Re-Adressing Roman Recruitment Necessary

[chris10]

I posted this in the RS PATCH 2.1a thread but it will be lost within all the other posts so I decided to make a new topic to point this out.
I simply going to copypaste my post...

Too whom it may concern: I have combined all the fixes for RS2 into a Patch called '2.1a', so there is no need to find individual files anymore. Plus, there are a few other fixes as well. This patch should be save game compatible.

Just in time before the weekend....good news...
May I asked if the roman allied recruitment has been adressed as the 2.1 setting makes all pre-marian roman barracks pretty much useless because ALL units can be recruited thru the client state building.
This setting is a bit absurd especially when having in mind that barracks build times and prices have been raised to avoid enabling the player to pull out units in conquered lands within no time....
With the 2.1 setting it just takes 5 turns: 1Turn Goverment determination and 4 Turns Client State Building and voila...unit bumper in fresh conquered lands.

While a brilliant idea using the client building it should have been tied to the condition to have BOTH the barracks and the client state building to produce certain units. Maybe even making better or elite allied units only in the higher barrack available.
Example: Dyrrhachium
Allied and Roman Allied Polybians should not be availabe before the Roman Oppidum (the one for 6000) and the Allied Agrianian Infantry should only be available in the last pre marian barrack. The one for 9000 denari...


EDIT 2.
Solved in a very satisfying way...I go to release it with my next submod: Rome1Turn Campaign Expansion "5 Good Emperors".

[apulum]

Nevermind......Iam going to do it and include it in the little submod Iam working on...[/QUOTE]
please do it save game compatible .........+ rep

[cartmen180]

you are missing one thing here, the barracks give a negative law bonus in the client-or-allied-state settlements. and thats why you get those units without having to build a barracks, because the client or allied state provides those for you.

[chris10]

you are missing one thing here, the barracks give a negative law bonus in the client-or-allied-state settlements. and thats why you get those units without having to build a barracks, because the client or allied state provides those for you.

I understand where you are coming from but it keeps being absurd to provide units without barracks..and its not that the allied client state just provides allied units but ALL roman allied units as well such as Polybians,Triarii,Equites etc.....
Interesting situation...where are these units trained ?..in some sort of hidden underground barracks ?...
I understand the approach and it is very clever but missed to connect it with the need of building barracks....
at the end....NO training facilitys...NO army

[rory o'kane]

How many times must i point out that the Roman Oppidum tree doesn't represent barracks being built but the slow Romanisation of the province? One assumes that the tribal levy/local barracks are available when one has an allied/client state - however, as the province becomes more Romanised, the more Roman the troops become, until there are sufficient Romans living there to allow the recruitment of proper Roman troops. You are right, however, in pointing out that the Allied versions of Roman troops are available a little too soon - perhaps knocking everything but the Velites back a few levels would be a good idea....

[chris10]

How many times must i point out that the Roman Oppidum tree doesn't represent barracks being built but the slow Romanisation of the province? One assumes that the tribal levy/local barracks are available when one has an allied/client state - however, as the province becomes more Romanised, the more Roman the troops become, until there are sufficient Romans living there to allow the recruitment of proper Roman troops. You are right, however, in pointing out that the Allied versions of Roman troops are available a little too soon - perhaps knocking everything but the Velites back a few levels would be a good idea....

Its just...it is not right that after 5 turns and building a single Building the player can recruit full polybian allied armys + all local troops...I think thats in total opposition of the Romanization Process...In which area you can recruit loyal troops after 2-3 years...???..Its absurd...
Nevermind....found the solution....and I think a very smart one which really represents a process of romanization without making all units available after just a few turns... have tested it right now and it is savegame compatibel......and NO....I did not raised the built time of the client state...
nice find...that made my evening....this issue was really bugging me...

[dvk901]

If you want to make it more like it will be in Patch 2.2, just edit EDB.txt, search for 'client_state', and then make the building cost 10000 denarii and take 10 turns to build. This roughly equates to the entire cost and turns to wait until you would build the Roman Oppida tree to the point where you could recruit anything of value.

I would've done this in Patch2.1a....probably should have in retrospect, but another problem was that a bunch of regions in Italy start out with a client state building. They will be removed in Patch 2.2.

