Conqistador's Works - GREEK GENERAL AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD

[Asgaroth]

Thank you Dark horse spirit!...lol I know that is not a sarissa I wrote the question in a wrong way sorry.The question was-Units that carry sarissa or xyston are both hoplites?-now I have a answer-yes.Yes but difference is in hight-sarissa(from 5 to 7 meters).For example royal pikeman use the sarissa,but hoplites(most of them from greek cities)use the shorter one called dory(Sorry for the wrong information above!).Armoured hoplites(greek cities) carry xystons(about 3,5 to 4 meters)...

The hight is right dont change it for the spartans!

[Conqistador]

No, the sarissa-carriers are the phalangites, both elite or not. The soldiers who use dory afaik are hoplites.

[debux]

Armoured hoplites(greek cities) carry xystons(about 3,5 to 4 meters)...

AFAIK, Xytons were only used by cavalry, as a shorted version of the sarissa (a bit more maneuverable than the sarissa while on horseback, I'd say, nonetheless I still believe it was used with both hands, in contrast to the one hand needed for a dory, for example) to give the advantage over other cavalrymen, that mostly used the normal spear size (between maybe 1,5 to 2,5 meters? Weapons weren't standardized those days).

I can't imagine a hoplite, no matter how armored, to be able to carry such a long spear with one hand, it would be terribly unpractical. If he held it with both hands, he wouldn't be a hoplite anymore (the way a hoplon is held doesn't allow to be able to use the other arm to support the weapon arm, if you know what I'm saying).

[Conqistador]

AFAIK, Xytons were only used by cavalry, as a shorted version of the sarissa (a bit more maneuverable than the sarissa while on horseback, I'd say, nonetheless I still believe it was used with both hands, in contrast to the one hand needed for a dory, for example) to give the advantage over other cavalrymen, that mostly used the normal spear size (between maybe 1,5 to 2,5 meters? Weapons weren't standardized those days).

I can't imagine a hoplite, no matter how armored, to be able to carry such a long spear with one hand, it would be terribly unpractical. If he held it with both hands, he wouldn't be a hoplite anymore (the way a hoplon is held doesn't allow to be able to use the other arm to support the weapon arm, if you know what I'm saying).

I suspected of the xyston but no time to do even a little research...

[Asgaroth]

"Xytons were only used by cavalry"


If you play RTW.open the description of armoured hoplites and read it...

[Conqistador]

But vanilla RTW have almost no historical accuracy!

[Asgaroth]

Correct!...I just say what is written there...Conqistador-that what you say is all here:

http://library.worldhistoria.com/top...st281.html#281

[Conqistador]

Oh ok. But is the dory the weapon.

[medievaldude]

The spear in most eras of warefare was more of a slashing tool, ment to rip and tear, weaken the enmy down for the final assault with a sword. The spears are designed for breaching an enemies defenses and causing flesh wounds and causing demoralization on that way out of the enemies zone of control. The spear has never been a finishing weapon, It is more of a stand off tool.
DHS

Slashing? The simple design of the spear can be used for thrusting, or thrown as a projectile. The spear can always be the finishing weapon, though the sword would usually be the easier to bear.

[Conqistador]

I think the slashing he said were more of a "stun" attack to demoralyze the enemy and then a finnish-it with sword or spear (or both)

[medievaldude]

I think the slashing he said were more of a "stun" attack to demoralyze the enemy and then a finnish-it with sword or spear (or both)

Right ! Please do notify me when you get back on work !

[Dark_horse_spirit]

Your thinking of slashing in the sense of huge swings with a sword, the slashing that I was refering to is the pull back after the stab, spears are designed to penitrate small areas past the enemy, and rip and tear on the way out,Small abrasions and cuts in an opponents skin, getting slashed hundreds of times and your armour weakened in the course of an afternoon has got to be demoralizing causing desencion among the ranks. I think that most spear lines are refered to as the grind lines, the meat and potatoes of an army, The army with the grittiest of spearmen, hoplite or Phalnanx have proven them selves through out history to be a leaders backbone....what do you think?

DHS

[medievaldude]

Your thinking of slashing in the sense of huge swings with a sword, the slashing that I was refering to is the pull back after the stab, spears are designed to penitrate small areas past the enemy, and rip and tear on the way out,Small abrasions and cuts in an opponents skin, getting slashed hundreds of times and your armour weakened in the course of an afternoon has got to be demoralizing causing desencion among the ranks. I think that most spear lines are refered to as the grind lines, the meat and potatoes of an army, The army with the grittiest of spearmen, hoplite or Phalnanx have proven them selves through out history to be a leaders backbone....what do you think?

DHS

Well the slash i tend to think of are short slow/quick precise cuts , In other words well said Comrade!

[Hopit]

could you do theban sacred band and thespian hoplites?
it would be sweet

[Conqistador]

Who knows? When i get back to work, maybe...

[Achea]

Great stuff! +rep

[Milner]

Excellent models, Conqistador ...amazing the athenian hoplite!!!

[Conqistador]

Thank you for the comments. When i go back to home in the weekend, i'll catch up with this... still thinking of a way to smooth the helmets, make them more "rounded"...

[Athenian Strategos]

You go home right now thats an order soldier!!

[Conqistador]

whats the best thracian helmet? to the left the early, the right is the one i made this weekend.