What's the point of Protectorates?

[MuhammadAus]

I'm currently playing Rome Total War v 1.3. I've read somewhere on this site that Protectorates are one-sided alliances where the "subjucated faction" (so to speak) cannot break the alliance unless the Protector breaks it first. I also read that when you have convinced another faction to become a Protectorate, the number of territories they control gets added to the total of territorities you control.

Now, I also read that apparently the original RTW had an error which enabled the subjucated faction to break the Protectorate Treaty at will and that apparently this bug has been fixed in a v 1.2 patch.

Well, I installed the v 1.2 patch and then Barbarian Invasion (which automatically upgrades RTW to v 1.3). I then modded RTW so that I started off with 5 million denarii so that I could quickly convince factions to become my protectorate. (Just offer 1 mill in cash, they'll surrender and then the next turn you get it back immediately).

So playing Julii, right at the start of the game, I had protectorate treaties with SPQR (yes, I set the initial diplomacy to war to allow me to bully them into submission), Britannia, Macedon and Egypt. I killed off the Brutii and Scipii.

Then Gaul declared war on me and this caused Britannia to tear up its Protectorate Treaty with me because it was already allied with Gaul and decided to side with them. I then asked Macedon what it would like in exchange for its map information and it then unilaterally declared that the protectorate treaty was over.

So obviously, contrary to what I'd read earlier on here, protectorate treaties CAN be broken by the subjucated faction at will despite the v 1.2 & 1.3 patches.

In which case, why bother with protectorates? I think it was really creative of CA to put it in there as a diplomacy option but it is obviously fairly useless as (unless you mod/cheat), you need to beat a faction to within an inch of their life and offer cash in order to convince them that maybe surrendering to you would be a better alternative than being exterminated by your conquering army... and if, after all that effort, they can turn around any time and say "Hey, remember how we surrendered to you? Well, I've changed my mind" then it makes the protectorate treaty totally useless.

You can form a regular alliance and get the same benefits as a protectorate treaty (i.e. just an alliance), and you won't need to offer 100,000 in cash to convince a stupid AI that is about to get its last city exterminated that maybe self preservation via a protectorate treaty is a good idea.

[Spiff]

If you think about it in real life terms, a nation would become a protectorate to preserve itself from being assimilated, as it were, but if in the future they thought they had nothing to fear from you, they would certainly have no reason to continue being a protectorate.

Theres no mystical force to keep an alliance like this together, either side should be able to break it whenever they want, but if the AI was coded properly however, they would realise that if they are under someones protection, there must be a good reason for it, and so to break this treaty would more often than not be a bad idea for them.

But the AI in Rome doesnt seem to think like that, so im not sure what the practical benefit is.. probably none as the AI seems to have no sense of self preservation

[Senator]

Agreed Spiffington! Good Answer. My answer to the Question is Simple. One, They not only Give their land to your count but they give you tribute each turn. Though in most cases they fall way behind in what they owe you. Two, when they are your protectors, you don't have to worry about the management of their cities, though by the time they agree to be a protector they only have one or two left.
On the thought of self preservation, It is hard to be a self preservationist and be a people of Honor and respect. That is why some factions will in a few short turns turn around and break their protection agreement. And more honorable ones will not make the agreement because they would rather die then to be slaves!
Senator

[Peter]

I think the protectorate thing is seriously bugged. The greeks offered me to be thier protectorate and i clicked yes. Next turn.. kling they attack my capital. I thought they must forget to notify that army or something. So the next time they demanded i looked around my region for armys and clicked yes. KLING they attacked my southern settlement with a army that came out of nowhere.i beat them and they demanded again and you probably know what will happen.

[Acamas]

I re-installed my RTW CD and played it without any patches. I had a file where I controlled all of the mediterranean and had a powerful navy, there was no other enemy ship or allied ship in my sea. To get more than 50 territories, I gave the senate the island of Palma(After I gave them another territory in Spain after taking over Rome) and blocked its port with about 5 or 6 separate fleets so non of their ships could escape. I put a diplomat there and offered them 20,000dn to become a protectorate. Here is the senate, with only a few units and a tiny island village I destroyed for them to settle on. And yet, they said no! Did I offer too little money?

