Point System for Joint Entries - Discussion & Poll

[LuckyLewis]

Due to the result of the poll here, Joint Entries of two people will be allowed. The point system must now be discussed. Half points? 1 point each? Discuss.

I will open a poll after enough discussion has gone on and we can decide on some poll options.

_________

Hi everyone, I've added a poll to this discussion now. We've already decided than Joint entries of two people will allowed in the previous poll now we must vote on the point system.

As you are all aware, the winner of the VOTM receives 1 point to go towards the VOTM medal. Let us say that a joint entry wins a VOTM. Should both receive the full 1 point? Or should it be spilt into two, granting half a point to each person?

DECIDE.

[MasterBigAb]

Due to the same reasons i brought up in the other discussion I am all for 1/each

[Edax]

Transplanted Post:
I'd say one point each only if there are 2 or less joint entry videos in the contest. If there are 3 or more joint-entries, half a point each to the winner.

[MasterBigAb]

Sounds good to me as well, yes

[.Mitch.]

Working in a team is a bonus. A luxury some may not have access too. If a team of an extremely skilled clip taker and a very skilled editor form a team. They are obviously going to have a largely increased chance of winning, thus its logical the benefit they have with the team should be balanced in order of fairness with a split reward.

Everyone has a month to take clips and edit. The team members have a month to do each of these things.
Circumventing the limit of ability that others might have, either in time, or in the fact they can't use a team for whatever reason, isn't fair, unless there is something to balance the choice of using a team. I.e. The half point.

The rules are here to keep things fair, for everyone, no?


That was my point from the other thread. I stick by it.

[MasterBigAb]

Working in a team is a bonus. A luxury some may not have access too. If a team of an extremely skilled clip taker and a very skilled editor form a team. They are obviously going to have a largely increased chance of winning, thus its logical the benefit they have with the team should be balanced in order of fairness with a split reward.

Everyone has a month to take clips and edit. The team members have a month to do each of these things.
Circumventing the limit of ability that others might have, either in time, or in the fact they can't use a team for whatever reason, isn't fair, unless there is something to balance the choice of using a team. I.e. The half point.

The rules are here to keep things fair, for everyone, no?


That was my point from the other thread. I stick by it.

Yeah I understand it but don't share your opinion sry
About the bonus, you are right, but i do also want to point out again that we do have some extreme case right at the beginning, and lookign at our movie makers around here, from what ic an say they are all damn good, at cutting and minor editing, though noone heavy edited his vids so far so others maing a joint entry will - so i'd guess - not be splitted exactly like this time, someone doing "only" heavy and detailed editing and effects etc... though that can be argued about, of course...

I cannot agree with the time you're mentioning: In fact our vid takes much longer than normally - as already said i had to spend the same time on it as normally as well (this time even more, as i had to use many replays etc....) and theatroN also has to spend about the same amount of time as normally.
I donot or just use small editings normally, which doesn't give me any time bonus with the joint entry, and theatroN does record Empire videos, i do not want to say recording is avery easy task, but the records for a video in Empire can easily be doen within a few hours while with MEdieval 2 and the CinEd you have to spend waaay more time on it... so he doesn't save that much time as well.
You also have to look at the managing aspects etc... that we had to talk long and detailed and often about it, and had to send samples to each other and so on and so on, so it isn't a time bonus at all, more the opposite which does increas ethe work a bit as well.

I am for one point each as i know - after this project, that even if some might not believ me, it isn't lesser work at all, our goal was to make a perfect or almost perfect vid, so i in fact spend even more time on it this time than normal, theatroN as well, as the editing will be really detailed and special etc...

That'S my poitn of view

[John Doe]

i had to spend the same time on it as normally as well (this time even more, as i had to use many replays etc....) and theatroN also has to spend about the same amount of time as normally.
I donot or just use small editings normally, which doesn't give me any time bonus with the joint entry, and theatroN does record Empire videos, i do not want to say recording is avery easy task, but the records for a video in Empire can easily be doen within a few hours while with MEdieval 2 and the CinEd you have to spend waaay more time on it... so he doesn't save that much time as well.
You also have to look at the managing aspects etc... that we had to talk long and detailed and often about it, and had to send samples to each other and so on and so on, so it isn't a time bonus at all, more the opposite which does increas ethe work a bit as well.

