Possible uses of Client system

[GodEmperor Nicholas]

As you may have recognized, part of the new civitate system is the the client system like ancient romans had. The nominator of a new civitate to be takes a personal responsibility for his new member in order to encourage only worthy, good members to be nominated.

So far the only purpose is that we assume people will only nominate good members, because otherwise they look like idiots, and are partly responsible, for poor members being made civitates.

At present however there is nothing else that can be seen as a benefit or rationa'l behind the client system, so I am asking the civitates to offer any possible ideas or reasoning behind it. This is a good time because we have just started this new system and we might as well implement it well from the start.

So any ideas or comments are appreciated.

Obviously, should any member feel left out being a civitate without a patron, feel free to PM a member of staff or other civitate to get one. As I said before, there really is no incentive for this other than being able to actually identify yourself with a member of staff or senior civitate in the forum, the possible benefits of such a thing I leave up to you at present.
Just wanted to say that you shouldnt feel left out

Nor should this become some sort of pissing contest about getting clients, as before members are encouraged to remember that clients misdeeds WILL be held against a patron.

Cheers,

NM

P.S. posting to ask for a possible patron on this thread or any other thread will just be met with a deletion--its for PM only

[nico-san]

When can we start .Do we talk to you first or talk to them and tell them to talk to you.
Cheers! *cheers*

[GodEmperor Nicholas]

We have started.

The rules are relatively clear on the matter:

Only Patricans may nominate, and they are members with 800 (?) posts. They can ask a promising candidate if they are interested in being a civitate. If that member accepts, they must write a short paragraph explaining that they understand the responsibilities of a civitate, and why they want to be one.

The patron then PM's a member of staff, who starts a vote in the staff forum for that member. If they pass, they are admitted as a civitate, and the patron and client may display there relationship in there profile if they so wish.

NM

[smoke]

First of all let me say i think this is a great idea.

But I can't help wondering: 'What is in it for us patrons?' We get boo'ed rightly for bringing in a poor civ., but don't get anything when we bring in a good one...

Maybe some addition to a persons' status or something can be added.

Either way i think i have found a suitable candidate. I'll let you know as soon as i get a reply from him.

-_-

[Phobos]

Just as clarification, I was of the opinion that one reached Patrician status at 500 posts (and I noticed you were also unsure), could anyone give the exact number?

[Kazak borispavlovgrozny]

Originally posted by Phobos@Jul 19 2004, 09:01 PM
Just as clarification, I was of the opinion that one reached Patrician status at 500 posts (and I noticed you were also unsure), could anyone give the exact number?

no muber, just 2 months as civitate.

[the Black Prince]

could i next ask then, who are the patricians?

[smoke]

If that member accepts, they must write a short paragraph explaining that they understand the responsibilities of a civitate, and why they want to be one.

That sound rather school-like, don't you think? I'd rather have the staff examine his/her behaviour and posts and then post some kind of rapport on him.

But writing a short essay on it?

-_-

[Kazak borispavlovgrozny]

Originally posted by smoke@Jul 20 2004, 03:50 AM

If that member accepts, they must write a short paragraph explaining that they understand the responsibilities of a civitate, and why they want to be one.

That sound rather school-like, don't you think? I'd rather have the staff examine his/her behaviour and posts and then post some kind of rapport on him.

But writing a short essay on it?

-_-

simply to make sure you have read the syntagma and UNDERSTAND IT.

[smoke]

Okay my message has been answered, but no definitive answer yet.

He (yes it's a man ) should hurry up though, i am almost outta here B)

-_-

[GodEmperor Nicholas]

could i next ask then, who are the patricians?

Dude, read the post above.

Just as clarification, I was of the opinion that one reached Patrician status at 500 posts (and I noticed you were also unsure), could anyone give the exact number?

no muber, just 2 months as civitate.

In reply to smoke:

But I can't help wondering: 'What is in it for us patrons?' We get boo'ed rightly for bringing in a poor civ., but don't get anything when we bring in a good one...

Maybe some addition to a persons' status or something can be added.

I think that IS added, as members with more patrons will be showing themselves to be contributing to the forum, and it certainly a better judgemend that sheer postcount. Now it, like postcount, will rely more on QUALITY than quantity, so recruiting the dregs of society will not be acceptable.

I think a member with a few great civitates as clients will show himself to be a very worthy addition to the staff when the next opening is made. I suspect having a member of good standing nominate you will be viewed most favorably by the staff when they vote.

Eventually it should naturally mesh into a pyrimidal, ordered structure like that of ancient rome, and I can program in C++ well enought that I will probably write a program in a few months (if this works) that with a standardised format for all the members sigs stating there patrons and clients, will allow one to visually see the interconnectedness of the forum as a series of hubs and nodes, which sounds cool to me. Thoughts?

NM

[smoke]

Originally posted by GodEmperor Nicholas@Jul 20 2004, 10:34 AM
Eventually it should naturally mesh into a pyrimidal, ordered structure like that of ancient rome, and I can program in C++ well enought that I will probably write a program in a few months (if this works) that with a standardised format for all the members sigs stating there patrons and clients, will allow one to visually see the interconnectedness of the forum as a series of hubs and nodes, which sounds cool to me. Thoughts?

NM

Hmmm interesting...

-_-

[Acutulus]

What happens when your clients start getting their own clients? Seems like that could be a little confusing. I don't like to close doors, but maybe everyone who was a civitate before this new system came into effect should be a patrician, and then others can be elected after they have proven themselves.

