901...

The cloned character issue only comes into play at the start of a campaign, OR, with a character added to the game by a script. This involves 'a' character added to the game, who is NOT a member of the existing RTW family tree. RTW is very anal-retentive about how characters get created, I guess. IT wants to do the creating.

It might not cause a problem in 1 single campaign with 1 person playing but it will cause problems when more people are playing..some will have a clone CTD's for sure but hey... judge for yourself
EDIT...the problem which comes up here is that the spawned character gets adopted into the family and thats the moment when the clone gets created. Nobody knows how but it is like it is... Lets assume your campaign character dies of falls in battle, the clone is still there in the games memory...now when the clone dies he will cause the CTD...this is campaign breaking as all saves after the spawning are corrupted with this issue...

[CPT Worsham]

Chris10,

That is some good feedback you provide there even if it is not the answer to the question I was looking for.

I am cautioned by your feedback, but I still have to prove it for myself. I will test it thoroughly by adding lots of scripted characters to an otherwise unmodified vanilla RTW, and I'll turn on perfect spy so I can search for this occurrence. Should a game ending CTD occur during my tests then that will validate it for me. Thanks for the heads up!

[apple]

I actually think Dvk managed to make spawned characters for the player work but not for the AI. You guys should ask him.

[CPT Worsham]

Chris10,

I have been running tests, and unfortunately for my desired mod features you are correct when it comes to scripting named characters for the AI. However, as Apple suggested above I also tested 20 scripted named characters for the player faction without issue. I got each named character to be adopted via "man of the hour" and then I shipped them off to a watery death. No clones nor any CTD occurred. Hence, scripting named characters for the players faction is doable, but it certainly would be nice to be able to script a few historical enemies for the AI factions as well yet not possible.

[chris10]

Chris10,
I have been running tests, and unfortunately for my desired mod features you are correct when it comes to scripting named characters for the AI. However, as Apple suggested above I also tested 20 scripted named characters for the player faction without issue. I got each named character to be adopted via "man of the hour" and then I shipped them off to a watery death. No clones nor any CTD occurred. Hence, scripting named characters for the players faction is doable, but it certainly would be nice to be able to script a few historical enemies for the AI factions as well yet not possible.

Well...with LocalFaction characters you have at least something...
as for starting characters in the descr_strat.... I think they must have a subfaction or will cause the CTD too...you should reread dvk's posts in the thread we talked about.
anyway difficult enough what you like to do as players expand so different and the AI factions are so unpredictable in what they do... I think these things are the main reasons that in all these years there where no serious attempt to tie a bigger amount of historical persons into any RTW mod (except the ones who are coming at the beginning in descr_strat), either they will be off date of off historical expansion and if you make their appearance a condition of both these things then most probably they will never appear...its very difficult no matter what you do...however...good luck with your project....I have just finished my own one and started a alpha test campaign...
ahhh...and happy new year...

[♔DARTH LEGO♔]

Just 2 humble suggestions from an avid RS player
1. Darth and other modders have always had sweeping success IMHO in adjusting the way units meld in battle, i find that i can only achieve this by placing engaged units under AI assistance once contact has been made, would it not be a complimentary feature to try and feature some Darthesque BAi goodies in a future release..?
2. One of the features i enjoyed in Empire (very few i know) was the faction 'evolving' element, i will cut it short sorry, is there a mechanic that can make a swop in the Roman faction when going from Republic to empire ie change from red flags etc to purple and even more so ( greedy i know) enabling a trigger or even that can reinstate or dissolve the senate?

other than that your mod as in the past has bought me many hours of sheer enjoyment thanks you for all the hard work and support in this MOD....you guys rock!

[chris10]

Jis there a mechanic that can make a swop in the Roman faction when going from Republic to empire ie change from red flags etc to purple and even more so ( greedy i know) enabling a trigger or even that can reinstate or dissolve the senate?
other than that your mod as in the past has bought me many hours of sheer enjoyment thanks you for all the hard work and support in this MOD....you guys rock!

1. Only Reform event is the Hardcoded Marian Reform...but not sure this can be tied to a change in banners and colours...
2. You can have the senate in game and then destroy the Faction like in vanilla but no way making it dissapear without destroying the faction...

engine is veeeery old...

[CPT Worsham]

DELETE

[AspisPhalanx90]

Regarding the script....where is the financial stuff? I want to make the Roman Rebels playable, but their income is ridiculously high...needs to be lowered to compensate for the easy recruitment areas

[chris10]

Regarding the script....where is the financial stuff? I want to make the Roman Rebels playable, but their income is ridiculously high...needs to be lowered to compensate for the easy recruitment areas

money stuff starts in line 8968 up to line 9380
but this is not for the general income...its just cap money and add money if a faction is short or has to much

[AspisPhalanx90]

money stuff starts in line 8968 up to line 9380
but this is not for the general income...its just cap money and add money if a faction is short or has to much

thats what i was afraid of...its into the EDB I go, and hopefully everything gets inputted correctly so no CTDs

[GM207]

Hey guys,
Does anyone have any plans for new spartan skins with corinthian helmets, at an earlier time period for RS2?