I understand the part where managing a team is time consuming (download etc..), may be I got it wrong but from what you explained, it seems being two got you to try something more ambitious than usual (using more replays...)? And it's true that cinedit is painly slow to use, but it allows so much more camera freedom than ETW/NTW. And it's easier "to get it just right" with cinedit, not mentioning you can render with all graphic option maxed out without lag, whatever your PC's specs.

And we can't discuss only based on your vid: nothing is preventing a team to present a 2 or 3 minute vids, it's going to be hard to compete with that on the technical level.

I'm more incline to split the point, as benefit of a team outweight what would be done alone.

[John Doe]

After sleeping on it I had an Eureka moment. What don't we give a point to the team, and once the team reach 3 points they get half a medal each? Problem solved!!!

why is everybody look at me like that...OOOOOh, i see

[MasterBigAb]

After sleeping on it I had an Eureka moment. What don't we give a point to the team, and once the team reach 3 points they get half a medal each? Problem solved!!!

why is everybody look at me like that...OOOOOh, i see

Solution found, +rep

[LuckyLewis]

Hi everyone, I've added a poll to this discussion now. We've already decided than Joint entries of two people will allowed in the previous poll now we must vote on the point system.

As you are all aware, the winner of the VOTM receives 1 point to go towards the VOTM medal. Let us say that a joint entry wins a VOTM. Should both receive the full 1 point? Or should it be spilt into two, granting half a point to each person?

DECIDE.

[MasterBigAb]

Full point me thinks, due to stated reasons

[General Brittanicus]

Full point each.

[Killerbee]

For VotM - I'd say 1 point each due to it being only monthly.

For PotW/UesW, I think 0.5 is a good system

[John Doe]

voted for half.

On another topic, having 2 votes for uesw and potw is a good idea, is it going to be the same for votm?

[LuckyLewis]

On another topic, having 2 votes for uesw and potw is a good idea, is it going to be the same for votm?

Indeed, the reception of the trial run has been relatively positive so I intend to keep it for all comps.

[John Doe]

cool

[megalitho]

Indeed, the reception of the trial run has been relatively positive so I intend to keep it for all comps.

indeed: cool

voted for 1 each.

[MasterBigAb]

Indeed, the reception of the trial run has been relatively positive so I intend to keep it for all comps.

[Nanny de Bodemloze]

This is tough...there are many ways of looking at this, but when I balance it out I think Mitch has presented some good points that make sense to me. Remember - in this comp, we are awarding a prize for the VIDEO and not the video maker (the video maker happens to receive the benefits of that prize, but that is incidental). We want this to be so...otherwise, we would be voting for a vid because we thought the artists body of work deserves a vote, even if this vid wasn't the best of the bunch in a given month.

And therefore, with that in mind, the vid should get the same number of points, regardless of how many hands were involved in it: 1 point, split in whatever way the authors wish it.

Let's use a more extreme example...let's say Naxzul, theatroN, BigAb, myself, and ltflak all decided to put together a joint vid, cashing in on all the things we are all good at in our own ways. If that vid won - 5 points issued? That just doesn't seem right, intuitively.

[MasterBigAb]

This is tough...there are many ways of looking at this, but when I balance it out I think Mitch has presented some good points that make sense to me. Remember - in this comp, we are awarding a prize for the VIDEO and not the video maker (the video maker happens to receive the benefits of that prize, but that is incidental). We want this to be so...otherwise, we would be voting for a vid because we thought the artists body of work deserves a vote, even if this vid wasn't the best of the bunch in a given month.

And therefore, with that in mind, the vid should get the same number of points, regardless of how many hands were involved in it: 1 point, split in whatever way the authors wish it.

Let's use a more extreme example...let's say Naxzul, theatroN, BigAb, myself, and ltflak all decided to put together a joint vid, cashing in on all the things we are all good at in our own ways. If that vid won - 5 points issued? That just doesn't seem right, intuitively.

You should read through the old debate
That was a solid point yes, but we decided if a joint project is allowed to be entered in votm, then there mustn't be more than 2 people involved. I personally am fine with your opinion anyways and I am fien with whatever the people will decide