Units to merge or delete

[Gnostiko]

Chipping in my 2 cents for the Romans...

Tears of Destiny
"Get rid of Latinikon, and replace them with a generic"

Latinkon and christian guard could be merged into one "mercenary western knights" unit.

Agreed, especially as cavalry and infantry when you consider:

Merge Roman Alammanoi with generic Feudal Food Knights. Same stats (don't know about morale) fulfills the same role. As it is know, the Alammanoi have lower recruitment price but slightly higher upkeep.

(CC beat me to the punch anyway)

Or you could just give them access to the mercenary german knights unit. Which I think has been suggested already.

That was meeeeee! (you remembered! )

I also agree on merging Akritai with Akontistai (keeping the former, losing the latter).

Get rid of Turkish Ghulams only on the provision EDU/B is tweaked to give them access to Ghulam infantry/cavalry

[PaleBlueDot]

Delete: Retarded Norse archers.
Add: historical and awesome archers.

Less specific: Fewer late era units. Statistics have shown that only a very few player ever reach those times. And even so, I bet most of their armies are mostly early and high era units anyway. More options early on. Be creative and find out what existed back then.

[Polycarpe]

Merge the "Late" unit like Late Musketeer, Late Pikemen, etc. And tweak stats a bit.

[misterbull]

Merge the "Late" unit like Late Musketeer, Late Pikemen, etc. And tweak stats a bit.

What!? They serve their purposes. Late Musketeers are different from Musketeers and same goes for the different pikemen. Tercio Pikemen also differ from regular pikemen (not late).

I propose deletion for:
Scots Guard (can't find historical info)
Flagellants (fantasy unit?)
Camel Gunners (from what I found this was used after medieval period; more suited for empire total war which they used)
Hashashim (already said; fantasy unit)
Canons of the Holy Sepulcher (no evidence this was even a military order; they didn't engage in combat)
Dismounted Italian MAA (can't find historical info)

Merge:
Akinjis + Desert Raiders because they are somewhat the same thing as Akinjis were supposedly desert raiders/slaves/convicts/deserters

[Polycarpe]

They did but they are coming too late ("late" how funny ). And if your're playing 2TPY, it's almost impossible, unless your're really stick to your campaign, to ever see them.

Dismounted Italian MAA: They are historical in a way, theyare Men-at-Arm, but I could agree to merge the two units of MAA into one (take a space for nothing anyway)

The Order of the Holy Sepulcher might not be considered as a military order but logically, only knights could become Canons. In a way it's plausible to do a "guard" unit and it helps the CS to hold against Jihad against Jerusalem.

Scots Guard was real and historical, founded in 1418 by the Valois Charles VII of France, to be personal bodyguards to the French monarchy.

Flagellants, Agreed

Camel Gunners Better to ask RW for that matter.

Hashashim, Agreed

[Lanier]

I agree completely with merging the late gunpowder infantry. They seem like a waste of unit slots to me

[RollingWave]

Camel gunners are generally too far out of the timeframe, they miggght be real by around the later 1500s . in the sense that guns proliferated in tribal areas of Northern Africa rapidly, since by then the Moorish dynasties generally had very limited control over the already traditionally indepdent tribes. And tribal warfare was always the norm, coupled with their better access to European traders.

I forgot if it was Leo Africanus or the Lusiadas that wrote about how every tribe in Maghareb had their own stash of guns. either way both guys lived in the 16th C (Leo Africanus more like late 15th C to early 16th C)

So I guess in that sense Camel gunners wouldn't be THAT absurdly unhistorical.

[Rikokrates]

Merge ships to a paper, siscor, stone scheme for all factions except those with historically strong navys who should still be able to recruit "elite" ships, or maybe just give them xp and or reduced recruitment/upkeep costs to provide them with an edge.

Remove:
Gwent raiders-
Merge all militias and rename levy etc.....
ALL Fantasy units

Is this to create space for Georgia and the Abbasids? :-)

[Meneth]

20 slots have been freed in MSC. I plan to integrate Sweden once CC finishes BftB2 for SS6.4, and Georgia if the people who said they'd do it ever get done.

[Rikokrates]

Any news on the other faction to be added?

[Meneth]

Abbasids might possibly be added, but then the Timurids would have to be removed.
RollingWave is, AFAIK, working on implementing the Abbasids in his sub-mod.

[RollingWave]

Yup, I'll do Abbasid as soon as I finish the first version of CHIP.

