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Thread: cavlary effectivnes

  1. #1

    Default cavlary effectivnes

    The mod is great, but i have a question on the effectivness of cavlary especialy heavy cavlary (cataphracts) for one they are not in a tight formation, which makes their charge less powerfull, and also i tried charging into a group of Hastati the early version with a defence of 19, and the cataphracts were not as devastating as i though they would be. About 15 died from the charge, and they went into meele which the cataphracts barely won with the armour effective mace they have for secandary weapon. My issue is this. If the heavy cavlary can not charge in and cause a significant damage to units who have a defence of 19, then what is their purpose. I did do a test which i flanked the Hastati and it word but i can flank with medium cavlary and get similar results. I think heavy cavlary especaliy cataphracts should be in tight formation, and cause a significant amount of damage when charging head on to sword units.

  2. #2

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    i was looking at the descr stats, and i saw the attack rate very low on all the units. ( this answers my question about the cav. not being so effective) i was wondering if this is how it is intended to be with the attack rate very low, or is the stats not finished yet?

  3. #3

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    I did notice this as well, more specifically with the Carthaginian Sacred Band Cavalry. Maybe in the next release the cavalry can be improved.
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  4. #4

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    i put the kill rate higher to 0.7 some units had a killrate of 0.1 it took like 1o minutes for a single soldiers to get killed

  5. #5
    Simetrical's Avatar Former Chief Technician
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  6. #6

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    The leathality is suppose to be low, battles in EB are supposed to be long. Also because of the charge bonus bug the cavalry doesn't fight exactly how it should, but don't expect it to suddenly become vanilla cavalry or anything, it's not going to happen. If you're looking for quick battles that can be won almost soley by using heavy cavalry than you're playing the wrong mod.
    Last edited by QwertyMIDX; January 03, 2006 at 01:57 AM.


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  7. #7

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    "The leathality is suppose to be low, battles in EB are supposed to be long. Also because of the charge bonus bug the cavalry doesn't fight exactly how it should, but don't expect it to suddenly become vanilla cavalry or anything, it's not going to happen. If you're looking for quick battles that can be won almost soley by using heavy cavalry than you're playing the wrong mod."

    im not looking to crush stacks of spearmen, or heavy infantry with a single unit of cataphracts, but heavy cavlary should be devastating against medium sword infantry, and the heaviest (cataphracts) should be effective against heavy infantry. There have been cases in history where cataphracts have crushed roman legions. The cost, and upkeep of these heavy cavalry units is very high, and they should perform their moneys worth.

  8. #8
    Petronius's Avatar Biarchus
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    Do remember that there have also been cases of legionairies absolutely destroying and routing cataphracts (Tigranocerta), so the road runs both ways. I'd say that the advantages are less 'technical' and inherant than situational, although formed, trained infantry almost always has an upper hand over cavalry, as they can hold ground.

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  9. #9

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    dont take the accounts of Tigranakert too seriously. Roman propoganda was very good. I think its Servious Publious ( sorry if i got the name incorrect) who gives account of that battle. He talks about thousands and thousands of Armenians being killed, with only like 5 romans loosing their lives. We can not also forget that as much as infantry was trained, good cavalry was trained also. If infantry was trained to hold their line against horses charging at them, cavlary was trained to go through infantry. Also i do not see the reasoning for having these heavy cavlary if they were not effective. The cost of the horse, the armour to bard the horse, and the full body armour of the rider is alot of investment in something thats going to be crushed by guys holding a shield and sword.

  10. #10
    Maethius's Avatar Centenarius
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    Overall I find the cavalry in EB to be nicelly effective....charging someone in the arse, that is.
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  11. #11

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    I find cavarly to be very effiective, the good ones like cataphracts, sacred band, compainons, thesslian, etc can kill whole enemy units with little losses, even by only charging once and then meele fighting.
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  12. #12
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petronius
    Do remember that there have also been cases of legionairies absolutely destroying and routing cataphracts (Tigranocerta), so the road runs both ways. I'd say that the advantages are less 'technical' and inherant than situational, although formed, trained infantry almost always has an upper hand over cavalry, as they can hold ground.
    Exception, not a rule. I believe they were surprised, and the battle was a complete upset. Something like cornering the cataphracts by a river due to their impetuoso. In short, the Romans SHOULD have lost. Lucullus got quite lucky he managed to whack the nobles. The Armenian nobility was considered superior in combat prowess to the romans, but the rest was generic auxilliary forces and assorted rabble. Seeing the cataphracts rout caused Tigranes the Great the battle.
    Cataphracts have historical sources saying they caused soldiers to wet themselves at the sight of a charge, or simply break and run. They are said to have killed the first rank of a phalanx upon impact. Thats gotta mean something.

