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Thread: 7/11/1917

  1. #81

    Default Re: 7/11/1917

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan the Man View Post
    I don't think "propagandistic" is actually a word...
    I'm quite sure it's a word:

    — pro·pa·gan·dist noun or adjective
    — pro·pa·gan·dis·tic adjective
    — pro·pa·gan·dis·ti·cal·ly adverb
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...propagandistic


    Nevertheless, I can't possibly imagine why. One of the main benefits of education is to teach people their rights. Whereas in the Soviet system, for most of it's history, they had no rights.
    Actually they did have rights. And "teaching rights" is far from the only, or even main, purpose of education. People tend to get an education to improve their lives. Take my family for example: they would probably still be digging dirt as peasants if not for free education.

    Education matters very little if you live in a hole, are led by a dictator, and make next to nothing to support yourself. And don't get started on Soviet entitlement programs, we all know they did little to help anything.
    And is this worse than Tsarist Russia? I don't think so.

  2. #82
    dogukan's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: 7/11/1917

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Vwagen View Post
    QFT. At best it was "dictatorship on behalf of the proletariat".

    Not the same thing, I think we can agree.
    That idea, leadership on behalf on the proletariat is the thing which MOST hurted the socialist movements in the world. And yet it became so popular.

    As Marx said: Revolution will be the result of a proleter movement.

    Not a movement of guerillas, couping generals, dictators who reforms the system the way they see it fits.
    And I believe a parliment system would fail to achieve a true system change.

    Hence a movement from below, a conciouss class that believes in democracy is the key.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  3. #83

    Default Re: 7/11/1917

    The problem here is that the Soviet Union was not the perfection that some of you stand for, and also it was not hell, like 99% of the american people thinks. In fact socialism CAN work, the problem is that the Soviet Union was not the ideal place for a socialist revolution. If you all would stop being blind and foolish enough to believe in everything you read, it would be good to do a little research about socialist states. Tito's Yugoslavia would be a much better example of socialism.

    Also, to you americans who really believe that the USA is an example of democracy, please take an unbiased and closer look to your own system.
    Last edited by gll25; November 11, 2010 at 11:05 AM.

  4. #84
    Tiberios's Avatar Le Paysan Soleil
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    Default Re: 7/11/1917

    Quote Originally Posted by gll25 View Post
    Also, to you americans who really believe that the USA is an example of democracy, please take an unbiased and closer look to your own system.
    The US is an example of a democracy. Whether it's a good or bad example can be discussed.

  5. #85

    Default Re: 7/11/1917

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralle18 View Post
    The US is an example of a democracy. Whether it's a good or bad example can be discussed.
    Lat time I checked it was a republic.

  6. #86
    Tiberios's Avatar Le Paysan Soleil
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    Default Re: 7/11/1917

    And a democratic one.

  7. #87
    Jingles's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: 7/11/1917

    You call that two party dictatorship they've got over there democracy?

    Dayum.

    Just Dayum.

  8. #88

    Default Re: 7/11/1917

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Vwagen View Post
    You call that two party dictatorship they've got over there democracy?

    Dayum.

    Just Dayum.
    Finally someone who sees the USA as it really is

  9. #89
    Tiberios's Avatar Le Paysan Soleil
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    Default Re: 7/11/1917

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Vwagen View Post
    You call that two party dictatorship they've got over there democracy?

    Dayum.

    Just Dayum.
    Sure as hell more than many other nations around the world that's for sure. Now I never said that they were a prime example, but saying that the US isn't democratic in any way is just plain retarded.

    Quote Originally Posted by gll25 View Post
    Finally someone who sees the USA as it really is
    So there isn't democracy in the US?

  10. #90
    ★Bandiera Rossa☭'s Avatar The Red Menace
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    Default Re: 7/11/1917

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan the Man View Post
    So, what is YuriVII trying to prove here then?

    I also find it ironic, Bandiera, that after the Soviets banned the death penalty, it was brought back again under the authoritarian regime of the USSR.
    1921: Let's outlaw the death penalty! Yay!
    1937: You are hereby sentenced to death for opposing the righteous Comrades' Penalty of Death to Traitors!
    My point is, that, however long the revolution may have lasted, and however close to what it should have been it may have become, it was still replaced by a dictator, as it has with every other "communist" regime that has ever come about. What makes any of you think you'll be any different?
    Read some Trotsky to find out why that happened
    http://www.marxists.org/archive/trot...vbet/index.htm


  11. #91

    Default Re: 7/11/1917

    usa is a two party dicatorship with scant notions of representative democracy with an oligarchical presences (college of electors, who are not elected btw)

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