[chris10]

thats what i was afraid of...its into the EDB I go, and hopefully everything gets inputted correctly so no CTDs

lol...what ?...
you can not edit tax income or trade income...its hardocded in the exe...
although you can edit the trade value of ressources like gold,silver etc and with that influence the trade income in an indirect way ...but dont forget if you get less then the others will get less too

[AspisPhalanx90]

lol...what ?...
you can not edit tax income or trade income...its hardocded in the exe...
although you can edit the trade value of ressources like gold,silver etc and with that influence the trade income in an indirect way ...but dont forget if you get less then the others will get less too

well yeah, there are specific buildings for factions though that grant an increase in money (the cultural or treasury buildings, i forget which). in fact, its only for the player that i want to lower income, its ridiculously high in roman rebels

[Coladro]

Let me begin by saying that I was very excited to see the effort you put into this mod: its graphics and its accuracy. But on playing the mod, I found that it lacked one crucial element that I have come to love in Rome-- the unit lethality. A body of good Roman cavalry charges the flank of a unit of Slingers who are wearing little or no clothing let alone armor instead of riding through them, hacking them to pieces as they would in Rome. They stop and begin a melee that lasts nearly 5 minutes and ends with 3 units of cavalry beaten to hell fleeing the field. I am guessing that since you used Medieval II instead of Rome as an inspiration you believed this was necessary.

I propose a simple alternative: an optional patch for the mod that reduces the defense stats of all units by some factor. I have no experience in modding this game and do not know how this would be done. I will be happy to do the work if someone would point me in the direction of the correct tools and give me advice on how to do the work.

[Spartan198]

Let me begin by saying that I was very excited to see the effort you put into this mod: its graphics and its accuracy. But on playing the mod, I found that it lacked one crucial element that I have come to love in Rome-- the unit lethality. A body of good Roman cavalry charges the flank of a unit of Slingers who are wearing little or no clothing let alone armor instead of riding through them, hacking them to pieces as they would in Rome. They stop and begin a melee that lasts nearly 5 minutes and ends with 3 units of cavalry beaten to hell fleeing the field. I am guessing that since you used Medieval II instead of Rome as an inspiration you believed this was necessary.

I propose a simple alternative: an optional patch for the mod that reduces the defense stats of all units by some factor. I have no experience in modding this game and do not know how this would be done. I will be happy to do the work if someone would point me in the direction of the correct tools and give me advice on how to do the work.

This thread will shine light on the Roman cavalry situation.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=420844

[Coladro]

This thread will shine light on the Roman cavalry situation.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=420844

Hey, thanks! However, I was only listing the Roman cavalry as an example. I'd like such a rebalancing patch to be comprehensive: probably lower all defense skill (Sparta being an exception to some degree). Many of these were press-ganged peasants, not Tai-Chi grandmasters.

Yes, I'm into realism. Well, that and I think this patch would help speed up the gameplay. I'm a little tired of three-hour sieges, thank you.

[chris10]

Hey, thanks! However, I was only listing the Roman cavalry as an example. I'd like such a rebalancing patch to be comprehensive: probably lower all defense skill (Sparta being an exception to some degree). Many of these were press-ganged peasants, not Tai-Chi grandmasters.

Yes, I'm into realism. Well, that and I think this patch would help speed up the gameplay. I'm a little tired of three-hour sieges, thank you.

Lowering defense is not going to solve this..the game has been balanced during a long time and a lot of people where involved into this process. I wonder like every once in a while somebody comes by claiming that this is all so unbalanced and that he has the ultimate solution and on top wants his personal preferences be made into a, special according to him, designed patch without even fully understanding the mechanics and the reasons things are as they are...thats sounds a bit weird doesnt it?

Lethality is what it is to make the battles more realistic and a bit longer...the vanilla battles are absurd as the enemy usually starts routing after 10 seconds. Lowering certain stats without adjusting others may result in totally off balanced results.
I use Roman Cavalry extensively and have no whatsoever problem with them...
When I use them I rip your slingers into pieces and if employed in the right form rout heavy infantry too.
There is no problem with Roman Cavalry just with Players who dont know how to use them correctly.
You have to follow 2 basic rules with Roman Cavalry if they are any less than 2 silver chevron with silver weapon/silver armour.
1. Hit and Run
2. Pursue to kill
Anything else will result in get them slaughtered and its ok that way. If you are into realism you would appreciate that as Roman Cavalry was pretty useless no matter against whom.
More realism means less lethality and longer battles
As well it depends highly on the difficulty level:
H= +4 morale +4 attack/defense for AI
VH=+7 morale +7 attack/defense for AI
and on a units experience (every chevron +1 attack/+1 defense) and possible armour/weapon (+1 attack/defense each level) upgrades.
If you sent a zero chevron Equites without upgrade against a one silver chevron slinger with silver armour upgrade the charge will not cause much casualties and in the following melee the slingers will rip most likely the Equites into pieces, no surprise.
On the other hand 2 silver chevron Equites with silver weapon and gold armour upgrade are a formidable adversary in battle and their charges are devastating.

As for siege battles...just autoresolve..I dont like them to much either but nobody forces you to play them...

[Coladro]

I would still like directions to any modding tools you could suggest for Rome I am interested in trying this for my own use if nothing else as well as work on my own mod ideas.

[chris10]

I would still like directions to any modding tools you could suggest for Rome I am interested in trying this for my own use if nothing else as well as work on my own mod ideas.

of course...here you go......
Tools,Tutorials and Ressources
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=191



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