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Thread: What do think of this IDEA for RTW Engine

  1. #1

    Default What do think of this IDEA for RTW Engine

    We have all heard the many ideas of improving this great Game by adding gunpowder, sea battles, & Air planes.(for modern themes to come of course) Along with improving AI & diplomacy. Or adding more cinematic like in STW had. And even some have suggested a third engine of First person for spies and assassins and even diplomats.
    But I have some other Cool Ideas that I want to through out to you.
    1. The ability to Hire & release Ancillary units for each character. I know the immediate draw backs are that it is one more things to manage in an already micromanaging game. But think about it, you could help characters out that had bad trait deficiencies. It makes no since to control the traits, because that is what make the character seem real. But if an empire knew that a general or family member had say badtaxman as a trait you could counter balance that with buying him a taxmerchant ancillary. He could cost you each turn like all other units. As well as a first time purchase cost. You could make it that only certain ancillaries could be purchased in a certain size cities with certain buildings, academies, large barracks etc. See the logic in this, if you want a General to be a great general you can surround him with great men (look at President Bush, many people think him to be incompetent, but he seems to have some good ancillaries ,Chaney and the like HA HA)
    Example: Drillmaster is a great ancillary to give to any General as well as Quartermaster, Heroic hero, doctor, dancer, and so on. If you could purchases these say in a huge city, they could be a great help to you. Say you want to retire the General and make him more of a governor, in a turn you let all the war type ancillaries go or transfer them to another and hire new managerial ones, like herald, goldsmith in a mining city and so on.
    I understand some ancillaries are like traits, in that they are friends that a character would gather in the times of life, (drinking companion) but most are folks that would be hired by the government to help mange. Also, if a certain ancillary stayed long enough with a character, that character could maybe develop that trait or change the bad one, depending on the “going back setting” of course.
    Consider this Example: You have a spy, you really want to get him into the city to open the gates, so you buy him a pet_monkey in your huge city with a aurora market in it, which increases his subterfuge and consequently the odds of him opening the gate.
    The ancillaries could say die like other Characters, like aged retainer might only be with you a few years, but that was enough to effect you character’s traits in the say four years you had him. Also, add some of them to the real time action. For example the sword bearer could be in the game or the Heroic Hero with a couple of hit points to him as part of your body guard. The Drill master out their sergeanting your troops . All of them with the possibility of dying makes the game that more cool.
    Lastly on this, the longer certain ancillaries stayed with you the better you become as a team. Increasing your traits as well as their own.
    2. With this in mind add the third engine of First person player.
    Example: You have purchased a dancer, pet_monkey and a poisoner, for your assassin. You send him in for the job. The screen loads with the first person engine. The scene is the Palace of the enemy Governor with a 35% chance of success. But that matters not, you are more in control of that now due to you first person action. You get the poison from your poisoner, or even have the ability to play each ancillary, you the poisoner mixing you toxins, then you send your dancer in distracting everyone’s attention, while your monkey goes for the cup of the governor. But wait what you did not spy out was the fact that the Governor has a eunuch body guard who could care less about the dancer and is watching what others are not. He Spies your monkey kills him and the dancer, and you and your poisoner escape with your life or not… Hmmmm
    3. Add your cinematic now to this mix. Your Spy has a personal trainer Ancillary that adds to his ability to scale walls or Palace walls. He goes in with the first person engine your playing him scaling the wall he slips and is discovered. Then the cinematic kick in you stand before the king he is in his night robe. He finds out who you are, declares war on your faction if not already, has you tortured to get things out of you, then cuts your head off! (So much for the teen rating.)
    Another example: your Diplomat has a interpreter ancillary, & a Dancer you go into the Royal thrown room in the Palace, You give the girl as a gift. And make your offer. He rejects it, you counter offer, he gets mad and in you presence kills your interpreter and sends you out. Or maybe He accepts you offer and they throw a party (cinematic) in celebration to your great deal.
    If you don’t want to play in the First person or don’t care for the Cinematic, because they get old you have the options of settle it out by percentage button and turn of Cinematics.
    What do ya’ll Think???
    Senator

  2. #2

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    I am totally agree with you! I wish the next total war game to be as you describe above! A mix of Spartan total warrior and of Rome total war!
    New pics on 24/4/2007

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Senator
    1. The ability to Hire & release Ancillary units for each character.
    Don't like the idea. I just don't like the idea of 'pimping' an average general so he becomes a seven star general at the age of 20 without fighting a single battle, by just buying some ancillaries on the market. It would be better to create a system that makes 1/2 of your family members average generals/gouvernors, 1/5 of them talented ones and 1/20 of them talented (even brilliant) generals or statesmen. In RTW, giving a 2-star 16 years old general an army to fight his way into Gaul can make him a 10-star one, in 20 or 50 years. Experience is the best teacher (like Cato said) but not all veteran leaders were brilliant.

    I like the idea of 'hiring' philosophers/teachers for children in your family. Good example is Aristotle, the most influencal philosopher ever, who was hired by Phillip to educate his son. Aristotle's way of thinking partly influenced Alexander's success in a very positive way. Ancillaries have too much influence on the character's traits. The great men of antiquity were influenced by their ancillaries but they didn't owe half of their abilities to these ancillaries. Making ancillaries more influencal when the character is younger than 16 or 18 years old is a better idea.

