Major plot holes in the bible

[Helm]

Then what has been keeping me from killing/hurting others and why do I help people?

You would need a reason to want to hurt/kill others but just about anyone can be provided with one, humans tend to turn a bit nasty in the right situation.

[newt]

Including the "faithful" but their faith hasn't prevented them from doing it. In fact it often encourages it.

[Helm]

Including the "faithful" but their faith hasn't prevented them from doing it.

Religion is a bit like the Force from Star Wars, on the lightside it encourages people to be compasionate and caring toward others and the darkside encourages oppression and violence. So it's not particularly straightforward but I think by far the most of the faithful are lightsiders of the Force, they'll be better people than they otherwise would probably have been.

[newt]

I view that as a crutch. Some of us don't need to be forced to be good, we just are.

[Helm]

I view that as a crutch. Some of us don't need to be forced to be good, we just are.

Genuinely spiritual people are always very good people, if everyone was spiritual the world would be a much nicer place for it. Though only a select few religious people actually are spiritual, but then you don't se yhat spiritual materialist atheists to be fair. And everyone has a crutch of some description, it could be drink for instance.

[newt]

We're talking about morality being the way to distinguish the faithful from the non-faithful. Back to the subject please...

[Helm]

And spiritual people being good people are more moral than people on average who aren't spiritual and so not necessarily good (though they can still be), so we are still on subject. People who have genuine faith in a spiritual belief tend to be spiritual.

[newt]

And spiritual people being good people are more moral than people on average who aren't spiritual and so not necessarily good (though they can still be), so we are still on subject. People who have genuine faith in a spiritual belief tend to be spiritual.

Sorry, I'm looking for an answer to this:

And morality being the only means to distinguish the faithful from the not.

Spiritual does not = faithful.

[Helm]

I suppose you can be spiritual without a faith in anything at all but it's certainly more much more difficult and spiritual people tend to develop some kind of religious faith as the two often go together. But it's more common to be faithful and not spiritual, I'm sure Tom Cruise has a lot of faith in Scientology but he's barking mad rather than spiritual.

[newt]

It may not be common but it's becoming more so. IMO they are true morals because there is no coercion involved. My compassion and empathy keeps me from doing harm to others, not the promise of an afterlife with God or the threat of an eternal hell.

Secular spirituality is the natural evolution of spirituality. Some people see how the Bible doesn't make sense and don't want to do mental gymnastics to "make it work" so their spirituality comes from within.

[Helm]

Spiritual people don't particularly care about rewards or punishments either they just have big hearts, and to have a big heart is to be drawn toward faith because faith is from the heart not the head. Well it can be of the head as well there is the whole philosophical angle to consider.

[newt]

Spiritual people don't particularly care about rewards or punishments either they just have big hearts, and to have a big heart is to be drawn toward faith because faith is from the heart not the head. Well it can be of the head as well there is the whole philosophical angle to consider.

Says you. All of the kindest people I know have no faith, but they are very spiritual.

[Tacitursa]

And free will being logically incoherent to refute

I dont beleive free will exists, Can you give some good examples of you using free will.

By being out of time, you'd obviously know what happened in the future as well as in the past. The only thing is that those things in the future were not caused by the past, but you do know them having known the future.

What were they caused by then?

[Squiggle]

Right back at you, find an actual argument against the problem of evil and I'll give you a counter argument, I've already countered your last one, look back on our posts. Your inability to admit you're wrong isn't my problem.

Your the one arguing the problem of evil, your the one making the claims. I've addressed your points, and you've ardently refused- for a page or more- to validate any of your points or to respond to my own [look back on your own posts]. So no "same to you" isnt going to cut it. Lame attempt at avoiding the fact that you have no arguments.

Revealed to you? In person? Have the angels come and visited you and spent hours upon hours attempting to explain how the mind of a being we can't even fit the concept of into our heads could possibly think? Even to believe that we can understand how such a being would think and intend how the world works is outrageously arrogant and completely overoptimistic of our mental capabilities.