With 2TPY frame though, we really could / should go about removing some extremely late units . Camel Gunners / Mounted Arquebus / late musket / Cossack units etc... are all generally too far out of the game's context. (and/or not real)

In my current roster, I deleted a ton of units, even aftering adding in a ton...

a partial list of units I deleted ... (not counting those that I had similar function replacements for)

Sherwood archer
Gwent Raider
Hashhasim
Hashhasim Merc
Hasham
Turkish Ghulam
Battle Field Assasin
Turkoman Merc
Viking Mercenary
Dievas Guard
Giltine's chosen
Archer Militia / EE Archer Militia/ ME Archer Militia
Crossbow Militia / EE Crossbow Militia
S Peasant / S Peasant Archer / ME Peasant / EE Peasant
Armored Horse archer
Steppe Alans
Kasogi
Mercenary Monster Ribat
Highland Archers
Armored Clergy / Dismounted Armored Clergy (might replace with less armored version later on)
Militia Sergeant (not sure what this is suppose to represent. Sergeants later on were kinda like Sheriffs but why a unit?)
Merchant Cavalry Militia
Pavis Crossbow Militia
Genoese Crossbow Miliita (those guys aren't militias)
Pavise Spearmen Militia
Highland archers (replaced with javelin / spear unit)
Albanian Cavalry
Transelvanian Peasants
Slav Levis
Bosnian Archer
Balkan Archer
Knights of St Larsus and Dismounted Version
Eddessan Guard
All the Templar xxx unit except the knights and sergeant
Constable of Jerusalem.
Religious Fanatics (merged with Pilgrims)

[Ilkanor]

Hi Rolling Wave,

i am really happy that you are making the abbasids. I have one Question, i have read books over the middle east in this timeline (osprey and so on) afaik the early seljuks and the abbasids and also the kwarezmians relied on the ghulam system for elite troops. I know that there are ghulam lance cav and dismounted version, but they were also famous for HA and Shock Foot Troops. There is a pretty imbalance between East and West units and what i have seen in your mod you are going the right way.

I would propose some kickass units as it was historicly for the middle eastern faction......they should be massively expensive and should not related to recruitement pools....better be very expensive. For example the ghulam system in the middle east was afaik not present in europe or so on.....slaves who were dedicated from boyhood to warfare and were professionel soldiers.

Some Units in Broken Crescent are well done....HA who are terribly expensive but are good at close combat or lancing as it was in historicly in the past.

[PaleBlueDot]

[Polycarpe]

I actually did mate in my submod

[PaleBlueDot]

I actually did mate in my submod

I have knowledge of this, but I shall not rest until every submod includes better Norse archers. My next target shall be the "realistic archers" mod, that somehow gives longbowmen an attack of 7, while the norse archers still only have 2. Ridiculous.

[misterbull]

I have knowledge of this, but I shall not rest until every submod includes better Norse archers. My next target shall be the "realistic archers" mod, that somehow gives longbowmen an attack of 7, while the norse archers still only have 2. Ridiculous.

Mind giving me some links to info on norse archers that show their prowess? I'm just curious because you're so obsessed with NORSE ARCHERS.

[RollingWave]

Hi Rolling Wave,

i am really happy that you are making the abbasids. I have one Question, i have read books over the middle east in this timeline (osprey and so on) afaik the early seljuks and the abbasids and also the kwarezmians relied on the ghulam system for elite troops. I know that there are ghulam lance cav and dismounted version, but they were also famous for HA and Shock Foot Troops. There is a pretty imbalance between East and West units and what i have seen in your mod you are going the right way.

I would propose some kickass units as it was historicly for the middle eastern faction......they should be massively expensive and should not related to recruitement pools....better be very expensive. For example the ghulam system in the middle east was afaik not present in europe or so on.....slaves who were dedicated from boyhood to warfare and were professionel soldiers.

Some Units in Broken Crescent are well done....HA who are terribly expensive but are good at close combat or lancing as it was in historicly in the past.

Yeah, on a general level I improved the ability level of ghulams considerably, and also i moved some of the Persian xxx units to Ghulam. so now the Ghulams have a more complete roster, mostly in the superior to elite range (and almost all disciplined and highly trained, making them usually somewhat better than comparable level units)

[Forever Steadfast]

LOL - awesome.

Scots Guard (can't find historical info)

The first recordings of Scottish soldiers fighting for the French were found in 1295 or so. Or so Wikipedia says. I know their reputation for being inaccurate, but I'm sure the unit isn't one big made up entity. Byzantium Guard, seems to know more about the Guards.

[Jambat]

The first recordings of Scottish soldiers fighting for the French were found in 1295 or so. Or so Wikipedia says. I know their reputation for being inaccurate, but I'm sure the unit isn't one big made up entity. Byzantium Guard, seems to know more about the Guards.

The Garde Ecossaise were formed around 1420 by Charles of France, when he plucked a hundred of the best Scottish troops serving in his armies to be his personal bodyguard. About thirty years later two dozen Scottish nobles reinforced the unit. They saved the King from multiple assassination attempts and were very much a real unit.

The Scottish had been fighting in French/Frankish armies since the 700s though.