im fed up with alone generals that kill hundreads...

[quikesan]

Im tired of those enemy generals. This last time, just him (alone, his guard was already exterminated), killed like 40 armoured soldiers, and another 40 spearman. He was alone, surrounded... and he wasn't even good!!!0 starts, 0 chivaldry.....
I dont care if he is the king, or the damm pope... one man cant kill 100 armored guys surrounding him.
Argggggg

[Thotiate]

Best line from every awesome action movie ever made "What's he gonna do? It's just one man!"

COMMENCE ÜBER DEATH

Is this any faction in particular? For me personally, it's always been the Muslim generals that have been the worst to kill..and the Byzantine generals aren't much better. It is somewhat unrealistic though.

[quikesan]

Best line from every awesome action movie ever made "What's he gonna do? It's just one man!".

haha, good quote


this time the general was moor, but has happened several times....
once , the king of Milan, who has top starts and dread, killed about 500 of my men....

[Smokey Bacon]

Milan isn't in SS6.3.

And I think it is so generals arn't too easy to kill, allthough in real life they woudl die jsut as easily as any other man it stops generals being sniped off so quick and making battles really easy.

[Thotiate]

haha, good quote


this time the general was moor, but has happened several times....
once , the king of Milan, who has top starts and dread, killed about 500 of my men....

500??? That's freaking bad ass, he must have been rolling in poontang.

But seriously i'm not at all surprised that it was a Moorish general in question, i think they are hands down the most fiendish to dispatch. Which is why, when facing Muslim armies, I always like to have a one or two catapult units handy

I doubt even Chuck Norris could take a hit from a flaming rock and live.

Actually I take that back before he reads it. But you know what I mean.

[Tears of Destiny]

Eh, my Hochmeister is the only reason why I took the Polish Fortress from the Polish in my TO campaign, all of my army routed, and a 30+_ band of hunters was slowly scraggling back halfway on the map, exhausted, leaving my General (And four soon-to-be-dead bodybguards) to deal with a couple dozen men-at-arms, five dozen spearmen, and a dozen or so other jerks supporting an intact group of archers.

Thank god for charges.

Either way, the moral of the story is never expect poor-mid quality troops to take on Elites.

[Point Blank]

Latest files I am using reduce BG from base size of 12 to 8.

[Tears of Destiny]

Latest files I am using reduce BG from base size of 12 to 8.

How is that working out for you? Here I think it starts at 17 or so.

[Point Blank]

Its much better, especially in early era when BG's are tanks. You have to be much more careful with them. It worked very well in TATW as well.

[Ichon]

So FL bodyguard on large units with 2 ancillaries will be 28 or something instead of 39? That will help but in the early game most battles my generals survive with 6-12 men and are close to full strength in 2 more turns. Later in campaign I often get battles where general has only 1-2 men left but... if AI generals also getting smaller sizes that is where I lose most of the BG so not sure how large a difference it will make.

Bigger help would be to somehow mod how quickly the BG 'heal' back to full strength. So using the BG several battles in a row becomes more difficult.

[k/t]

Is that an even greater decrease than in the latest RR/RC? Right now my bodyguards are usually 17-23 (on Huge, or whatever the biggest unit size is).

Nvm, I forgot this is in the SS forum, not the RR/RC.

[Mittermeyer]

I agree the general in SS6.3 is a bit overpowered. A team of 21 BG can kill 300 of militia without trouble.

IMO the general in SS6.1 is somewhat weaker, which i think it's more appropriate. Even it's elite, it doesn't make sense that 1 general with few BG can kill several hundred of militia (more like he would be forced to surrender due to exhaustion)

[Ichon]

Well small forces of knights were able to bring much more power to the immediate fight then several hundred militia historically and small forces of knights defeated 10x their number or more but usually not in a single battle since it is pointless to send 1,000 men against 50 knights since most of that 1,000 won't even be able to reach the knights unless the knights charge individually each unit.

Usually the 21 BG win vs the militia because they kill captain and cause a rout. I've rarely seen even King get more than 400 kills in a battle but its common to get 200+ and another 200+ captured prisoners. Usually even vs good quality army that doesn't route so multiple charges occur a general is lucky to get 200 kills unless it 15 units of basic militia commanded by a general with 4 archer units. In that situation 400+ kills is not out of the question.

I still think the main strength of BG is the self healing. Slow that down and while BG will remain powerful it won't determine so many battles at least for human players who have to think about conserving BG for the next battle.

[Caesar Clivus]

Pretty sure the rate of bodyguard replenishment is hardcoded.

[quikesan]

Milan isn't in SS6.3.