The reason for moving the units as I did and setting it up this way is because it seemed silly to me to be able to recruit non-Roman units in a Roman colonization building that essentially morphs into a military complex. I wanted this separated, as it should be, and I wanted it to represent the fact that a client or allied Roman state wouldn't take kindly to colonization incursions....so the two trees are opposed to each other.

[chris10]

1. If you want to make it more like it will be in Patch 2.2, just edit EDB.txt, search for 'client_state', and then make the building cost 10000 denarii and take 10 turns to build. This roughly equates to the entire cost and turns to wait until you would build the Roman Oppida tree to the point where you could recruit anything of value.

2. I would've done this in Patch2.1a....probably should have in retrospect, but another problem was that a bunch of regions in Italy start out with a client state building. They will be removed in Patch 2.2.

3. The reason for moving the units as I did and setting it up this way is because it seemed silly to me to be able to recruit non-Roman units in a Roman colonization building that essentially morphs into a military complex. I wanted this separated, as it should be, and I wanted it to represent the fact that a client or allied Roman state wouldn't take kindly to colonization incursions....so the two trees are opposed to each other.

1. I tried to add order1, order2 building as a condition to recruit units but it goes CTD. Apparently a Building can not be a recruitment condition for units recruited in another building.

2. When you are going to release it ? Just a rough guess...Iam working on a mini expansion for Rome1Turn and it would be a pity if I spent all the time working on something and then I have to do it again because there a major changes in the EDB or EDU .

3.Yes...both trees are opposing each other...

[Adam the VIth]

Excellent discussion.

Chris: you are very impressive. Your passion and commitment to the game are outstanding. I wish I had the time to commit the way you do!

Keep up the good work!

[chris10]

Excellent discussion.

Chris: you are very impressive. Your passion and commitment to the game are outstanding. I wish I had the time to commit the way you do!

Keep up the good work!

thanks...just try to add a few cents...
the real work was done by creating this beautiful Rome version..

[dvk901]

Unfortunately, you cannot add a building conditional to a unit with much success. It would be nice if that worked, and solve a lot of issies, but it invariably results in CTD's.

I am not planning to 'radically' change EDB.txts. I had thought to do something to address the Levy unit problem caused by fixing the rebellion CTD, but the problem is that fixing that involves a real gutting of a whole bunch of files to remove a unit and then create a unit in 50 different places, and then put all recruitment back the way it was, etc. etc. and I'm just tired of it. It's an irritation, yes, that the AI can recruit levy units, but in reality it could in most other mods anyway. Eventually, armies get more balanced as the AI builds it's barracks. So I guess to solve one problem you have to bite the bullet and tolerate another one.

[chris10]

Unfortunately, you cannot add a building conditional to a unit with much success. It would be nice if that worked, and solve a lot of issies, but it invariably results in CTD's.

I found out this weekend
After hours and hours of editing ALL allied untis in the EDB I found myself biting into the table when it constantly went CTD until Aradan mentioned that this not works .

[Beetlecat]

How many times must i point out that the Roman Oppidum tree doesn't represent barracks being built but the slow Romanisation of the province? One assumes that the tribal levy/local barracks are available when one has an allied/client state - however, as the province becomes more Romanised, the more Roman the troops become, until there are sufficient Romans living there to allow the recruitment of proper Roman troops. You are right, however, in pointing out that the Allied versions of Roman troops are available a little too soon - perhaps knocking everything but the Velites back a few levels would be a good idea....

Yeah -- i kept using that terminology at first too, but the idea is the same that the Oppidum(s/i) represent the the "Roman Organization" in the province. tying the Allied legions to those buildings rather than the allied state building makes more sense -- and there is only one level of allied state building. Otherwise it'd work as a parallel tree to allow more units as a settlement develops.

I'd even like better local troops allowed gradually, not just the allied legions.

[naq]

So I can recruit Roman units with Roman Oppidum?

[chris10]

please do it save game compatible .........+ rep

thnx...I think it will worth to play a new campaign...
all these changes are in this...
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=410495

I'd even like better local troops allowed gradually, not just the allied legions.

the new recruitment is posted within this....to make it more gradual the entire EDB would have to be rewritten which would be
an enourmus task...so the solution I found is more belivable and easy to implement without kicking all recruitment away.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=410495

[rory o'kane]

So I can recruit Roman units with Roman Oppidum?

If you build the annex region building, yes, which simulates you bringing the province under direct control rather than leaving it as a semi-autonomous client state.