Native American Victory

[Col. Tartleton]

What would it take for the Native Americans to maintain their independence?

[Erebus Pasha]

What timescale are you thinking of. Are we talking about the early period of initial Amerindian and European contact or the 18th and 19th centuries?

[Col. Tartleton]

Well I'd say it has to be at or before Tecumseh because he was too little too late. The Indigenous peoples were already slipping away as a presence on the continent as of Tippecanoe. That was their Antietam, their D-Day. They win big and they open up the road to Great Captain status with Alexander, Napoleon, Ghengis Khan, and Hannibal, etc. They lose or fail to have victory and the entire war is lost.

Ideally I'd be looking at a decisive victory rather then just having Tecumseh snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. I think to give a clearer image, what would it take for a modern "America" to be a Native American nation. Attack it however you like. If you want it to be 18/19th century you may be on the late side but still within the realm of the possible. You may want to plant seeds as early as the semi legendary Deganawida or Hiawatha. I can't expect even with victory for the culture to be preserved. I'm sure the Native Peoples would inherit some degree of European (or perhaps somewhere else's) culture. But at the very least that it would be a recognizably Native American nation (Most likely an Iroquois one).

[hellheaven1987]

Well, it does not change the fact that Native Americans were going to die in mass with the contact with Old World diseases, won or lost does not matter in the end.

[Erebus Pasha]

Well I'd say it has to be at or before Tecumseh because he was too little too late. The Indigenous peoples were already slipping away as a presence on the continent as of Tippecanoe. That was their Antietam, their D-Day. They win big and they open up the road to Great Captain status with Alexander, Napoleon, Ghengis Khan, and Hannibal, etc. They lose or fail to have victory and the entire war is lost.

Ideally I'd be looking at a decisive victory rather then just having Tecumseh snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. I think to give a clearer image, what would it take for a modern "America" to be a Native American nation. Attack it however you like. If you want it to be 18/19th century you may be on the late side but still within the realm of the possible. You may want to plant seeds as early as the semi legendary Deganawida or Hiawatha. I can't expect even with victory for the culture to be preserved. I'm sure the Native Peoples would inherit some degree of European (or perhaps somewhere else's) culture. But at the very least that it would be a recognizably Native American nation (Most likely an Iroquois one).

Well the war of 1812 and Northwest Indian War of the 1790's effectively killed off any hopes of Native American victory over the US and keeping their lands free of encroaching settlers. Certainly I see this in the defeat at Fallen Timbers rather than the War of 1812. Tecumseh's uprising was in a way a final stand against the US rather than preserving any notion of independent Amerindian nationhood in the Great Lakes region. And in both cases any positive result for the Amerindians in these wars depended on direct or indirect British support. When this was removed their fate was sealed.

[frank_garrett]

without the plagues i dont think the europeans whould have conquered that land. even with gunpowder the natives were too much

[Vanoi]

By the time of the American Revolution, i believe it was too late for them t win. Too many Europeans and American wiht better weapons and technology. Native Americans still had many people, but most of them would not unite to stop a common threat.

[Exarch]

for Washington to honour their treaties with the Indians

[Tiberios]

First of all they'd probably have to unite. But this wouldn't change the inferiority in technology they would have compared to the Americans or British depending on when they are supposed to unite.