    I've always been a fan of more in-depth characters, one of the reasons why I love RTW. But I want more, I'm getting spoiled. I, as faction leader, want to be able to adopt a talented family member as my son, to guide him towards a carreer as king and commander...beloved by women and men...feared by his enemies...son of Zeus...Alexandros!
    In patronicum sub Tacticalwithdrawal
    Brother of Rosacrux redux and Polemides

  4. #4

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    I had a dream about a game like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honor&Glory inspired by Archer
    How much will I pay to sit in front of a TV and chase polygons?

  5. #5

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    I dont want to plot assassinations...id play theif 2 if i wanted to creep around in the shadows


    This is a strategy game!!

  6. #6

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    To Red Baron I say you have a good Point worth considering...
    OK, most of the Ancillaries only help the Character’s Command out in ways that are not directly related to command stars. Some yes, but only a star per one. But the others motivate the troops, either in Moral or in movement, which if they where present in the battle map would be motivational. The pumping up of the general is really what most generals are anyway. Most all generals historically had a staff of 5 to 10 men, without them they would be nothing.
    Maybe make it so that only certain ancillaries would be purchased while others earned as they already are. Maybe 5 to be bought 3 earned. As far as the educational ones, they do affect the influence and management ratings, quite a bunch. So this would allow the pumping up of them as Governors. This is why I say that if you buy the ancillary that in time the character would develop the trait so that they could get another one.

    To Marly I say…
    Ok I understand your point, all I am saying is that if you increase the game with these abilities you make the excitement of the Strategy come to life! It makes the Strategy FUN! You reap the fruit of your labor rather then playing a game that puts you in the set of pre-designed circumstances that are the same every time till you master it. You by strategy create your own set and become the master of the game!
    Senator
    PS Keep it up Folks

  7. #7
    Savage_Swede's Avatar Carolus Rex
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    Good ideas, especially the one with first person assassinations, it would add even more depth and complexity to the game.

    Sig by Lord Rahl
    Under the patronage of Obi Wan Asterix

    Europa Barbarorum, what RTW should have been.

  8. #8

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    I, and most other RTW lovers with me, don't play RTW too feel the excitement of sneaking behind enemy lines to assassinate the enemy general. If I want to do that, I'd better play Splinter Cell or some other shooter. RTW is about strategy, and CA has to focus on that. What do you like more, a game with very good strategy or a game with average first person and average strategy? I prefer the former. Adding more depth to the game is something we all dream about. But with depth I prefer better diplomacy, politics, characters, AI and realism: not unrealistic assassination missions.

    Senator, you say that most generals were nothing without their staff, and you're partly right. Roman generals were in fact amateurs in comparison with tough veterans like Pyrrhus and Hannibal: they'd only served for about a decade before becoming commander of a legion. They performed quite well because good education, training and a staff of veteran centurions, tribunes and military advisors of the family. But the great generals (Caesar, Alexander, Hannibal) didn't need their staff to become great. Sure, Caesar couldn't fight Pompeius without reliable men commanding his legions and Marcus Antonius watching his back in Rome, but Caesar wasn't made great by these men. Same goes for Alexander: his friends and generals were excellent officers and some of them would become great kings, but he was certainly better than them, at least in conquering.
    In patronicum sub Tacticalwithdrawal
    Brother of Rosacrux redux and Polemides

  9. #9

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    Ok Red,
    But would you not say that with a mega super software giant like Sega they could make a great strategy game as well as a great excitement game. What makes RTW great is the two worlds of Turn based strategy and Real-time action, I think adding First Person would really Make it Great. You don’t have to sacrifice anything when you have the budget arm of Sega behind you.
    As to the Unrealistic Assassination, that was just my mind taking what the game already gives us and playing out. Like the ancillaries that do exist in this strategy game of a Pet_monkey , cook, food taster, bodyguard, pet_lion. Just see your pet_monkey sprinkle poison given to him by your poisoner on the king’s food. Then see the Cook bring it into the eating Chamber of King, the food taster take a bit then choking falling dead on the kings Pet Lion . Then the caption assassination attempt fails. Just spicing it up man, if you don’t want to watch or play that then Auto resolve it and do it the old fashion way by the odds.
    Senator

  10. #10
    Semisalis
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    Having a First Person element is really dumb. Seriously, people who buy Rome: Total War are looking for a strategy game, not a game where you go aroiund killing people.

  11. #11
    shadowarmy75's Avatar Biarchus
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    The first person element could be optional, like the battles. If you like to play first person you could do it and if you are only looking for stadegy you could autoresolve it.

  12. #12
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    First person anything would require breaking the hardcodedness of the game. Doing so would be quite illegal.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by eXc|Imperator
    First person anything would require breaking the hardcodedness of the game. Doing so would be quite illegal.
    I think most people know that most ideas here are impossible to realise because RTW is too hardcoded. It's just nice to dream about a better RTW
    In patronicum sub Tacticalwithdrawal
    Brother of Rosacrux redux and Polemides

  14. #14

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    Alright, Let me Settle some of the thoughts.
    1. As said, if you don't like the first person you could just autoresolve.
    I have played games of rtw where i never fought one battle, just aut, resolve.
    2. It would not be hard for Sega, not some Game MODer to add this , just like when the game loads real time action from the battle map, so too it could load the first person.
    3. Playing first person, would not just be assassin, but spy and diplomat.
    4. Don't forget my other idea of this post of increased Cinematics. Like STW had. In time they might get boring but they really suck player in and that is what makes game popular. But First person keeps people hooked to games especially Multi-player. (But not with TB)
    In Conclusion of these thoughts. I really believe that The first Game that comes out and harnesses all three aspects of Computer playing Game, TB, FP, RT and does all three with top notched strategy, will find themselves with a blockbuster game!
    And I say RTW is not far from it.
    Senator

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