I know, the general killing my entire army happened to me in vanilla, but yestarday happend more or less the same playing SS 6.3

And I think it is so generals arn't too easy to kill, allthough in real life they woudl die jsut as easily as any other man it stops generals being sniped off so quick and making battles really easy.

thats what I mean, its not realistic that few guys on a horse (no matter how well armed or plated they are), kill hundreds of troops (even if they are rubbish spearman) surrounding them.

[quikesan]

Well small forces of knights were able to bring much more power to the immediate fight then several hundred militia historically and small forces of knights defeated 10x their number or more but usually not in a single battle since it is pointless to send 1,000 men against 50 knights since most of that 1,000 won't even be able to reach the knights unless the knights charge individually each unit.

Usually the 21 BG win vs the militia because they kill captain and cause a rout. I've rarely seen even King get more than 400 kills in a battle but its common to get 200+ and another 200+ captured prisoners. Usually even vs good quality army that doesn't route so multiple charges occur a general is lucky to get 200 kills unless it 15 units of basic militia commanded by a general with 4 archer units. In that situation 400+ kills is not out of the question.

Yeah, of course in open battles with cavalry charges and those things, a general and his BG could kill thousands in real battle (so in MTW2), mostly because of the fear. But what has happened to me (several times) is in a castle battle, after being killed almost the entire enemy army and have taken the walls, his generals are in the middle, waiting to be exterminated with the mood "its imposible to win this battle", and my troops with "its imposible to loose this battle", then I riot the central square with hundreads of troops, surround the generals, and they kill thousands of my troops, if not all of them

I still think the main strength of BG is the self healing. Slow that down and while BG will remain powerful it won't determine so many battles at least for human players who have to think about conserving BG for the next battle.

Self healing? do they do that? in battles or in campaign map? If its in campaign map, I can understand perfectly, it would be something like if the general rebuilds his guard with minor nobles.

I think the BG in SS have too many healpoints. Its ok and realistic if they are so powerful than can kill a man in every slash they make, but is not realistic that they got hit thousand times by 10 o 20 people, and dont die.

The key of the cavalry (in real life, and also in the game), is, as use say, the charges. If they charge they are awesome, but if they get stuck in close combat, they are screwed. They are too big bulky. Maybe they can kill 5 or 10 men (even that would be amazing thought...), but being surrounded, another 5 or 10 will easily drop them from the horse, find some chink in his armour, attack them with a spear... and at the end, kill them.

[Cyprexinia]

Muslim generals are always the hardest to kill, I've had Moor BG drop an entire unit of spear militia + 75% of the dismounted knights I had without them charging into my guys. I was very angry that 20 guys could do that, where as I always lose my general to such odds.

[mattgoby]

"What's he gonna do? It's just one man!".

is this from arthur?

[cezarip]

Muslim generals are always the hardest to kill, I've had Moor BG drop an entire unit of spear militia + 75% of the dismounted knights I had without them charging into my guys. I was very angry that 20 guys could do that, where as I always lose my general to such odds.

The Ai cavalry gets huge bonuses in battle. This way, 2 units Turkish Horse Archers (with 2 total defense) wipe the floor with one Armenian Heavy Cavalry and one bodyguard. Charges against those guys do not work and in hand to hand melee they own (although according to stats they should have been long dead)! AI generals are beasts in hand to hand combat. I always bring two dedicated javelin units as general killers.

[Ichon]

But what has happened to me (several times) is in a castle battle, after being killed almost the entire enemy army and have taken the walls, his generals are in the middle, waiting to be exterminated with the mood "its imposible to win this battle", and my troops with "its imposible to loose this battle", then I riot the central square with hundreads of troops, surround the generals, and they kill thousands of my troops, if not all of them

I think the BG in SS have too many healpoints. Its ok and realistic if they are so powerful than can kill a man in every slash they make, but is not realistic that they got hit thousand times by 10 o 20 people, and dont die.

Well its not "thousands" killed. Maybe 2 hundred or something is certainly possible if the general and BG is full strength and your units are tired and only basic militia. I've had battle where my troops were entering the fight at 'tired' and after killing only 5 BG they are exhausted while they lost 1/3 of their men... then they break and run away. Had this happen fighting El Cid as Aragon... started the battle with 80% of my men surviving the assault only to end with only 16% alive just from fighting El Cid. However most of the losses were fled... actual men El Cid killed was just less than 200 out of 1,000 remaining from the initial force of 1,200. They were almost all basic spear militia with no upgrades or xp though so... ending that battle with only 180 men or so not fled or dead felt a bit extreme but it should be rare times a single full strength general gets to fight many tired militias.

The generals do have some extreme HP but that is to keep the armies actually giving some battle in the field. So many times I kill entire generals BG except for general with 0 losses then the general kills 15-20 elite men by himself.

Also I've seen single surviving general with all BG lost charge archer unit and kill 40 men in about 4 seconds. Of course that is unrealistic but then this is a game and some parts have to be unrealistic to help give more fun in other ways.