[Peter]

they usually want like 1 million dinarii when i play rtw. And when i got the money i give them and they attack 1-2 turns later......sigh

[fenixal]

Protectorate option is just great tbh. you do not need 1 mill denars 2 make someone a protectorate, you just gotta play your cards wisely. I was playing with germans and this is what i did. Gauls have allways been a problem 2 me harassing my villages and such so i made an alliance with romans and spain so we can attack them from 3 sides.Gauls had the biggest faction tittle (about 10 provinces) but my *alliance* had about 5 full armies attackin them ( romans had 2 full ones i had 2 and spain had 1) we sieged 3 of their cities when they had no armies left 2 defend themselves and were put in a tight spot. I offered them the protectorat option gave them 2000 denars and map information (or somemethin like that ^^) wich they accepted. i got their map info and millitary acces and some income me thinks? The best thing is i got it all for free after they bacame my es. romans and spain had 2 ceasfire gauls becouse they were my protectorates now.Tho gauls didnt have enemys now, but neather were they strong enough 2 break the protectorate with me right away.My next step was 2 make romans attack gauls so gauls couldnt break from my protection eaven if they wanted 2 wich happed just a turn after romans declared war against gauls and i sided with gauls (if that didnt happen i would have ordered them with the option attack faction romans and hoped they would agree, well id pressure them one way or the other ^^).I used gauls as tanks while I attacked romans with my armies. In the middle time spain declared war against gauls wich went 2 my benefit becouse now i was sure gauls wont betray me (i could disband armies that defended me against gauls leaving me with a possibility 2 build more armies 2 attack romas.)After i counquered romans there was a possiblity gauls could rebel, tho now i had more income more teritorry and greater armys .You see when they have benefits from the protectorate they wont end it easily and with the military acces i had from them it was a sinch 2 counquer them as well ^^. Well this ones the longest post i had ever made but hope it helps u utilize the protectorate option in the best way possible (IT AINT USELESS!!) x)

[|Sith| Max]

Two things you might want to consider.
1. 1.3 is outdated
2. you can also kill off the faction and take their lands.

[MrManFreak]

is it me or you guys are answering to an almost 5 year old thread ?

[Miroslav Klose]

Fenixal, you necromancer!

[SuperMan1054]

Two things you might want to consider.
1. 1.3 is outdated
2. you can also kill off the faction and take their lands.

thats the simple way, and it destroys a fraction, i like to preserve factions i like to fight like guals, and the greeks, Pontus i hate, no matter who i play as i build a army and send them against pontus. The pontus ai is annoying.

[jukeness]

The pontus ai is annoying.

You're annoying

[Drustan]

As has been said God knows how many times, the AI for diplomacy on Vanilla RTW is completely bugged. Mods are the only remedy to this problem.

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

As has been said God knows how many times, the AI for diplomacy on Vanilla RTW is completely bugged. Mods are the only remedy to this problem.

Not at all. No mod can change the AI. The diplomacy AI is based on a system of faction relations and reputation, just as in Medieval II, but the developers didn't include a system of displaying it. Check this guy. See his spartan campaign, he made 2 (or 3, I don't remember) protectorates in a single campaign not using force diplomacy. And Rise of Persia is a mod very close to vanilla.

[Luke Evans]

seems to be your first post aswell lol

[Brusilov]

Sometimes you can 'role play' to prop up a failing faction as a buffer between you and another faction.

Given that if you acquire a common border with a faction or extend and existing border with a faction it's simply a matter of time before you go to war. You may yet to be in a position to fight a major faction on another front. It may be easier to simply get your protectorate to fight that war for you or act as a buffer if they're not at war with the other faction.

The unspent money from the protectorates treasury (or a proportion of it) at the end of their turn is added to your treasury. Given the protectorate may be in a weakened conditioned this may not amount to much.

Also, if you do prop up another faction as your protectorate keep and eye on them to see if they become powerful as they may well be at war with you again! Maintain an amry or two near your borders or have one wandering around their territory fighting any rebel armies that appear.

Always keep an eye on the diplomatic messages. If a faction that you were previously at war with allies with one of your allies it is sometimes a sign that when you go back to war with them that your alliance with the other faction will also be broken.....

[Vicious the Conqueror]

In my recent Dacian campaign I became a German protectorate, by accident of sorts, but it was really worthwhile.

The Germans had been invading my homelands for years, so after I beat their asses several times, they come up with their diplomat and offer me to be a Protectorate, so I say, yeah, right, only if you give us 10,000 denarii, to which they surprisingly agree (and I start thinking I should have asked for more).

Anyway, if you know Dacians, you know they have a pretty bad economy, I had already taken the Thracian lands and Byzantium, but, even so, I was struggling to pay for the upkeep of the homeland defense army and the other force with which I barely won Byzantium, so those 10K were like agift from the Gods. I spent that in a third army of Chosen Swordsmen, and Chosen Archers, and some cavalry and went to conquer Macedonia with that. With Thessalonnica alone, I could afford the upkeep of the new army, so when I conquered Larisa and Thermon (owned by the Brutti by then) I was actually making a profit!

The Germans soon, either wisened up or just reacted as they always do, and attacked me, breaking the protectorate.

So to the players, sell yourselves, but not cheap xD

[Benneffect]

Total war Wh***s! Standing on the 'corner' of the map, just waiting to serve another nation for money....

[TheFoolOnTheHill]

I was reading the op and said to myself I could swear that 1.3 is out dated then looked at the date and started to laugh

[Brusilov]

There appears to be a number of members who like to necropost (reviving threads that are over 12 months or more old)......