Above the bold is idiotic, and the bold itself is ignorant of the bible soo.

God, your Christian God, falls under all the same logical confines as an abstract generic God with the same absolute traits. Saying "The bible says so" about free will gives you no authority in a logical argument.

You kept baselessly asserting that my belief in free will is random, yet it comes from Christian theology, you kept randomly asserting that my "knowledge of Gods mind" is arrogant, yet it comes from Christian theology, etc. So yeah, your arguing from a generic concept of God and not mine. And your doing a piss poor job of it, too. Considering you've refused to actually ye know, debate, for the last page and a half.

I didn't read it as "this is how it is", I believe it to be the way it is if your God exists. You did not provide a counter argument of why it wasn't. Produce an argument or stop posting.

Produce an argument as to why you think it is, dont just write the post in a way in which I either assume your an idiot or I assume your making an argument in a very indirect way [without any points, just more mindless assertions].

Saying "I did it! Look at me!" Doesn't actually help anyone reading this thread believe you actually did it. So go on, produce your argument against a problem which has troubled philosophers for centuries and remains unsolved. Be a genius.

Already did, it hasnt, and its on the other page.

[SigniferOne]

I dont beleive free will exists, Can you give some good examples of you using free will.

Can you give me some examples of you seeing color blue?

What were they caused by then?

The mechanical parts still by the same causal factors as what you'd say. Those where man is involved, caused by his will.

[Tacitursa]

Can you give me some examples of you seeing color blue?

Sure, Looking at the ocean or the sky

[Silver Guard]

Your the one arguing the problem of evil, your the one making the claims. I've addressed your points, and you've ardently refused- for a page or more- to validate any of your points or to respond to my own [look back on your own posts]. So no "same to you" isnt going to cut it. Lame attempt at avoiding the fact that you have no arguments.

I have yet to see a single working argument against the problem of evil, either post one or show me the time you refuted the century-old theological problem.

Above the bold is idiotic, and the bold itself is ignorant of the bible soo.

Are you calling me an idiot for calling you out on revelation? Go on, how was it revealed to you?
The bible produces and idea of an anthropomorphic God because that is the only idea of a creator we can understand. That doesn't make it right. Saying "the bible says so" isn't an argument. Try again.

You kept baselessly asserting that my belief in free will is random, yet it comes from Christian theology, you kept randomly asserting that my "knowledge of Gods mind" is arrogant, yet it comes from Christian theology, etc. So yeah, your arguing from a generic concept of God and not mine. And your doing a piss poor job of it, too. Considering you've refused to actually ye know, debate, for the last page and a half.

Again, saying "the bible says so" isn't an argument. If I claim the bible's idea of God is logically inconsistent, it's up to you to produce a counter argument, not just "the bible says so, so it must be right", which is exactly what saying "it comes from Christian theology" means.

Produce an argument as to why you think it is, dont just write the post in a way in which I either assume your an idiot or I assume your making an argument in a very indirect way [without any points, just more mindless assertions].

If you continue calling me an idiot you'll get reported, cut out the personal attacks.
Yet again, produce an argument to why God isn't how I say he is, or stop posting.

[SigniferOne]

Sure, Looking at the ocean or the sky

No I want you to give me an example of YOUR experiences with color blue. I can look at the ocean and see something different. I can be colorblind and see it in shades of grey. So go on, explain how you see color blue to me.

[newt]

No I want you to give me an example of YOUR experiences with color blue. I can look at the ocean and see something different. I can be colorblind and see it in shades of grey. So go on, explain how you see color blue to me.

What is this? Only faithful people have morals? Then what has been keeping me from killing/hurting others and why do I help people?
(No, it's not fear of the law...)

Still waiting...

[Tacitursa]

No I want you to give me an example of YOUR experiences with color blue. I can look at the ocean and see something different. I can be colorblind and see it in shades of grey. So go on, explain how you see color blue to me

Im not sure what your getting at, is there a point to this and what does it have to do with free will?

And you still havent answered my request.