[GodEmperor Nicholas]

Uhh Roman Patrons had there own clients, and there clients had clients, etc. all the way down to slaves, who were "clients" of there masters.

We wont elect Patricians, that would only add another level to the grouping, which I dont see why we would need that. (I would rename them Senators if we wanted to do that anyway)

It will be pretty easy to see who has clients-they will post it in there sigs. And the clients will paste there single patron in there sig.

And new civitates arent automatically patrons, it takes time, and that is critical time since those members are closely examined in that time.

NM

[the Black Prince]

i meant, which civitates are patricians, actual names...


how on earth do we know if we, or anyone else, has been a patrician for two months? only the staff can tell us...

it might be wise to create a new forum group, based on the civitates, for the patricians. then we'd all have the forum rank like centurion, or a special title, and member group, patrician.


last i counted there were 67 civitates.
how many our patricians, plus, i'm guessing all the staff would be as well, as all staff have civitate powers of voting.

[rububula]

Looks to me like we're heading down the road to fuedalism.

Remember the good old days, of the big fight between TBP and various other admins? Imagine this scenario:

The big name members, Boris, TBP, Sibs, etc, would each eventually have a pretty long tree. And the nature of the system, where one member has one patron, means that the trees will never cross.

In a TBP confrontation level crisis, low level members are naturally going to side with their patrons. What at one time was an isolated conflict now becomes a huge flame war that splits the entire TWC community.

And if a baron (er, patron) wants to come out on top in an argument with another lord, he would want to have the most knights (new civitates) backing him up.

In a month the TWC will look like the balkans, with the admins at each others throats and the new posters taking sides to get in good with the winner, meanwhile building up their own entourage to try and climb up the political ladder themselves. I predict chaos in the streets!


This is a big exaggeration. Obviously. But arguments do happen, and when they do nothing good will come of the patronage (feudal) system. A big chart showing the organization of the TWC sounds nice, but the idea of a regimented society is contrary to the spirit of the syntagma. I don't care whether the Romans did it, they were all bulemic anyway.

[Kazak borispavlovgrozny]

Originally posted by rububula@Jul 22 2004, 05:51 PM
Looks to me like we're heading down the road to fuedalism.

Remember the good old days, of the big fight between TBP and various other admins? Imagine this scenario:

The big name members, Boris, TBP, Sibs, etc, would each eventually have a pretty long tree. And the nature of the system, where one member has one patron, means that the trees will never cross.

In a TBP confrontation level crisis, low level members are naturally going to side with their patrons. What at one time was an isolated conflict now becomes a huge flame war that splits the entire TWC community.

And if a baron (er, patron) wants to come out on top in an argument with another lord, he would want to have the most knights (new civitates) backing him up.

In a month the TWC will look like the balkans, with the admins at each others throats and the new posters taking sides to get in good with the winner, meanwhile building up their own entourage to try and climb up the political ladder themselves. I predict chaos in the streets!


This is a big exaggeration. Obviously. But arguments do happen, and when they do nothing good will come of the patronage (feudal) system. A big chart showing the organization of the TWC sounds nice, but the idea of a regimented society is contrary to the spirit of the syntagma. I don't care whether the Romans did it, they were all bulemic anyway.

1. That sounds cool.
2. Perspective. Perspective. Rub, my dear friend, Forums dotn stride on the hegelian pendulum. This is just a little trinket. The syntagma doesnt allow for such things, after a patrician gets a civitate, the only thing he [the Civ] becomes is a liability, not a "knight"....
3. Nice story thouh, i enjoyed it much...as always

[rububula]

Well I guess I'd better start building up my stable of civitates!

[scipiusromanus]

I am not sure of this, but I want to submit the idea to you for more thougts: We are all tired of little nazis and petty spamers in the forums, so PERHAPS we should deny write access to newcomers on forums more likely to develop flames, such as general discussion and fingerprints of the past.

After the newcomer has shown himself to be a nice guy (he may even be a hopeless reactionary, but must prove himself to be able to keep a civil tone and provide solid arguments in a discussion) we allow him to post in those forums too. If the criterion for this is to attain civitateship, then he also has a patron to vouch for him and to guarantee that he will not spam stupid stuff like "kill all jews", "faggys must die" et certera.

Please think about it and if the idea sounds good, how can we further refine it in a pratical and not too opressive way.

As for rububula concerns, I think it depends on how the client system is implemented. From what I understand the patron does not "own" the civitate, he merely puts his a$$ on the line by saying "please accept this guy, I guarantee his good behavior". Many clubs and private societies do that to some extent, in the sense that they demand that a newcomer be invited from someone within. Hell, even orkut (www.orkut.com) does that! You have to be invited in, so whomever invites you in has to be a little cautious or it will reflect badly on him.

[Kazak borispavlovgrozny]

Originally posted by scipiusromanus@Jul 23 2004, 12:58 PM
As for rububula concerns, I think it depends on how the client system is implemented. From what I understand the patron does not "own" the civitate, he merely puts his a$$ on the line by saying "please accept this guy, I guarantee his good behavior". Many clubs and private societies do that to some extent, in the sense that they demand that a newcomer be invited from someone within. Hell, even orkut (www.orkut.com) does that! You have to be invited in, so whomever invites you in has to be a little cautious or it will reflect badly on him.

exactly