  13. #13
    Clibby's Avatar Praetor Maximus
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    I actually have found the Macedonian Bodyguard Calvalry to be a little too strong (playing on VH/H). I mean my greek calvalry proforms like I would expect them to, but 125 Macedonian bodyguards just anhilated 500 Taxeis Hoplitai and 100 Merc Long Spear hoplites (forgot the name, cost about 3500)as well as killing my general all beacuse noone could kill the Macedonian Cavalry. They just charged straight through 3 lines of phalanxes in the main army, then turned around and destroyed the ones flanking them, then finished off the main army. This all happened in a city with limited mobility meaning phalanxes should have an advantage. This is also not the first time they have done this to me nor are just the bodyguards overpowered, the Hippeis Thessalikoi are as well. Are the phalanxes suppossed to be that bad, or are the Macedonian cavalry just that good?





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  14. #14

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    I agree that Makedonian royal bodyguard heteroi are awfully powerful...dunno if thats a good or a bad thing.

  15. #15
    Caio Mario's Avatar Civis
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    Well.... I'm playing with Macedon...
    I think cavarly is not so bad in melee combat (my heteroi are strong... but I never charge a phalanx from the front).
    I think the charge must be correct!! They do not charge!! (even if they had 60 of charge!!) They start charging... then stop on the enemy soldier even if I charge them from the rear or flanks!
    In RTR the cavalry was .... ("esagerata" in italian.... mmm I'm looking for the right word..) too strong!! With the general bodyguard you could charge phalanx from the front and WIN!!! I'd like in EB that heavy cavarly can be able to do devasting charge on flanks and rear (of phalanxs of course) and on front of sword-armed medium infantry! At least cavarly like companions, cataphracts.....

    What do you think?

  16. #16

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    I think this is a serious concern and something I hope the team will consider for future versions. The Makadonian Cavalry IS too strong, but other havy cavalry such as Cataphrakts, Companians, and Sacred Band, are just too weak. A charge of 60 is good, but with only an attack of 9-11, it just isn't enough.

    I'm not sure if it is because we are still playing 1.2, but the Cav charges just die. I have charged engaged infantry from the rear many times, only to have the cavalry stop at the rear rank and engage, rather than causing havoc among them.

    Serious concern indeed in my opinion.
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  17. #17
    Caio Mario's Avatar Civis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis13

    I'm not sure if it is because we are still playing 1.2, but the Cav charges just die. I have charged engaged infantry from the rear many times, only to have the cavalry stop at the rear rank and engage, rather than causing havoc among them.

    Serious concern indeed in my opinion.
    Yes... that is what I said.... the charge die!!

  18. #18

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    Charge die? A charge cant die because it never lives. The Charge failed is probably what you mean...

    I dunno I see some people claim cavalry is too powerful and others claiming it is not strong enough. Personally I feel like the Makedon Heteroi bodyguards are built like tanks defense wise they seem a bit too powerful. Offense wise I think the heavy cavalry of Eb could use a bit tweaking up. I'm not too sure about medium or light cavalry yet as I havent gotten a chance to fully test them out in melee combat. Cavalry in general seems to be extremely scarce and very expensive in EB, even the crappy light cavalry. Eb almost forces me to input the add_money cheat if I wanna keep playing...I'm so weak! It seems unbalanced because the Makedon generals get such effective bodyguards while factions like Epieros and Pontos get crappier royal bodyguards.

  19. #19

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    I just witnessed a case of superpowered nature of the AI Generals. it was Roman, and I saw them effectivley chase my fleeing General (Who lived, thank god) through a phalanx, and just..butcher everything.

    I personally think removing the HP is the best idea. A general could die from an arrow just as any other warrior might, and there should be no distinction in the health of a generals cavalry over his factions closest comparison. Not like 'whoah, I'm guarding the general, and he lets me survive arrows'

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahiga
    I just witnessed a case of superpowered nature of the AI Generals. it was Roman, and I saw them effectivley chase my fleeing General (Who lived, thank god) through a phalanx, and just..butcher everything.

    I personally think removing the HP is the best idea. A general could die from an arrow just as any other warrior might, and there should be no distinction in the health of a generals cavalry over his factions closest comparison. Not like 'whoah, I'm guarding the general, and he lets me survive arrows'
    Agreed, good idea.
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