The Hellenic States

[Sabazios]

Armoured hoplites are overpowered in vanilla imo. It has always been a crazy thing to fight with a fullstack of armoured hoplites recruited by Greek Cities

Yeah thats true, but i think thats because the Greek cities already can build them from city barracks. Maybe move them to urban barracks and add thureophoroi to city barracks? I do think they will eventually need Amoured hoplites against enemies like Rome. So this way in city barracks they can recruit armies with hoplites and thureophoroi. Later they can aditionally recruit armoured hoplites and thorakitai. The thureophoroi should only be available to Greek cities though imo.


and what about the unit suggestions?

[ninjabanana]

I like Sabazios' idea of adding thureophoroi to tier-3 barracks and Armoured hoppies to tier-4 barracks. I mean, the Massalian league already recruits Armoured hoppies from tier-4, so why give the Greek city-states the privilege of doing so at tier-3?

And what about adding a sword infantry unit (other than the thorakitai) to the successors? I remember something like that suggested few days back. The thorakitai come so late that it would be good to have another sword unit.

[Lanjane]

New pontic bodyguards, finished just a few minutes ago

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[ninjabanana]

Looks cool. How about their stats? Are these pre- or post-marian?

[Lanjane]

Thank you. They are pre-Marian. I don't even imagine post-marian look of pontic general's guard, maybe later I'll decide how they shold look.

[Cinuz]

Wow, they're wonderful!

I think that the post-marian pontic (if we could call them this way), would have abandoned the bronze cuirass and made little use of the linothorax in favour of the chainmail armor, but I'm really not sure..

[Sabazios]

I like Sabazios' idea of adding thureophoroi to tier-3 barracks and Armoured hoppies to tier-4 barracks. I mean, the Massalian league already recruits Armoured hoppies from tier-4, so why give the Greek city-states the privilege of doing so at tier-3?

And what about adding a sword infantry unit (other than the thorakitai) to the successors? I remember something like that suggested few days back. The thorakitai come so late that it would be good to have another sword unit.

I think it would be nice if those units where aor like units, to create some differece in the Succesors rosters.

For example:
Macedonia - Agrianian skirmishers (axe + javelins)
Lysimachia - reskinned Bastarnae (romphia)
Ptolemies - Nubian axemen (2 handed axe)
Antigonids - Cilician skirmishers (sword + javelins)

[Cinuz]

I think it would be nice if those units where aor like units, to create some differece in the Succesors rosters.

For example:
Macedonia - Agrianian skirmishers (axe + javelins)
Lysimachia - reskinned Bastarnae (romphia)
Ptolemies - Nubian axemen (2 handed axe)
Antigonids - Cilician skirmishers (sword + javelins)

And what about the seleucids? Could a graeco-persian infantry good? (same model of the eastern infantry. you add to it some spaulders and here we go: eastern infantry equipped with linothorax. you can even add a smaller hoplon to them if you wish but i wouldn't give them the overhand animation. or you could give them swords )

What do you say?

[Lanjane]

Well, it seems some time is needed to add all these units. I hope the new update will be released in next 2-3 days.

Your suggestions are really brilliant It's a pleasure to work with you, and for you guys!

[ninjabanana]

I think it would be nice if those units where aor like units, to create some differece in the Succesors rosters.

For example:
Macedonia - Agrianian skirmishers (axe + javelins)
Lysimachia - reskinned Bastarnae (romphia)
Ptolemies - Nubian axemen (2 handed axe)
Antigonids - Cilician skirmishers (sword + javelins)

Looks good. Cinuz's suggestion sounds cool too, I'd prefer it had a sword instead of a spear.

[Valkar]

Give the Bastarnae a Falx, not a Romphaia

[Achea]

Armoured Hoplites are overpowered, but without them the Greeks are weak. Nice bodyguards BTW.

[Sabazios]

And what about the seleucids? Could a graeco-persian infantry good? (same model of the eastern infantry. you add to it some spaulders and here we go: eastern infantry equipped with linothorax. you can even add a smaller hoplon to them if you wish but i wouldn't give them the overhand animation. or you could give them swords )

What do you say?

sounds good, I would prefer swords too. Maybe a kopis?.

Give the Bastarnae a Falx, not a Romphaia

yes, you're right, i always mix those 2 up.


Guess we'll have to give Lanjane some time now

[Valkar]

Thats why i like the hoplites from Rome tw Alexander. Good, but not 'Elite'

[Cinuz]

I'm glad you guys liked my suggestion

[Aleksander the Average]

What do you think guys of replacing armoured hoplites (it's a cheat unit I suppose) with thureophoroi? (spearmen with thureos, heavy oval shield, and heavy javelins - fight just like legionaries, but with spear instead of a sword).

And about romans... I'll remove late legionaries, first cohort, legionary cavalry, praetorians&praetorian cav and Urban Cohort, but will add them some auxilia with lorica hamata instead. Does it sound good?

totally agree. i think these would be good fixes,

edit: but as someone else said... just move the armored hoplites up a tier.. the greeks will need them later.

i think thureophoroi should be equivalent to hastati/principes (or in between)
while thorakitai should be equal to triarii (maybe a little better) - this way we can recruit them at city and army barracks respectively.

thoughts?

[Apollyon]

totally agree. i think these would be perfect fixes.

i think thureophoroi should be equivalent to hastati/principes (or in between)
while thorakitai should be equal to triarii (maybe a little better) - this way we can recruit them at city and army barracks respectively.

thoughts?

and please Lanjane, let me know if you want any help. we can't let you do this all alone.

Thurephoroi were light infantry, only better than peltasts due to a larger shield. Probably not up to Hastati standard, but close.

As for Thorakitai, they were heavy versions of the Thurephoroi, with a spear to fight with. I would make them the equal of the Principes, but nothing better.

[Aleksander the Average]

Thurephoroi were light infantry, only better than peltasts due to a larger shield. Probably not up to Hastati standard, but close.

As for Thorakitai, they were heavy versions of the Thurephoroi, with a spear to fight with. I would make them the equal of the Principes, but nothing better.

so... where do the incendiary pigs come in then?

my point is... i think this mod was supposed to be more for gameplay and a vanilla feel than for realism.

i do partially agree. perhaps we could make them hastati/principes equivalent but only available at city/army barracks respectively... that way the hellenistic factions are not getting the same quality units as the romans with the same ease (building wise)

[Lanjane]

alexander the average, don't worry, I like skinning/modelling very much, and it seems there isn't so much work with coding. However, I must say, English is a foreign language for me, and text description for units are always a greater challenge than even a 3d-bone-weighting. If you help me with text descriptions, that would be really cool.

And you are helping me with your suggestions, that's invaluable itself.

Apollyon, thank you. One of the best thureophoroi I ever saw in RTW mods were ones in XGM-Diadochi. They have spears and very nice and unique shields.

[Achea]

You have fantastic english for a foriegn language, don't worry about it. If required, I can still do some description work. Also, on the topic of AOR units, I say make them recruited from shipwright/dockyard. Less work and more vanilla feel.

I also scrounged this up- Thrace The Serpent Reborn (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=249548). Perhaps you can import some units to give Thrace a more unique feel. I would suggest the Noble Cavalry and the Thracian Infantry, as well as the tempe system. The creator, Subrosa is no longer acive, but as long as credit is given I'm sure she won't mind.